Captain America: Brave New World

[Without_Pause]

23 minutes ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

 

I personally am very ready for Marvel fandom generally to move away from the notion that Stan Lee requires some sort of obeisance. 

I could have found 10-20 other characters more worthy to end that clip than Red Hulk, and I'm not even that awake. Red Hulk has been around 7 years out of Marvel's 85 years, isn't even the first iteration nor variation of Hulk, and has yet to even appear in a MCU movie or show. If anything, Red Hulk represents Marvel's trend of beating an idea into the ground as a way to show they don't have fresh ideas at trying to make genuinely new and interesting characters, and I won't even add in things like Deadpool being a straight ripoff of Deathstroke. You want to end the clip with a character? Great. Spider-Man or Capt. America are easy picks. Hell, put the Fantastic 4 since they are coming to the MCU. My point was showing Red Hulk is more about the next thing coming out versus honoring 85 years of Marvel which is what the clip was about.

[TTRPGWhiz]

8 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

My point was showing Red Hulk is more about the next thing coming out versus honoring 85 years of Marvel which is what the clip was about.

 

Honestly, unabashed salesmanship in the form of a 'LOOK AT THIS NEXT THING' stinger is exactly the kind of thing Stan Lee was about, so maybe it was the *best* choice.

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Red Hulk has been around 7 years out of Marvel's 85 years, isn't even the first iteration nor variation of Hulk, and has yet to even appear in a MCU movie or show.

Did you mean 17 years?  'Cause Red Hulk's first comic appearance was 2008, so it will be 17 years when the character is brought to the big screen in 2025.  While it is true that Red Hulk has not been seen in the MCU so far, his alter ego has, right from the 2008 The Incredible Hulk movie, and appearances in Civil War and Endgame.  And Red Hulk has been seen on screen before, just not the big screen.  He was in the animated series Avengers Assemble, the series releasing a year after the first Avengers movie.  I point that out to show that many, either by comics, or animation, or just word of mouth already know the character and who his alter ego is, and several have known for over a decade.  Ending with Red Hulk is akin to ending the Civil War trailer with first images of Spider-Man, which drove the fans into a frenzied lather. Admittedly, Red Hulk is not on that scale of fan fawning.

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Techwright said:

Did you mean 17 years?  'Cause Red Hulk's first comic appearance was 2008, so it will be 17 years when the character is brought to the big screen in 2025.  While it is true that Red Hulk has not been seen in the MCU so far, his alter ego has, right from the 2008 The Incredible Hulk movie, and appearances in Civil War and Endgame.  And Red Hulk has been seen on screen before, just not the big screen.  He was in the animated series Avengers Assemble, the series releasing a year after the first Avengers movie.  I point that out to show that many, either by comics, or animation, or just word of mouth already know the character and who his alter ego is, and several have known for over a decade.  Ending with Red Hulk is akin to ending the Civil War trailer with first images of Spider-Man, which drove the fans into a frenzied lather. Admittedly, Red Hulk is not on that scale of fan fawning.

 

And don't forget the totally awesome HULK and The Agents of S.M.A.S.H!😎👍  Red Hulk voiced by none other than Clancy Brown, no less!

[biostem]

Kind of a weird observation - At the end of Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Sam got a Wakandan Vibranium suit & flight pack - why would he give that up?  Also, (and unless I'm misremembering), in Civil War, didn't he say he was part of a special paratrooper rescue unit?  If so, are there other soldiers out there trained and equipped with versions of his original suit?

[Luminara]

50 minutes ago, biostem said:

Also, (and unless I'm misremembering), in Civil War, didn't he say he was part of a special paratrooper rescue unit?  If so, are there other soldiers out there trained and equipped with versions of his original suit?

 

It was in The Winter Soldier, and the implication was that he and Riley were the only two.  When Sam decides to offer to help Cap and Natasha, he hands them a folder with a picture of him and Riley.

 

https://marvel-cinematic-universe-guide.fandom.com/wiki/Bakhmala

 

There are only three people in the photograph, Sam, Riley and one person in the background of the picture, behind and to the right of Sam.  Sam and Riley are wearing wingsuit harnesses and clad in black, the third man is in desert tan and appears to have something around his neck, so he was probably a high altitude pilot (the neck piece would be a helmet seal).

 

Riley was killed in their last mission, hit by an RPG, so should be the only living person trained to use the Exo-7.

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Riley was killed in their last mission, hit by an RPG, so should be the only living person trained to use the Exo-7.

Thanks for the explanation/clarification!  That being said, *someone* was manufacturing those backpacks, and presumably there was some test pilot(s).  Either way, I guess my point is that the gear exists out there, somewhere, besides what Sam has access to, and if someone else can figure out how to make their own arc reactor, surely this suit should turn up elsewhere.  Though, I suppose, even with them being misused by Vanko, you'd think the "Hammeroids" would have still been used by the military at this point...

Edited August 29 by biostem

[LKN-351]

Just like in the comics when Sam became Cap, Joaquin Torres is the new Falcon and hes actually in the trailor in a few scenes.

He was in Falcon and the Winter Soldier too and its been a while since that came out but there was talk in that series about him being the new Falcon.

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

Though, I suppose, even with them being misused by Vanko, you'd think the "Hammeroids" would have still been used by the military at this point...

 

All of the Hammeroids were destroyed when Vanko set their arc reactors to overload, and I doubt Vanko would've left schematics on Hammer's mainframe, or left them unencrypted and accessible to anyone but him or someone equally intelligent.  So the military would've only had fragments to reverse engineer, and as of End Game, there was no indication that they'd accomplished that.  They hadn't even deconstruct and copied the Mark II armor that Rhodes wears, and that was a primary plot point in Iron Man 2, so it's either too advanced for them to understand, or there wasn't enough left to figure it out.

 

In Ant Man, Sam's wingsuit is branded with the Stark name and logo, implying an upgrade... but also potentially suggesting that the originals were also created by Stark, and if that was the case, the military wouldn't have any more success replicating it than they had with Vanko's stuff.

[Techwright]

16 hours ago, biostem said:

Kind of a weird observation - At the end of Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Sam got a Wakandan Vibranium suit & flight pack - why would he give that up?  Also, (and unless I'm misremembering), in Civil War, didn't he say he was part of a special paratrooper rescue unit?  If so, are there other soldiers out there trained and equipped with versions of his original suit?

Well for one thing, it may have been Wakandan by design, but unless it's got a hidden force field in the headband, it has no cranium protection.  That should be soldier uniform design 101.

Luminara is right about there being only 2 flyboys with wings.  I would add that the winged backpack used in The Winter Soldier, the one Bucky destroyed, Sam clearly stated was the only one remaining, which is why they had to break in (offscreen) to get it.  Obviously, the new pack and suit in that scene from Ant-Man is Tony's retro-engineering from the remains of the destroyed pack and upgrading.

 

15 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

It was in The Winter Soldier, and the implication was that he and Riley were the only two.  When Sam decides to offer to help Cap and Natasha, he hands them a folder with a picture of him and Riley.

 

https://marvel-cinematic-universe-guide.fandom.com/wiki/Bakhmala

 

There are only three people in the photograph, Sam, Riley and one person in the background of the picture, behind and to the right of Sam.  Sam and Riley are wearing wingsuit harnesses and clad in black, the third man is in desert tan and appears to have something around his neck, so he was probably a high altitude pilot (the neck piece would be a helmet seal).

 

Riley was killed in their last mission, hit by an RPG, so should be the only living person trained to use the Exo-7.

Gotta admit, the third person is intriguing.  I'd have figured him for some sort of commander, or handler, or even an insertion specialist, flying the two to a certain point where their packs take over and picking them up afterwards, but I'm not sure how that would work with high altitude.  They'd have wing icing, as Tony once found out.

15 hours ago, biostem said:

Thanks for the explanation/clarification!  That being said, *someone* was manufacturing those backpacks, and presumably there was some test pilot(s).  Either way, I guess my point is that the gear exists out there, somewhere, besides what Sam has access to, and if someone else can figure out how to make their own arc reactor, surely this suit should turn up elsewhere.  Though, I suppose, even with them being misused by Vanko, you'd think the "Hammeroids" would have still been used by the military at this point...

Even if the wing backpack could be duplicated, it would be inferior to what Tony designed.  They'd have to go for quantity of fliers over quality of equipment if going up against Sam. 

As to Vanko's drones, Stark may have examined any bits that remained, just to learn more from Vanko's style, but considering the danger they put the public in, it's likely they were cleaned up by a government squad like the one that supplanted Vulture's crew, then incinerated.  However...

15 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

All of the Hammeroids were destroyed when Vanko set their arc reactors to overload, and I doubt Vanko would've left schematics on Hammer's mainframe, or left them unencrypted and accessible to anyone but him or someone equally intelligent.  So the military would've only had fragments to reverse engineer, and as of End Game, there was no indication that they'd accomplished that.  They hadn't even deconstruct and copied the Mark II armor that Rhodes wears, and that was a primary plot point in Iron Man 2, so it's either too advanced for them to understand, or there wasn't enough left to figure it out.

 

In Ant Man, Sam's wingsuit is branded with the Stark name and logo, implying an upgrade... but also potentially suggesting that the originals were also created by Stark, and if that was the case, the military wouldn't have any more success replicating it than they had with Vanko's stuff.

I'm not sure what fragments would remain, but I think it highly likely that Stark was given a chance to examine them, and this is a pre-Ultron Stark, highly proned to impulsive behavior.  I'd not put it past Stark to integrate some discovery in Vanko's work, or build a new prototype.  I don't know if the writers intended it, but what if Stark used elements of the drones design as the forerunners of the Iron Legion and even Redwing?

 

As to my former "however...", I'd not be surprised if remnants of Vanko's work, and the wing suits, show up in Armor Wars.  I too would find it hard to believe that none of Vanko's work was studied in aftermath, and Stark clearly studied the Falcon project.

[ZacKing]

Can't get excited about this.  I have to wonder why they're bothering releasing it since there's no way I can see this turning a profit.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I don't know if the writers intended it, but what if Stark used elements of the drones design as the forerunners of the Iron Legion and even Redwing?

 

It's a perfectly feasible theory.  Stark creating independently functional suits (Age of Ultron), parts of suits (Iron Man 3), pilotless aircraft (Age of Ultron and Civil War), Redwing (Civil War) and the attack drones from Spider-Man: Far From Home, all after the events of Iron Man 2.   And all of the Hammeroids were at the Stark Expo, so he would've had first access, possibly exclusive access (he did successfully tell the U.S. government to go fuck themselves when they tried to eminent domain his tech), to everything.

 

In Iron Man 3, he's shown to be suffering from insomnia and working manically for days, effectively tripling his productivity, so he would've had more than sufficient time to deconstruct, reproduce and improve on Vanko's tech before we see the Iron Legion, Redwing and other examples of his drone tech.

 

So yes, plausible and, in fact, likely.

 

28 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I'd not be surprised if remnants of Vanko's work, and the wing suits, show up in Armor Wars.  I too would find it hard to believe that none of Vanko's work was studied in aftermath, and Stark clearly studied the Falcon project.

 

As I said earlier, he did create a new wingsuit for Sam, which means the old one went... where?

 

When he redesigns his arc reactor in the first film, he tells Pepper to destroy the original one, but she turns it into a display instead.  In Spider-Man: Homecoming, The Vulture is stealing Chitauri, Sub-Ultron and even Stark tech, right out from under the noses of guards and Stark Tech security measures (he's in charge of the Department of Damage Control).  By Iron Man 3, he has every suit he's ever made, sans the Mark II that Rhodes has.  So he's not destroying things any more, he's stashing them.  Ant Man infiltrates the Avengers facility and steals something, which tells us that even his most advanced anti-theft tech isn't infallible.

 

So we have a high degree of certainty that the original Exo-7 is sitting in a warehouse somewhere, just waiting to be swiped.  Whether it'll show up in future films... it's kind of a one-trick pony, and may not bring enough glitz and glitter to justify having another winged hero or villain.  The Vulture's wingsuit is more interesting and, in some ways, more advanced (the wings are shown to be at least partially prehensile in Homecoming), which further overshadows the Exo-7.  It would have to be beefed up to justify an entry into Armor Wars.

[Ghost]

Geez.

Reports are saying that the most recent test screening report is saying this movie is still a mess.

 

3 full reshoots.  It’s time to just release this on D+ and hope no one notices.

[Techwright]

47 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Geez.

Reports are saying that the most recent test screening report is saying this movie is still a mess.

 

3 full reshoots.  It’s time to just release this on D+ and hope no one notices.

 

Haven't seen those reports yet, but you'd think after decades of expensive messes that Hollywood would realize that the first test group should be the same-sized group of viewers to read the script and give feedback.  Until you hit 80% likes or higher, don't go into production mode.

 

That, or give it to a literate 5-year-old child.  That's just basic Evil Overlord List #12:

One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

 

 

 

Edited November 26 by Techwright

[Ghost]

12 minutes ago, Techwright said:

 

Haven't seen those reports yet, but you'd think after decades of expensive messes that Hollywood would realize that the first test group should be the same-sized group of viewers to read the script and give feedback.  Until you hit 80% likes or higher, don't go into production mode.

 

That, or give it to a literate 5-year-old child.  That's just basic Evil Overlord List #12:

One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

 

 

 

I haven’t seen anything in this yet, but I seem to recall a couple years ago Disney going all in-house with test screenings.  
which of course can lead to bias (like what happened with Eternals).  If that’s what happened here, that makes it even more concerning how bad this mess could be.

[ZacKing]

17 hours ago, Ghost said:

Geez.

Reports are saying that the most recent test screening report is saying this movie is still a mess.

 

3 full reshoots.  It’s time to just release this on D+ and hope no one notices.

 

Yeah this news was on the BBC the other day.  From what the report had said, Disney is working on re-shoots right now for this movie.  That doesn't bode well for this movie.  According to the report, the reported budget is over $375 million US not including marketing.  That's insanely ridiculous and it's probably understated given all of the re-shoots.  There's no way this movie hits the billion dollar mark to even break even.

[Ghost]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

Yeah this news was on the BBC the other day.  From what the report had said, Disney is working on re-shoots right now for this movie.  That doesn't bode well for this movie.  According to the report, the reported budget is over $375 million US not including marketing.  That's insanely ridiculous and it's probably understated given all of the re-shoots.  There's no way this movie hits the billion dollar mark to even break even.

A YouTuber I watch was saying they’ve reshot so much, that they basically can pick and choose scenes to make a couple different movies.

 

There is no way they make a dime off this.  May be smarter to can it like WB did with Batwoman.

Edited November 26 by Ghost

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

There is no way they make a dime off this.  May be smarter to can it like WB did with Batwoman.

That's an interesting idea.  I wonder how restrictive that might be for making continuity for the rest of the MCU.  EDIT: By that I mean,  The Bat film was permitted for tax purposes because they agreed to never let anything of it see the light of day.  Would that be the same for CA: BNW, and would it paint the MCU in a corner, being unable to use certain characters, story elements, etc.

 

I'm guessing the insane reshoots and price tag are seen as necessary because this movie might be perceived as a tentpole for the lore for all the future MCU stories.  Sort of the way Age of Ultron directly affected the stories of Captain America: Civil War and Thor: Ragnarok, and through those Ant-man and the Wasp, Infinity War, and Endgame.  (Maybe a couple of others.)

 

Edited November 26 by Techwright
Text clarification

[ZacKing]

18 hours ago, Ghost said:

A YouTuber I watch was saying they’ve reshot so much, that they basically can pick and choose scenes to make a couple different movies.

 

There is no way they make a dime off this.  May be smarter to can it like WB did with Batwoman.

 

Yeah I've seen a few news articles and reports over the last day or two that are putting the budget at closer to $400 million US.  A couple of them that are admittedly rumor from "insider sources" have said that the budget is over $500 million US, not including any marketing.  I like Anthony Mackie and the character of Falcon, but there's no way this movie is pulling in the billion plus it's going to need just to break even.  He's just not that big of a draw.  According to the BBC report I saw, they're in the process of re-shooting several scenes again.  I agree, it might be better to take the hit like WB did with Batgirl.  The MCU needs a long hiatus so they can go back to the drawing board.  Thunderbolts and this flop aren't going to bring back the MCU.

 

I guess a silver lining here is that this film may take the title of biggest MCU flop away from The Marvels, and that's not something to really be proud of.