Trickshooter's Wild Instincts Powerset Suggestion!

[Trickshooter]

"What are Wild Instincts?"

 

Well, the set started as me trying to come up with a new Support set, but it just made more sense as an Armor set. From there, I really wanted a set that was a little different from the others we have available. The idea was that your ability to defend yourself didn't necessarily come from superhuman abilities or years of training, but maybe just a lifetime of living in the wilderness. For inspiration, I looked to comic book characters that might fit the theme, such as DC's Vixen or Marvel's Ka-Zar.

 

I hope the idea of the set is fun, because I know it's probably not meta or PvP-friendly to have an armor set that has a pet. 😅

 

Some notes:

 

Effects-wise, I envision activating the toggles to have an effect like Vixen does; that is you activate your toggles and a kind of spirit animal is overlaid on your character animating. For example, you activate Wolf's Endurance and you do the Howl emote while a spirit-looking Wolf model appears over you also howling.

 

For the pet, I would like to see the ability to choose between a feline or canine, and I would probably limit it to that since they have the same "skeleton" so there would be less differences in movement or animation times.

 

Numbers-wise, for a Tanker at level 50 with just SOs, the set would be looking at:

 

Without the pet

~23.4% Def(Melee, Ranged, Area)

43.25% Res(DefDebuff)

~23.4% Res(All but Psi)

~98.5% Regen

~389.178 MaxHP

 

With the pet (and within 10 ft of each other)

~30.9% Def(Melee, Ranged, Area)

43.25% Res(DefDebuff)

~23.4% Res(All but Psi)

~248.5% Regen

~389.178 MaxHP

 

All the numbers below are for a Tanker at level 50. Take a look and let me know what you think!

 

Wild Instincts
Through training or perhaps a life spent in the wilderness, you have learned how to survive and defend yourself like a wild animal! You can move faster, see farther, and heal quicker than the average person and your connection with nature can even afford you an Animal Companion to assist you.

 

 Wildcat's Reflexes

You can move with the reflexes of a wildcat! You more easily evade melee attacks and can avoid being knocked off your feet. You are also able to slightly run faster, jump higher, and resist defense debuffs.

 

Toggle Self: +Def(Melee), +Res(Knockback, DefDebuff), +Speed

 

+15% Def(Melee)
-10 Knockup, Knockback
+21.625% Res(DefDebuff)

+Speed, I don't want to type all that out

Recharge: 2s

Endurance: 0.26/s

 

 

 Improved Constitution

Being tested by the wilderness, your constitution has been improved, granting you increased health regeneration and resistance to Smashing, Lethal and Toxic damage. You will also be slightly resistance to regeneration debuffs. Your Animal Companion will share these effects with you.

 

Auto Self: +Regen, +Res(Smash, Lethal, Toxic, Regen), Special

 

+50% Regeneration
+15% Res(Smashing)
+15% Res(Lethal)
+15% Res(Toxic)
+20% Resistance(Regeneration)

 

 

 Hawk's Vision

Your vision is like a hawk's, able to see farther and react quicker to incoming danger. You can more easily evade ranged and AoE attacks. Your perception and chance to hit are also increased.

 

Toggle Self: +Def(Ranged, Area), +Perception, +ToHit

 

+15% Def(Ranged)
+15% Def(Area)
+5% ToHit
+300% Perception

 

Recharge: 2s

Endurance: 0.26/s

 

 

 Wolf's Endurance

You have the endurance of a wolf, allowing you to withstand attempts to control you, reduce your endurance recovery, or debuff your defense. You also naturally recover endurance faster than normal.

 

Toggle Self: +Res(Hold, Stun, Sleep, Immobilize, Endurance, Recovery, DefDebuff), +Recovery

 

+12.975 Prot(Hold)
+12.975 Prot(Stun)
+12.975 Prot(Sleep)
+12.975 Prot(Immobilize)
+43.25% Res(EndDrain)
+43.25% Res(Recovery)
+21.625% Res(DefDebuff)
+25% Recovery

 

Recharge: 2s

Endurance: 0.26/s

 

 

 Invigorate

You take a moment to reconnect with nature, healing yourself and reducing the cost of your abilities for a short while. If your Animal Companion is nearby, the amount you will be healed will be halved and your Animal Companion will being healed for the difference.

 

Click Self: Heal, Endurance Discount, Special

 

+59.6% EndDiscount
468.5173 Heal

 

Recharge: 120s
Duration: 30s

Endurance: 10.4

 

 

 Ferocity

Embrace the ferocity of the wild, increasing your damage for every nearby foe while this toggle is on. Your foes will have reduced chances tohit just from being near you in this state. You will also gain some resistance to fear while this toggle is on.

 

Toggle PBAoE Self: +DMG(All), +Res(Fear), Foe: -ToHit

 

+7.5% Str(Lethal) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Smashing) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Fire) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Cold) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Energy) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Negative Energy) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Psionic) Does not stack
+7.5% Str(Toxic) Does not stack
+4.25% Str(Lethal)
+4.25% Str(Smashing)
+4.25% Str(Fire)
+4.25% Str(Cold)
+4.25% Str(Energy)
+4.25% Str(Negative Energy)
+4.25% Str(Psionic)
+4.25% Str(Toxic)
+12.975 Prot(Fear) Does not stack

 

-10.5% ToHit Debuff

 

Recharge: 10s
Max Targets: 10

Endurance: 0.26/s

 

 

 Weathered Hide

Exposure to nature has toughened you, effectively increasing your Max HP and resistance to Fire, Cold, Energy and Negative Energy damage. Your Animal Companion will share these effects with you.

 

Auto Self: +MaxHP, +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative), Special

 

+187.4 Maximum HitPoints
+15% Res(Fire)
+15% Res(Cold)
+15% Res(Energy)
+15% Res(Negative Energy)

 

 

 Relentless

Should you fall in battle, your relentless nature will allow you to revive yourself. You will revive with most of your Hit Points and half your Endurance and be protected from XP Debt for 90 seconds. You will also have 15 seconds of immunity to most damage. Nearby foes will be terrified by the sight and suffer lowered defenses. Call of the Wild will be instantly recharged when you use this power.

 

Click Self: Rez, Special, Foe: Fear (Mag 4) -Def

 

1405.5518 Heal
+50 Endurance
+11.92s Fear (Mag 4)
+10.5% Defense Debuff

 

Recharge: 300s

Duration: 30s (just the -Def)

Endurance: 0

 

 

 Call of the Wild

You can summon an Animal Companion to aid you! Your animal companion can only bite and scratch at enemies, but your bond provides you both with buffs as long as you remain close to each other. While your Animal Companion is nearby, you will both have increased Regeneration, a bonus to all Defenses, and increased Damage (These effects cannot be enhanced). Your Animal Companion will benefit from the buffs from your Auto powers and receive half the healing from your Invigorate.

 

Summon Animal Companion: +Regen, +Def(All), +Damage, Special

 

Animal Companion
Bite - Melee Foe: Moderate Damage(Lethal) DoT(Lethal)

Scratch - Melee Foe: Minor Damage(Lethal) -Resistance
Claw - Melee Foe: Minor Damage(Lethal) Chance for Knockdown
Resistance - Auto Self: +Def(Melee, Ranged, AoE) +Res(Hold, Stun, Sleep, Immobilize, Fear) Special
Nature's Bond - Auto Self: Special

 

Nature's Bond

+150% Regeneration - Reduced by 50% for every 10 ft away
+7.5% Def(Melee) - Reduced by 2.5% for every 10 ft away
+7.5% Def(Ranged) - Reduced by 2.5% for every 10 ft away
+7.5% Def(AoE) - Reduced by 2.5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Lethal) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Smashing) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Fire) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Cold) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Energy) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Negative Energy) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Psionic) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away
+15% Str(Toxic) - Reduced by 5% for every 10 ft away

 

Recharge: 240s

Duration: 120s

Endurance: 26

[Razor Cure]

Sold. I also dont know if its fair to have a pet..but it sounds awesome, and I love the idea of Spirit ANimal type animatons when you do stuff. This set and savage melee, on a scrapper? Yes please.

[Rudra]

This is so ridiculously overpowered.... Let's review:

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Wildcat's Reflexes

This starting power is granting the character 15% melee defense, Mag 10 KB/KU protection, 21.625% Defense Debuff resistance, and apparently +run speed, +fly speed, +jump speed, and +recharge. Assuming this is a defense set like SR, SR's closest power is Focused Fighting which only grants 18.5% melee defense, Mag 12.975 confusion protection, and 17.3% Defense Debuff resistance.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Improved Constitution

This alternate starting power at T2 grants +50% regeneration plus +15% damage resist to smashing, lethal and toxic damage plus 20% regeneration debuff resistance at 0 END cost to the character as an auto power. Assuming this is a resist set, Invulnerability's closest power is Resist Physical Damage which only grants 10% damage resist to smashing and lethal damage plus 25% Defense Debuff resist. Or if you compare it to Temp Invulnerability which costs endurance to use, 30% smashing and lethal damage resist plus nothing else.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Hawk's Vision

This toggle power grants the character +15% ranged and AoE defense plus a 5% ToHit buff plus a 300% Perception boost which is a 1,500 feet increase in Perception. There is no closest comparison for power because this power is so over the top it is combining no less than 3 whole powers from other sets. And that is ignoring that the 1,500 feet perception boost means even Flash Arrow needs to have 5 hits on your character from different sources to actually blind you. Focused Accuracy only gives +300 feet (+60%), not +300%.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Wolf's Endurance

This one at least doesn't seem too bad, still overly strong for sheer number of effects since the mez protections are still the same as other sets.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Invigorate

I have no complaints about this power.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Ferocity

I have no idea how to read this power. Are you granting +7.5% all damage buff, +4.25% all damage buff, or +11.75% all damage buff despite the +7.5% stating it does not stack? Also, at -10.5% ToHit debuff, this power far outstrips Willpower's -3.5% ToHit debuff and Dark Armor's -5%.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Weathered Hide

And again here you have an auto power that grants +15% damage resist, this time to 4 damage types. Comparing this to Invulnerability's Resist Energies, you are granting 5% more damage resist than Invulnerability does to twice as many damage sources. And while you lose the 25% END debuff resist, you counter that with a permanent max HP boost.

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Relentless

What do you mean that the character will be immune to most damage for 15 seconds? Is the character effectively untouchable for a full 15 seconds but able to fight enemies that entire time? (Edit again: And a Mag 4 Fear for 11.92 seconds quashes a Darkness Control Controller's Fear effect, which is only Mag 3.) (Edit yet again: Other rezzes make your character untouchable for 15 seconds, not immune to most forms of damage for 15 seconds. If you are saying the same thing, that rezzing simply protects you for 15 seconds like other rezzes, then I apologize for over-reacting.)

 

14 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

 Call of the Wild

And now we are back to the pet. This is an armor set, so why is there a pet in it? And why is that pet better than the pets Controllers, Dominators, and Masterminds get? This pet 3 attacks! MM pets don't even get 3 attacks unless the Mastermind upgrades them. And worse, this pet passively boosts the PC's regeneration, all damage, and all positional defenses while within 30 feet of the character. This is just all kinds of wrong.

 

So I oppose this set vehemently. It needs to be reworked to be less god mode and fit better into the game.

 

Edit:

Summary of this set's base abilities:

15% all damage resist except psi'.

15% all positional defenses (22.5% all positional defenses with pet)

43.25% Defense Debuff resist, which is not stated whether or not enhancements boost this.

20% regeneration debuff resist, which is not stated whether or not enhancements boost this.

Mag 10 KB/KU protection

Mag 12.975 Hold, Stun, Sleep, Immobilization, and Fear protection

+7.5/4.25/11.75% all damage buff (+22.5/19.25/26.75% all damage buff with pet)

-10.5% enemy ToHit

59.6% endurance discount

+68.25% recovery buff

+50% regeneration buff (+200% with pet)

+5% ToHit buff

+300% (1,500 feet) Perception buff

unstated buff to all speeds, presumably running, flying, jumping, and power recharge

Possibly untouchable while still able to attack/harm foes for 15 seconds after rezzing in addition to+10.5% defense debuff and Mag 4 fear effect to enemies for 30 seconds after rezzing.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 03:34 AM by Rudra

[Trickshooter]

46 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This is so ridiculously overpowered.... Let's review:

 

I disagree, and ask that you keep in mind that sets aren't valued on power-to-power comparisons, but on the set as a whole.

 

47 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This starting power is granting the character 15% melee defense, Mag 10 KB/KU protection, 21.625% Defense Debuff resistance, and apparently +run speed, +fly speed, +jump speed, and +recharge. Assuming this is a defense set like SR, SR's closest power is Focused Fighting which only grants 18.5% melee defense, Mag 12.975 confusion protection, and 17.3% Defense Debuff resistance.

 

It doesn't give +Recharge. For the comparison you gave, FF gives 3.5% more defense, more confuse protection than KB protection this set gets, and an enhanceable 17.3% defense debuff resistance. Wild Instincts' defense debuff resistance is not enhanceable. I didn't put that because no set except Super Reflexes gets that benefit, not even Ninjitsu. Anyway, for all those benefits FF has, Wild Instincts Melee toggle gets a +Speed buff, which I didn't include a value for because it's annoying how many things you gotta list for +Speed. Assume about as much +Speed as the other sets get in their Auto powers. And again, does not include +Recharge.

 

52 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This alternate starting power at T2 grants +50% regeneration plus +15% damage resist to smashing, lethal and toxic damage plus 20% regeneration debuff resistance at 0 END cost to the character as an auto power. Assuming this is a resist set, Invulnerability's closest power is Resist Physical Damage which only grants 10% damage resist to smashing and lethal damage plus 25% Defense Debuff resist. Or if you compare it to Temp Invulnerability which costs endurance to use, 30% smashing and lethal damage resist plus nothing else.

 

This isn't a resist set, and neither is Invulnerability really, not entirely. Yeah it has some resistance and then a lot to smashing and lethal, but it's more consistently a defense set. I mean, Tough Hide and Invincibility together can give MORE Defense than this set even gets outside of being within 10 ft of the pet. But anyway, closest power is honestly gonna be more like... True Grit or Inexhaustable.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.shield_defense.true_grit&at=tanker

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.bio_organic_armor.inexhaustible&at=tanker

 

And it falls pretty in line with them? Even Tough Hide in Invulnerability gives Defense to 6 different types and the largest flat defense debuff resistance in all the armor sets, I think. Or Permafrost from Ice gives 30% Res(Cold), 12.5% Res(Fire), and 5% Res(Lethal, Smashing, Energy, Negative, Psionic, and Toxic) on top of a 20% slow resistance.

 

And just to be clear, the Regen debuff resistance is not enhanceable, not sure they ever are.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This toggle power grants the character +15% ranged and AoE defense plus a 5% ToHit buff plus a 300% Perception boost which is a 1,500 feet increase in Perception. There is no closest comparison for power because this power is so over the top it is combining no less than 3 whole powers from other sets. And that is ignoring that the 1,500 feet perception boost means even Flash Arrow needs to have 5 hits on your character from different sources to actually blind you. Focused Accuracy only gives +300 feet (+60%), not +300%.

 

Tankers don't get Ninjitsu, but if they did: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=stalker_defense.ninjitsu.danger_sense&at=tanker

 

On a Tanker, Danger Sense would give more defense, the same amount of Perception (it's meant to be 300ft, not 300%) and defense debuff resistance instead of ToHit. It's not that out of line for an armor set.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I have no idea how to read this power. Are you granting +7.5% all damage buff, +4.25% all damage buff, or +11.75% all damage buff despite the +7.5% stating it does not stack? Also, at -10.5% ToHit debuff, this power far outstrips Willpower's -3.5% ToHit debuff and Dark Armor's -5%.

 

It's the same as most taunt auras that give buffs to the player. The first 7,5% you get and it doesn't stack with itself. The 4.25% stacks with itself up to 10 targets, so a total of 42.5 + 7.5 = +50% Damage at 10 foes, less than Against All Odds (which goes up to 65%. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.shield_defense.against_all_odds&at=tanker

 

The ToHit might be too high, but the base value falls in line with other set's -Defense and -Damage debuffs.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

And again here you have an auto power that grants +15% damage resist, this time to 4 damage types. Comparing this to Invulnerability's Resist Energies, you are granting 5% more damage resist than Invulnerability does to twice as many damage sources. And while you lose the 25% END debuff resist, you counter that with a permanent max HP boost.

 

Once again, True Grit does more: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.shield_defense.true_grit&at=tanker

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

What do you mean that the character will be immune to most damage for 15 seconds? Is the character effectively untouchable for a full 15 seconds but able to fight enemies that entire time? (Edit again: And a Mag 4 Fear for 11.92 seconds quashes a Darkness Control Controller's Fear effect, which is only Mag 3.) (Edit yet again: Other rezzes make your character untouchable for 15 seconds, not immune to most forms of damage for 15 seconds. If you are saying the same thing, that rezzing simply protects you for 15 seconds like other rezzes, then I apologize for over-reacting.)

 

It's almost exactly how all self rezzes are worded? https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.regeneration.revive&at=scrapper And to the best of my knowledge they all have the same 15 second window of damage immunity to give you time to retoggle on all your powers.

 

And if you think a Mag 4 fear on a 300 second timer is OP, check out the Mag 30 Stun on Soul Transfer: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.dark_armor.soul_transfer&at=scrapper

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

And now we are back to the pet. This is an armor set, so why is there a pet in it? And why is that pet better than the pets Controllers, Dominators, and Masterminds get? This pet 3 attacks! MM pets don't even get 3 attacks unless the Mastermind upgrades them. And worse, this pet passively boosts the PC's regeneration, all damage, and all positional defenses while within 30 feet of the character. This is just all kinds of wrong.

 

I mean, it can lose an attack, it's not that big a deal. The gimmick is the bond power. It only has attacks for theme. As for the buffs, 30 ft is the minimum for the smallest amount of buffs, those effects get to the listed values only when you're within 10 ft of each other, and none of them are enhanceable. The set has a pet for the same reason Shield and Fire have attacks in their sets: for flavor! I mean, I'm just trying to be creative here, the people want more armor sets and there's only so many ways to end a set with a crashing panic mode.

 

Other little things:

 

The +Recovery this set gets in a toggle is less +Recovery than other sets get in Auto powers

 

The +Regen this set gets in its passive is less than the +Regen in other set's Auto powers, and Rise to the Challenge can give more +Regen than this set gets in it's 2 +Regen powers.

 

The Res(Regen Debuff) is less than other sets too.

 

Anyway, you're free to think it's OP, I disagree, but maybe you'll give it another look with these comparisons.

 

 

[CrusaderDroid]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This starting power is granting the character 15% melee defense, Mag 10 KB/KU protection, 21.625% Defense Debuff resistance, and apparently +run speed, +fly speed, +jump speed, and +recharge. Assuming this is a defense set like SR, SR's closest power is Focused Fighting which only grants 18.5% melee defense, Mag 12.975 confusion protection, and 17.3% Defense Debuff resistance.

This isn't really a helpful post in general, but this is a repeating pattern in your post - if all you're doing is restating the effects without actually explaining what's wrong, there's pretty much no way the poor guy's going to know what they actually did wrong.

 

In this case: while the power's kinda overloaded on extras, the intended focus - the melee defense - is on par with Tanker Shield Defense's Deflection. It's a defense set, so it could use some DDR - just maybe not at that value if it's going to keep the movement speed bonus too.

 

(This also doesn't explicitly state it grants recharge, either.)

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This alternate starting power at T2 grants +50% regeneration plus +15% damage resist to smashing, lethal and toxic damage plus 20% regeneration debuff resistance at 0 END cost to the character as an auto power. Assuming this is a resist set, Invulnerability's closest power is Resist Physical Damage which only grants 10% damage resist to smashing and lethal damage plus 25% Defense Debuff resist. Or if you compare it to Temp Invulnerability which costs endurance to use, 30% smashing and lethal damage resist plus nothing else.

Case in point: I don't see how this is supposed to be bad. The set is primary defense with more or less a token amount of resists split between two powers. It really isn't the end of the world if this one power is better than Resist Physical Damage if the rest of the set can't keep up with Invulnerability's overall well-rounded defenses and resists.

 

Like, if we accept the premise that we can't have any individual power be better than any other individual power in another set, even factoring in overall set strength, we basically can't implement any new sets without making them hideously underpowered and consequently unfun.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This toggle power grants the character +15% ranged and AoE defense plus a 5% ToHit buff plus a 300% Perception boost which is a 1,500 feet increase in Perception. There is no closest comparison for power because this power is so over the top it is combining no less than 3 whole powers from other sets. And that is ignoring that the 1,500 feet perception boost means even Flash Arrow needs to have 5 hits on your character from different sources to actually blind you. Focused Accuracy only gives +300 feet (+60%), not +300%.

You cannot possibly be trying to sell me on Perception being the game-breaker here. Never mind that people in your team will run Tactics (which grants +Perception Debuff Resist anyways), the amount of times having a big Perception range is going to be helpful in PvE could probably be counted on one hand. Since you can have separate effects for PvP, you can nerf or remove the +Perception in PvP anyways.

 

Once you get past that, it's Shield Defense's Battle Agility, except with +to-hit instead of +DDR. Not exactly the harbinger of doom here - the defense values line up just fine with Tanker's Shield Defense. Fairly certain all these numbers are running off Shield Defense anyways.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This one at least doesn't seem too bad, still overly strong for sheer number of effects since the mez protections are still the same as other sets.

Your next toon should be a Shield Defense toon, then. Shield Defense's Active Defense covers all of these debuffs, and more, including Terrorize, Confusion, and Knockback. This is not overly strong - you're just missing context on Shield Defense.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

And again here you have an auto power that grants +15% damage resist, this time to 4 damage types. Comparing this to Invulnerability's Resist Energies, you are granting 5% more damage resist than Invulnerability does to twice as many damage sources. And while you lose the 25% END debuff resist, you counter that with a permanent max HP boost.

It's True Grit. It's literally the same effects as True Grit. Shield Defense, again. You're comparing the wrong sets here.

 

Like, my actual critique here is that the set is almost a palette swap of Shield Defense, now.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

And now we are back to the pet. This is an armor set, so why is there a pet in it? And why is that pet better than the pets Controllers, Dominators, and Masterminds get? This pet 3 attacks! MM pets don't even get 3 attacks unless the Mastermind upgrades them. And worse, this pet passively boosts the PC's regeneration, all damage, and all positional defenses while within 30 feet of the character. This is just all kinds of wrong.

I dunno, maybe because people will actually use this instead of the typical T9 powers that have horrific debilitating crashes that everyone skips?

 

It's not even good, either. No AoE, no mez beyond a chance for knockdown - this thing's only output is ST damage and a buff to you, except that it can't draw aggro off of you. Since it siphons half your healing, you're basically handicapping yourself by summoning it - any time you need your self-heal, you've lost half of it to your pet that can't even peel for you. I still like it because it's unique and different compared to all the other sets. It's still bad - your team can do ST damage just fine, and while -res is always appreciated, you're more likely to have -res from your primary or epic pool through Achilles' Heel instead.

 

The set's not OP. It just needs to not be Shield Defense with a few values swapped around. I think Relentless is the easiest thing to excise - after that, I wonder if you can split up the mez protection from Wolf's Endurance amongst other powers to make room for another new power. I think you want more enemy-facing debuffs on this set to really make it pop.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

It doesn't give +Recharge. For the comparison you gave, FF gives 3.5% more defense, more confuse protection than KB protection this set gets, and an enhanceable 17.3% defense debuff resistance. Wild Instincts' defense debuff resistance is not enhanceable. I didn't put that because no set except Super Reflexes gets that benefit, not even Ninjitsu. Anyway, for all those benefits FF has, Wild Instincts Melee toggle gets a +Speed buff, which I didn't include a value for because it's annoying how many things you gotta list for +Speed. Assume about as much +Speed as the other sets get in their Auto powers. And again, does not include +Recharge.

I appreciate that it doesn't give +recharge, but you need to state that. +Speed in many powers boosts all speed aspects, and power recharge is one of them. Also, if something is not enhance able but it can be in a comparable power, then you need to state such, And what is FF? If you are talking about the Force Field support set, it isn't comparable.

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

But anyway, closest power is honestly gonna be more like... True Grit

Okay, I missed True Grit and Inexhaustible, but that means you are scaling this set to rival top tier armor sets. Rather than median.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

Even Tough Hide in Invulnerability gives Defense to 6 different types and the largest flat defense debuff resistance in all the armor sets, I think.

Tough Hide is a tier 8 power, not a tier 2. And it only gives +5% defense to your 15%.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

And just to be clear, the Regen debuff resistance is not enhanceable, not sure they ever are.

Then please state that.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

Perception (it's meant to be 300ft, not 300%)

That is much more acceptable.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

It's the same as most taunt auras that give buffs to the player. The first 7,5% you get and it doesn't stack with itself. The 4.25% stacks with itself up to 10 targets, so a total of 42.5 + 7.5 = +50% Damage at 10 foes, less than Against All Odds (which goes up to 65%. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.shield_defense.against_all_odds&at=tanker

 

Against All Odds caps at 10 targets like any other Tanker/Brute aura. With the first target giving the biggest boost and the next 9 giving less. Your math has the aura at 11 targets of effect. So Against All Odds caps at +59.5% (10% + [5.5% x 9]). Thank you for clarifying what you mean though. (So this power would be +45.75% before pet.) (Edit: My mistake, you are correct. Both Shield Defense and your set have +65% damage buff at max values. SD = 5.5x10 + 10 = 65. WI = 4.25x10 + 7.5 + 15 = 65.)

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

The ToHit might be too high, but the base value falls in line with other set's -Defense and -Damage debuffs.

Your set is 3x Willpower and better than 2x Dark Armor. That is well beyond too high.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

Once again, True Grit does more

Okay, I can grant that it matches True Grit. (True Grit does not do more however. It does the exact same.)

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

It's almost exactly how all self rezzes are worded? https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.regeneration.revive&at=scrapper And to the best of my knowledge they all have the same 15 second window of damage immunity to give you time to retoggle on all your powers.

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Other rezzes make your character untouchable for 15 seconds, not immune to most forms of damage for 15 seconds. If you are saying the same thing, that rezzing simply protects you for 15 seconds like other rezzes, then I apologize for over-reacting.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

And if you think a Mag 4 fear on a 300 second timer is OP, check out the Mag 30 Stun on Soul Transfer: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.dark_armor.soul_transfer&at=scrapper

I'm looking at Tankers for comparison, but they have the same. However, I will not compare a Stun effect to a Fear effect. And your Fear effect dwarfs a control AT's Fear as well. Make it Mag 3 and I can feel better that at least the Controller has a longer duration.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

I mean, it can lose an attack, it's not that big a deal. The gimmick is the bond power. It only has attacks for theme. As for the buffs, 30 ft is the minimum for the smallest amount of buffs, those effects get to the listed values only when you're within 10 ft of each other, and none of them are enhanceable. The set has a pet for the same reason Shield and Fire have attacks in their sets: for flavor! I mean, I'm just trying to be creative here, the people want more armor sets and there's only so many ways to end a set with a crashing panic mode.

It needs to lose the pet, not an attack. This is an armor set. It should not have a pet. Especially a pet that passively boosts the summoner's damage for all damage types, boosts the summoner's defense against all position types, and boosts the summoner's regeneration. And that is without considering that the pet also gets inherent defense to all positional attacks that can be further boosted with enhancements, resists mezzes which MM henchmen class pets cannot, and has an unstated special resistance.

 

4 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

The +Recovery this set gets in a toggle is less +Recovery than other sets get in Auto powers

It also gets a 59.6% endurance discount. That boosts it well above. (Edit: For example, with a 59.6% endurance discount, that 0.26/s END toggle is actually 0.11/s before you even start slotting any enhancements. Even the Cardiac Core Paragon Alpha incarnate power only gives a 45% endurance reduction. And you can still take that Alpha with this set for a total 104.6% global endurance reduction. That makes all your powers cost nada to use. Though I think it will cap around 90% endurance reduction, so it may as well cost nada.)

 

So no, I still think it is OP. You are trying to make a set that rivals the best armor sets in the game: Shield Defense and Bio Armor, instead of pitching a median set that if played right works well. Even your hole against Psi' is easily plugged. You can get 30% Psi' resist just from Impervium Armor and another 5% from Aegis. And the pet being present at all in an armor set is not acceptable to me. Let alone a pet that boosts your damage, defense, and regeneration while also fighting alongside you.

Edited Saturday at 08:46 AM by Rudra

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

This starting power is granting the character 15% melee defense, Mag 10 KB/KU protection, 21.625% Defense Debuff resistance, and apparently +run speed, +fly speed, +jump speed, and +recharge. Assuming this is a defense set like SR, SR's closest power is Focused Fighting which only grants 18.5% melee defense, Mag 12.975 confusion protection, and 17.3% Defense Debuff resistance.

This isn't really a helpful post in general, but this is a repeating pattern in your post - if all you're doing is restating the effects without actually explaining what's wrong, there's pretty much no way the poor guy's going to know what they actually did wrong.

Then allow me to clarify. This is a T1 power that boosts melee defense, protects against all KB/KU until late game, resists defense debuffs, and boosts all the character's speeds. It needs to at least lose the speed boost, though lowering some values would also be appreciated.

 

3 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

Case in point: I don't see how this is supposed to be bad. The set is primary defense with more or less a token amount of resists split between two powers.

It's hardly token. Except for S/L, Invulnerability only grants +10% damage resist at base value. This set gives +15%. With MUCH better defenses. Before you even get to the pet boosting defenses.

 

3 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

You cannot possibly be trying to sell me on Perception being the game-breaker here.

Actually, yes, I am. +1,500 feet of Perception puts this armor set beyond absolutely everything else that can be found in the game. Even if you combine powers that add +Perception. This armor set is immune to blind effects whereas nothing else is. That the author meant +300 feet, makes it more palatable.

 

3 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

It's not even good, either. No AoE, no mez beyond a chance for knockdown - this thing's only output is ST damage and a buff to you, except that it can't draw aggro off of you. Since it siphons half your healing, you're basically handicapping yourself by summoning it - any time you need your self-heal, you've lost half of it to your pet that can't even peel for you. I still like it because it's unique and different compared to all the other sets. It's still bad - your team can do ST damage just fine, and while -res is always appreciated, you're more likely to have -res from your primary or epic pool through Achilles' Heel instead.

 

You still have the heal, plus you have the ability to heal your pet without having to dip into the Medicine pool. Which is something my Dominators wish they could do. You lose half your healing from that one power because your pet gets the other half? Oh no. Since this set can easily be built for max defense and higher resists except for S/L than Invulnerability, not getting a full heal, which is still more healing than some sets get (Shield Defense, Super Reflexes, and Willpower), is hardly a loss.

 

Edit: As for the pet itself, it has a DoT to go with its main attack, it reduces target's damage resists, and it knocks down enemies. On top of boosting your damage, before the -damage resist effect, boosting your defense, and boosting your regeneration. That is hardly a "not even good" pet.

 

Edit: And if you want to compare it to Shield Defense? Then here you go:

                              SD                                   WI (with pet)

Melee Defense       20%                                 22.5%

Ranged Defense     20%                                 22.5%

AoE Defense          20%                                 22.5%

Smashing resist      15%                                15%

Lethal Resist           15%                                15%

Fire Resist              15%                                 15%

Cold Resist             15%                                 15%

Energy Resist          15%                                15%

Negative Resist       15%                                15%

Toxic Resist             15%                                15%

Psionic Resist          0%                                  0%

Regeneration         +0%                              +200%

Recovery                +0%                               +68.25%

END Discount         0%                                  59.6%

Damage                  +65%                             +65%

Perception             +0 feet                            +300 feet

ToHit                      +0%                                 +5%

ToHit Debuff           -0%                                  -10.5%

Damage Debuff        -7%                                0%

Mez Resists           12.975                              12.975

DEF Debuff Resist  56.23%                             43.25%

Regen Debuff Resist   0%                               20%

Recharge                 30%                                0%

Movement              +0%                                +unstated higher than 0%

Attack Pets              0                                      1

Heals                       No                                   Yes

Limited Attack Sets  Yes                                  No

 

And you still think the set isn't OP? It stomps Shield Defense.

Edited Saturday at 08:41 AM by Rudra

[CrusaderDroid]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Edit: And if you want to compare it to Shield Defense? Then here you go:

Huh, nice summary that proves my point for me - it's too close to Shield Defense, so it should get some changes that move it away from Shield Defense. It definitely shouldn't be reliant on the pet to bring so much defense - the pet starts off with 50% uptime on its base recharge, and while it can't draw aggro, it can still die or aggro something away from you, which lowers all those bonuses with the pet. You also really don't want to slot the pet with anything but recharge, and you can't boost its staying power by any means, so once all the big AoE stuff comes out your pet dies fast and takes a chunk of your defenses with it.

 

You also don't play Shield Defense, and it shows - Grant Cover doesn't work the way you think it does. It grants defense debuff resistance and recharge resistance (Shield Defense does not get +recharge) to your team, which is both unique and incredibly powerful - recharge resist is nice, but giving your own team DDR of all things goes a long way in keeping everyone else alive when they can build or gain defense but can't build DDR. That it also grants a whopping 11.25% defense (assuming Tanker) to the rest of the team is incomparable amongst armor sets - Shield Defense is absolutely amazing as a set because it's the only armor set that buffs your team, and it does so to a huge effect with just one power.

 

You've also left out Phalanx Defense, which buffs your own defense for every ally nearby. Even one ally increases your defense past this Wild Instincts set WITH the pet - it's a 3% increase in defense. Your comparison assumes a solo player, which doesn't mean much of anything when so much of the content revolves around teams. If you have even just 3 teammates in range, Phalanx Defense adds +9% defense, bringing Shield Defense to 29% defense all around, while Grant Cover returns 11.25% defense to the team to keep them alive longer.

 

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

As for the pet itself, it has a DoT to go with its main attack, it reduces target's damage resists, and it knocks down enemies. On top of boosting your damage, before the -damage resist effect, boosting your defense, and boosting your regeneration. That is hardly a "not even good" pet.

It has a chance to knock down enemies, a DoT is not particularly meaningful damage by itself, and while the resist reduction is nice, that's about the only thing that can keep it relevant. It's still a pet that wants to engage in melee on a set that can only provide it some 25% resistance. Unlike Masterminds, the set has no way to boost this pet's damage or survivability with a support set. Unlike Controllers and Dominators, the rest of the set isn't set up to make enemies unable to fight effectively.

 

It isn't that having a pet in an armor set is inherently bad. It's that this pet is borderline useless - it's tying up part of your survival package to staying alive and wants to be slotted for maximum effect, but by definition you can't do anything to boost its staying power, it doesn't come with anything that helps it stay alive (ranged attacks, debuffs, self-buffs), and the -RES power means you want to let this thing go loose and attack your target instead of staying next to you and buffing you. As a bonus: all the DDR is on toggles, not the auto powers, so the pet, despite having +defense, has nothing to protect it from defense debuffs. It needs a total rework - thematically, having your pet wolf/tiger/panther/eagle get in there and fight alongside you is awesome, but it's so easy to kill and leaves you with a large gap in your defenses when it dies.

 

Specifically: You lose -7.5% defense if your pet dies, is on cooldown, or is more than 30 feet away from you. This drops the set's defense below Shield Defense in your comparison.

 

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

And you still think the set isn't OP?

It isn't OP. Even if it was, at least it'd be playable and enjoyable. It's a predominantly PvE focused game - unlike PvP, where OP picks tilt the meta into something unenjoyable, the worst thing that happens here is that Tankers with this set get picked a little bit more often if you need to choose between two Tankers for a team slot. On an active enough server, the passed over Tanker is getting to play anyways, and on a smaller server like Reunion, you don't really get a choice on the Tankers to begin with - you take what you can get.

 

It's also not generally a difficult game to begin with. Buff sets take everyone up to near godly levels with stacking resists and defenses, and this is before we get into many toons that can +4/x8 solo. If the set was OP, it's not really much of a bump to anything - even without incarnates, the IO system can get a lot of characters to a pretty OP state. About the only thing that would make this a little silly is if it could trivialize Advanced Mode content - which it can't, that damn pet is going to die horribly while eating your heals, and the set isn't bringing any powerful enemy debuffs or large amounts of +absorb or damage buffs.

 

About the only argument you can make is that the pet helps when you solo. Cool. I'm glad the set can at least take care of itself when you can't or don't want to find a team.

 

Otherwise, most of the points where the set excels (+regen, +regen resist, +perception) don't really mean much, and the major points that do matter generally fall short of Shield Defense. It needs some work to get it away from Shield Defense and offer something unique and new beyond the pet.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

You've also left out Phalanx Defense, which buffs your own defense for every ally nearby.

No, I didn't. I left off any and all teammates. I am doing a straight set to set comparison without regard to whether on a team or not. (Edit: Just what the set itself brings to the character.)

 

4 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

It has a chance to knock down enemies, a DoT is not particularly meaningful damage by itself, and while the resist reduction is nice, that's about the only thing that can keep it relevant. It's still a pet that wants to engage in melee on a set that can only provide it some 25% resistance. Unlike Masterminds, the set has no way to boost this pet's damage or survivability with a support set. Unlike Controllers and Dominators, the rest of the set isn't set up to make enemies unable to fight effectively.

It is still a pet. That means the character is effectively launching 2 attacks at a time, 1from the character itself and another from the pet. That boosts your damage output regardless of whether it is doing ST damage or AoE damage. That is what makes MMs dangerous, are their henchmen class pets which are still weaker than the Controller and Dominator pet class pets. For an AT, say Scrapper, that already does excellent damage on its own. And then you still have the pet fortifying the character's damage output passively even further boosting your damage while also reducing the target's damage resistance to all damage types even further boosting your damage output. And you get that benefit on top of anything you may slot to add -damage resist to your attacks or that is already built into your attacks. This is a proposed armor set, a pet has absolutely no place in it. Especially not when it also outperforms MM, Controller, and Dominator pets. And it only has a 50% uptime from recharge?! Crab Spiders, as an Epic AT, have a 900 second recharge with 240 second of use for Call Reinforcements and a 600 second recharge with 240 second duration for the Spiderlings. Underling class pets, not even pet class. And this armor set has their pet available out the box far more frequently. You don't even need to focus on building recharge into the pet to make it perma. Hasten + 1 recharge generic IO gets you below 120 seconds of recharge on a 120 second duration pet. Or just some global recharge reduction from procs and set bonuses + a pet set gets that done. (Edit: Which lets you boost the pet's capabilities or simply ignore it for being perma and focus on your other abilities.)

 

4 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

It isn't that having a pet in an armor set is inherently bad. It's that this pet is borderline useless - it's tying up part of your survival package to staying alive and wants to be slotted for maximum effect, but by definition you can't do anything to boost its staying power, it doesn't come with anything that helps it stay alive (ranged attacks, debuffs, self-buffs), and the -RES power means you want to let this thing go loose and attack your target instead of staying next to you and buffing you. As a bonus: all the DDR is on toggles, not the auto powers, so the pet, despite having +defense, has nothing to protect it from defense debuffs. It needs a total rework - thematically, having your pet wolf/tiger/panther/eagle get in there and fight alongside you is awesome, but it's so easy to kill and leaves you with a large gap in your defenses when it dies.

Your argument that the pet in this set is bad is like arguing that the nuke in a Blaster's set is bad. This pet is available for Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Tankers, and Sentinels as part of their armor set. And it is there at zero cost to the character in regards to that armor set's capabilities. It actually fortifies the armor set's capabilities while also fortifying the characters' damage, regeneration, and defense. And all it does is cost the character half its heal. A heal that it does not even remotely need because of how high the set's defenses are before you even get to the armor set debuffing every enemy in melee range's ToHit by -10.5% before enhancements. This set is untouchable. And on the off chance the set is hit? It still has equal armor to Shield Defense plus 200% regeneration and a heal. And the pet is adding to 3 of those elements beyond having 3 attacks of its own and also being evasive to all positional attacks.

 

4 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

It isn't OP. Even if it was, at least it'd be playable and enjoyable.

And with that, there is no point to discussing this with you. You obviously want OP sets.

 

Edited Saturday at 05:54 PM by Rudra

[Trickshooter]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

I appreciate that it doesn't give +recharge, but you need to state that. +Speed in many powers boosts all speed aspects, and power recharge is one of them. Also, if something is not enhance able but it can be in a comparable power, then you need to state such, And what is FF? If you are talking about the Force Field support set, it isn't comparable.

 

I didn't list it because it's not listed that way in any power. If a power gives +Recharge, it says +Recharge, so I didn't say +Recharge. And FF is Focused Fighting, from Super Reflexes, the power you were comparing.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

Okay, I missed True Grit and Inexhaustible, but that means you are scaling this set to rival top tier armor sets. Rather than median.

 

No, I have no mind for meta, I use other sets as the boundaries, specifically trying to stay in the middle. I don't think of True Grit and Inexhaustible as like, very powerful abilities in top tier sets. They're just modern sets, which frequently try to spread affects across multiple powers, instead of the launch sets which tend to pile all of one or two defense or resistance types in to one power.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

Tough Hide is a tier 8 power, not a tier 2. And it only gives +5% defense to your 15%.

 

Okay, but tier 8 is just level 22, not even half way to level 50. Ultimately, tiers don't really matter, it's the set as a whole. I'll post some comparisons in a bit.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then please state that.

 

Why would I though? As far as I know, there is no set where Res(regen) is enhanceable?

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

Against All Odds caps at 10 targets like any other Tanker/Brute aura. With the first target giving the biggest boost and the next 9 giving less. Your math has the aura at 11 targets of effect. So Against All Odds caps at +59.5% (10% + [5.5% x 9]). Thank you for clarifying what you mean though. (So this power would be +45.75% before pet.) (Edit: My mistake, you are correct. Both Shield Defense and your set have +65% damage buff at max values. SD = 5.5x10 + 10 = 65. WI = 4.25x10 + 7.5 + 15 = 65.)

 

Ok, but it's only 65% Damage buff with 2 powers, to Shields 1, and only after you get the pet and only if you stay within 10 ft of it. That's not outrageous.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

I'm looking at Tankers for comparison, but they have the same. However, I will not compare a Stun effect to a Fear effect. And your Fear effect dwarfs a control AT's Fear as well. Make it Mag 3 and I can feel better that at least the Controller has a longer duration.

 

I only linked Regen on a Scrapper cause Tankers don't have it, I just wanted to show the most basic self rez. But I disagree that a 300 second recharge power that you need to be dead to use for a 12 second Fear at level 50 dwarfs Controller fears that are all on a 40 second timers with nearly 3x the duration. There is precedence for powers to work like this, which is why I linked Dark Armor's self rez.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

It needs to lose the pet, not an attack. This is an armor set. It should not have a pet. Especially a pet that passively boosts the summoner's damage for all damage types, boosts the summoner's defense against all position types, and boosts the summoner's regeneration. And that is without considering that the pet also gets inherent defense to all positional attacks that can be further boosted with enhancements, resists mezzes which MM henchmen class pets cannot, and has an unstated special resistance.

 

Sets will always have differences from each other. We'll have to agree to disagree that the set can have a pet. It's just flavor, the most important part is the buff it gives, and the goal is just to keep it alive to keep those bonuses. That's the balancing point for it being in the set. It's not designed to be like Controller or MM pets that are designed for damage.. Also, I can't understand why I have to keep saying none of it's boosts are enhanceable, and also none of it's own passive defense would be enhanceable, no pets outside of some of the old MM primaries that were reworked, have ever allowed their passive resistances to be enhancable. The closest comparison would probably be Dark Servant, but in reverse as DS is about his debuffs and they are enhanceable.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

It also gets a 59.6% endurance discount. That boosts it well above. (Edit: For example, with a 59.6% endurance discount, that 0.26/s END toggle is actually 0.11/s before you even start slotting any enhancements. Even the Cardiac Core Paragon Alpha incarnate power only gives a 45% endurance reduction. And you can still take that Alpha with this set for a total 104.6% global endurance reduction. That makes all your powers cost nada to use. Though I think it will cap around 90% endurance reduction, so it may as well cost nada.)

 

It's the same end discount in Elec Armor and Energy Aura? It's in fact exactly Energize, except it doesn't get the +Regen that Energize gets. I didn't pick numbers out of nowhere, there was reasoning for every decision made.

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

So no, I still think it is OP. You are trying to make a set that rivals the best armor sets in the game: Shield Defense and Bio Armor, instead of pitching a median set that if played right works well. Even your hole against Psi' is easily plugged. You can get 30% Psi' resist just from Impervium Armor and another 5% from Aegis. And the pet being present at all in an armor set is not acceptable to me. Let alone a pet that boosts your damage, defense, and regeneration while also fighting alongside you.

 

I'm not trying to rival any set; I'm only trying to make a set that is in line with the other sets and on that we'll have to disagree. Also, Impervium only gives 6% Psi Res? Even if you meant slotting 5 of them, this set only has 2 powers that would accept Damage Resistance IOs, ignoring the fact that no set has ever been balanced around IOs.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

I'm not trying to rival any set; I'm only trying to make a set that is in line with the other sets and on that we'll have to disagree.

That may be your intent, but what you did was combine all the best traits of multiple sets without anything to offset it. You have Shield Defense pretty much in its entirety plus Electric Armor or Energy Aura's best traits. (Edit: While also throwing in a beyond incarnate global endurance reduction into the set. Not to mention a ToHit debuff aura that dwarfs even Dark Armor's Cloak of Fear and Willpower's Rise to the Challenge by several magnitudes.) And then you added a pet, that attacks your enemies, debuffs/knocks down your enemies, and buffs your character all at the same time. And I'm stuck sitting here wondering how you don't see that as grossly overpowered.

 

Edited Saturday at 06:05 PM by Rudra

[Trickshooter]

Here are all the sets with Defense Debuff resistance comparing all their effects. You'll notice my set is only the best at ToHit debuff and Defense debuff (and the defense debuff is tied with Rad Armor). Bright green highlight for the highest value, light green for when sets are tied.

 

These numbers include Wild Instinct's tier 9, the pet and all its buffs, but for the other 7 sets I did not include the values from their tier 9s. As you can see, even with Wild Instincts using all 9 of it's powers, it does not excel at many things over any other set using only 8 of their powers. I do include Phalanx Fighting's bonus defense for allies, because that's part of it's gimmick and it wouldn't be fair to discount it. Energy Aura is obviously not on Tankers, so this is the Brute version with Tanker mods.

 

Also worth keeping in mind that sets are balanced with SO performance, and because 7.5% of Wild Instincts defenses are unenhanceable, it will fall even further behind Shield and SR in Defense with enhancements. That is why I included a Heal, Regen and a Rez in the set, because it's Defense and Resistance values are incredibly middle of the road, so it relies on those effects to keep it alive.

 

And yes, the pet does damage, but it is not designed as a damage dealing pet. The attacks are only for flavor, because the pet would be weird just standing there doing nothing. It could honestly go down to just a bite attack, I just tried to be realistic that a dog/cat pet would both bite and scratch. And look, maybe no other Armor set has a pet right now, right? But why does that mean there can never be one? If you're so set that only Controllers and MMs can have pets, how do you feel about Dark Servant in a Support set? Or Voltaic Sentinel in a Blast set? Or Kheldian pets? Or SoA pets? Or the pets in all the Epics? I feel any type of set could get a pet as long as it's main purpose supports the goal of the category it's in (Armor, Blast, Support, Control, etc.)

 

Edited Saturday at 07:24 PM by Trickshooter
typos

[Trickshooter]

Anyway, we disagree, I don't really want to argue about it over and over. This is all for fun anyway. You're welcome to feel how you feel and I do appreciate the feedback being more than "No" lol

[Rudra]

You're missing the point. Look at the set in total. You have a 59.6% global endurance discount. That is better than a free level 50 END reduction SO in every power right off the bat. (Equal level SOs grant 33.3% END reduction, so you almost have two full END reduction SOs in every power before you slot any enhancements.) You also have a +68.25% recovery buff. So even before you get into enhancements, with the endurance discount, you have amazing staying power no matter what powers you pick and layer. Then you have up to 22.5% defense against all positional attacks. You coupled that with a -10.5% ToHit debuff without any enhancements factored in. So you've tanked other's ability to even hit you. You still retain a flat 15% base damage resist to everything except psionic damage so that even if you are hit, it isn't going to be that hard. And even if you are hit, you have up to a 200% regeneration rate before any enhancements and a heal. You start out with KB and KU protection, which other sets don't even get until level 10, if they even get it at all. You get a +65% damage buff from this armor set, and that is before the set's pet reduces the target's damage resistance. You still resist defense debuffs almost as well as Shield Defense does and you layer a regeneration debuff resistance on top of that. You also include a Perception buff to ensure you can ignore attempts to blind you. And then you include a pet that fights alongside you while also bolstering your character. Dark Servant has no attacks, just debuffs and a heal. Controller pets and Dominator pets don't bolster their summoner's own abilities. This is a do everything and do it all exceedingly well power set.

 

Edit: And even looking at your provided table, which mirrors my list, your set does vastly more than any other set equally well, comparably to, or better than other sets. Without listing the pet and the attacks it contributes.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:56 PM by Rudra

[Trickshooter]

I’m not gonna argue about it, there seems to be some sort of confusion somewhere and I’m not trying to type the same info over and over, and I’m sure you’re not either. We disagree, let’s leave it at that.

Edited Saturday at 07:37 PM by Trickshooter
Typo

[CrusaderDroid]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

No, I didn't. I left off any and all teammates. I am doing a straight set to set comparison without regard to whether on a team or not. (Edit: Just what the set itself brings to the character.)

Kind of a useless endeavor, then. You're calling the set OP, but don't really have any useful criteria for that classification. Shield Defense looks a lot better in practical conditions.

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

That means the character is effectively launching 2 attacks at a time, 1from the character itself and another from the pet.

...yes, and?

 

I don't even know how to argue with this. There's no criteria, no value judgment, no comparisons. It's just a statement of fact, and we - or whoever else you're trying to convince, at any rate - are expected to read this and instantly understand "ah yes, two attacks at once, this is clearly over the top, how dare they"?

 

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. This is objectively bad argumentation, and you haven't suggested any fixes for the set. The time spent on this would be better used making a Shield Defense Tanker and going out and having some fun in the game.

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

And then you still have the pet fortifying the character's damage output passively even further boosting your damage while also reducing the target's damage resistance to all damage types even further boosting your damage output.

...well yes, I hope pets do this. I would hope that, in general, game designers recognize it is okay and in fact desirable for players to feel strong when using the tools given to them. I really do enjoy the flip-out over the pet's damage contribution when no numbers are given, the damage is listed as "minor" in the description, and there's no practical way to boost the pet's damage higher by yourself because you really don't want to slot a very killable melee pet more than you need to. I guess you can argue that a bunch of melee characters bringing their own pets on top of Kinetics would be a lot of damage?

 

-RES is nice and all, but that's why you can slot this in with Achilles' Heel and Fury of the Gladiator and Annihilation (made possible through epic pool picks). It's great, but if you're serious about doing damage you'll have several other ways to stick it on. It isn't the end of the world for the pet to be able to apply -RES to one target - especially when two of those procs are for AoE powers and can hit multiple targets.

 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Your argument that the pet in this set is bad is like arguing that the nuke in a Blaster's set is bad.

The hell?

 

No, seriously, the hell? Back up, drink some water, and come back to this and think this through. Neither of those are remotely comparable to each other beyond being T9 powers. They're on entirely different ATs doing entirely different things to entirely different groups of targets. Why would this be even remotely relevant to the conversation?

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

This pet is available for Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Tankers, and Sentinels as part of their armor set. And it is there at zero cost to the character in regards to that armor set's capabilities. It actually fortifies the armor set's capabilities while also fortifying the characters' damage, regeneration, and defense.

Well, yeah. There's that "stating the obvious" thing again. This doesn't actually explain why any of this is bad. If anything, all of that is a prerequisite to make the thing work in the first place if it's supposed to fill in for a T9 power.

 

Also, we're running off Tanker numbers here. Every other AT gets worse defensive numbers, which hurts both the AT and the pet by extension since the pet's running off both your auto powers and its own numbers.

 

You could make the argument that maybe since the heal isn't as important, you could replace it with Animal Companion at an earlier level with less defensive power packed into it, thereby giving it more flexibility in its power range.

 

(Sentinels have modified armor powers and Stalkers give up one power for Hide, so it's entirely likely that neither of them will get Animal Companion, either.)

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

And all it does is cost the character half its heal. A heal that it does not even remotely need because of how high the set's defenses are before you even get to the armor set debuffing every enemy in melee range's ToHit by -10.5% before enhancements.

At the same time you want the heal because Panacea and Preventative Medicine are really good sets that you should be trying to slot whenever possible. The actual function of the heal is less important than enabling slotting heal IOs.

 

I can see an argument about the to-hit debuff being excessive, but I'd want to see it work in action before declaring it OP. Test servers are great for seeing things happen in the wild.

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

This set is untouchable. And on the off chance the set is hit? It still has equal armor to Shield Defense plus 200% regeneration and a heal. And the pet is adding to 3 of those elements beyond having 3 attacks of its own and also being evasive to all positional attacks.

It really isn't untouchable though? If it was, Shield Defense's higher defenses in pretty much every scenario with a teammate would make Shield Defense the best armor set in the game, since by definition it can boost its defenses even higher. Given that people run things other than Shield Defense, and especially given the presence of Bio Armor, I don't think this would even budge anything, pet or no pet.

 

Not that the pet matters. If you're solo and doing +4/x8, you'll hit the aggro cap, which means the pet draws aggro from the rest and rams into the terrible issue of not having any other way to boost its defenses enough to hit the defense soft cap, while getting no DDR. It'll die and take its 7.5% defense buff with it in short order. If you're solo and doing anything less than +4/x8 and crushing it...good for you, I guess.

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

And with that, there is no point to discussing this with you. You obviously want OP sets.

What's the point of 6.3k posts if your parting shot is a straw man that ignores the rest of the text after that?

 

Like, this has to be some of the worst arguing I've ever seen on the internet. Arbitrarily narrow criteria for what qualifies as OP, a seeming lack of awareness of game systems and the meta and even just regular non-optimal gameplay, restating information as if that by itself can win the argument...Whatever your goal is, you're failing at it - not just because your arguments are weak, but because they're so weak that everyone can see how weak they are and judge that you shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

 

@Trickshooter, you have my unequivocal support for whatever you make in the future. I think the set's a little shaky - way too close to Shield Defense in terms of values, not really pushing anything new between T1-T8, and the pet being generally suboptimal - but I like the theme, I like what you're trying to do and have done and will do, and I think there's plenty of space with what you've got to fix that up and make it better.

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, CrusaderDroid said:

Kind of a useless endeavor, then. You're calling the set OP, but don't really have any useful criteria for that classification. Shield Defense looks a lot better in practical conditions.

...yes, and?

 

I don't even know how to argue with this. There's no criteria, no value judgment, no comparisons. It's just a statement of fact, and we - or whoever else you're trying to convince, at any rate - are expected to read this and instantly understand "ah yes, two attacks at once, this is clearly over the top, how dare they"?

 

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. This is objectively bad argumentation, and you haven't suggested any fixes for the set. The time spent on this would be better used making a Shield Defense Tanker and going out and having some fun in the game.

...well yes, I hope pets do this. I would hope that, in general, game designers recognize it is okay and in fact desirable for players to feel strong when using the tools given to them. I really do enjoy the flip-out over the pet's damage contribution when no numbers are given, the damage is listed as "minor" in the description, and there's no practical way to boost the pet's damage higher by yourself because you really don't want to slot a very killable melee pet more than you need to. I guess you can argue that a bunch of melee characters bringing their own pets on top of Kinetics would be a lot of damage?

 

-RES is nice and all, but that's why you can slot this in with Achilles' Heel and Fury of the Gladiator and Annihilation (made possible through epic pool picks). It's great, but if you're serious about doing damage you'll have several other ways to stick it on. It isn't the end of the world for the pet to be able to apply -RES to one target - especially when two of those procs are for AoE powers and can hit multiple targets.

 

The hell?

 

No, seriously, the hell? Back up, drink some water, and come back to this and think this through. Neither of those are remotely comparable to each other beyond being T9 powers. They're on entirely different ATs doing entirely different things to entirely different groups of targets. Why would this be even remotely relevant to the conversation?

Well, yeah. There's that "stating the obvious" thing again. This doesn't actually explain why any of this is bad. If anything, all of that is a prerequisite to make the thing work in the first place if it's supposed to fill in for a T9 power.

 

Also, we're running off Tanker numbers here. Every other AT gets worse defensive numbers, which hurts both the AT and the pet by extension since the pet's running off both your auto powers and its own numbers.

 

You could make the argument that maybe since the heal isn't as important, you could replace it with Animal Companion at an earlier level with less defensive power packed into it, thereby giving it more flexibility in its power range.

 

(Sentinels have modified armor powers and Stalkers give up one power for Hide, so it's entirely likely that neither of them will get Animal Companion, either.)

At the same time you want the heal because Panacea and Preventative Medicine are really good sets that you should be trying to slot whenever possible. The actual function of the heal is less important than enabling slotting heal IOs.

 

I can see an argument about the to-hit debuff being excessive, but I'd want to see it work in action before declaring it OP. Test servers are great for seeing things happen in the wild.

 

It really isn't untouchable though? If it was, Shield Defense's higher defenses in pretty much every scenario with a teammate would make Shield Defense the best armor set in the game, since by definition it can boost its defenses even higher. Given that people run things other than Shield Defense, and especially given the presence of Bio Armor, I don't think this would even budge anything, pet or no pet.

 

Not that the pet matters. If you're solo and doing +4/x8, you'll hit the aggro cap, which means the pet draws aggro from the rest and rams into the terrible issue of not having any other way to boost its defenses enough to hit the defense soft cap, while getting no DDR. It'll die and take its 7.5% defense buff with it in short order. If you're solo and doing anything less than +4/x8 and crushing it...good for you, I guess.

What's the point of 6.3k posts if your parting shot is a straw man that ignores the rest of the text after that?

 

Like, this has to be some of the worst arguing I've ever seen on the internet. Arbitrarily narrow criteria for what qualifies as OP, a seeming lack of awareness of game systems and the meta and even just regular non-optimal gameplay, restating information as if that by itself can win the argument...Whatever your goal is, you're failing at it - not just because your arguments are weak, but because they're so weak that everyone can see how weak they are and judge that you shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

 

@Trickshooter, you have my unequivocal support for whatever you make in the future. I think the set's a little shaky - way too close to Shield Defense in terms of values, not really pushing anything new between T1-T8, and the pet being generally suboptimal - but I like the theme, I like what you're trying to do and have done and will do, and I think there's plenty of space with what you've got to fix that up and make it better.

If my 1st post wasn't clear enough, then here, I'll present a version of the set I can accept.

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Wildcat's Reflexes

+18% melee defense

+21.625% Defense debuff resistance (not enhanceable)

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Improved Constitution

+20% smashing resistance

+20% lethal resistance

+15% toxic resistance

+187.4 max HP

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Hawk's Vision

+18% ranged defense

+18% AoE defense

+5% ToHit

+300 feet Perception

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Wolf's Endurance

Mag 12.975 Hold protection

Mag 12.975 Stun protection

Mag 12.975 Sleep protection

Mag 12.975 Immobilize protection

+43.25% END drain resistance (not enhanceable)

+43.25% REC drain resistance (not enhanceable)

+25% Recovery

21.625% Defense debuff resist (not enhanceable)

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

Solid Stance

Mag 10 Knockback protection (not enhanceable)(edit again: replaces effect)

Mag 10 Knockup protection (not enhanceable)(edit again: replaces effect)

20% Endurance discount (not enhanceable)(edit again: replaces effect)

(still a click power)

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Ferocity

+7.5% all damage (not enhanceable)

+4.25% all damage, per enemy in radius, max 10 targets (not enhanceable)

-3.5% ToHit, all foes in radius

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

 Weathered Hide

+8% fire resistance

+12.5% cold resistance

+12.5% energy resistance

+12.5% negative energy resistance

+50% regeneration

 

On 7/5/2024 at 8:57 PM, Rudra said:

Force of Nature

Self rez

+100% HP

+50% END

+30% damage (for 30 seconds)

Debt protection (for 90 seconds)

Untouchable as per self rez

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:22 AM, Trickshooter said:

Untameable

+150% regeneration (60 seconds)

+25% melee defense (60 seconds)

+25% range defense (60 seconds)

+25% AoE defense (60 seconds)

+80% damage (30 seconds) (not enhanceable)

300 second recharge, unaffected by recharge

(Edit: If you want better or more buffs, then I'm adding a crash to compensate.)

 

 

Totals:

Melee defense:                         18% (43%)

Ranged defense:                       18% (43%)

AoE defense:                            18% (43%)

Smashing resist:                       20%

Lethal resist:                            20%

Fire resist:                                 8%

Cold resist:                               12.5%

Energy resist:                           12.5%

Negative Energy resist:            12.5%

Psionic resist:                            0%

Toxic resist:                              15%

DEFDebuff resist:                     43.25%

ToHit:                                      5%

ToHit Debuff:                           -3.5%

Perception:                              300

Regeneration:                          50% (200%)

Recovery:                                 25%

END discount:                         20%

Damage:                                  50% (130%)

KB resist:                                  10

KU resist:                                  10

Mez protections:                      12.975

END drain resist:                      43.25%

REC drain resist:                       43.25%

 

Edited yesterday at 05:14 AM by Rudra
Edited to add several (not enhanceable)s

[BrandX]

I like the idea of the set, except for the spirit animal.  It becomes like Bio, limiting in use due to FX 😕  

[Wavicle]

I'd play it. 

[Trickshooter]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:08 AM, BrandX said:

I like the idea of the set, except for the spirit animal.  It becomes like Bio, limiting in use due to FX 😕  

 

If it ever happened, I'd be sure to include a minimal FX option since it's a more "natural" set (like SR, Regen, WP, etc.). And just to be clear, my idea with the spirit animal effect is JUST for the activation of the toggles, not like a continuing effect.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Trickshooter said:

 

If it ever happened, I'd be sure to include a minimal FX option since it's a more "natural" set (like SR, Regen, WP, etc.). And just to be clear, my idea with the spirit animal effect is JUST for the activation of the toggles, not like a continuing effect.

 

Doesn't the T9 have an animal with it though?

 

That said, I would hope lots of different options in the animal department.  Not all natural either.  A nice metal spider would be cool.  Still, it feels like one would need some sort of animal with the concept for that T9.

[Trickshooter]

Just now, BrandX said:

 

Doesn't the T9 have an animal with it though?

 

That said, I would hope lots of different options in the animal department.  Not all natural either.  A nice metal spider would be cool.  Still, it feels like one would need some sort of animal with the concept for that T9.

 

Yes, the tier 9 would be an animal, but it's not a 'spirit animal', that idea was just for the activation of the toggles. I thought that the 'spirit' aspect of the toggle effects was what you didn't like.

 

The Animal Companion would just be a normal animal, one of the many dog or cat models in the game already, up to the player. I only didn't include a spider because I feel like in-game they move slower and that would affect being able to keep them within 30 ft of you on a fast moving team.

[Wavicle]

There are plenty of "generic" sets already. A couple specific sets is fine.