Out to EAT : A look at Epic ATs - what is, could have been, and never was

[Greycat]

Out to EAT - Epic ATs in City of Heroes

 

This is an expansion and update of my EAT at War Witch’s guide from back on live. This is not a “how to build/play” for the Epic ATs we have or even a deep dive into the lore behind them. I’ve simply been fascinated by, and a fan of, the Epic AT concept since running into them way back in Issue 3 on live. 

 

What’s the purpose of this guide?

 

Information and my own entertainment, mostly. This is meant to be a look at the concept of Epic ATs and what was proposed. We had some information on them back on live - some were mentioned ages ago and never came to light, or came to light differently - and some were mentioned afterward. Some, we have quite a bit of information on, some just a quick mention in passing. 

 

I would not expect Homecoming or any other successor server to come up with a true EAT. Even for the live development team, EATs were a lot of work - coming up with powersets and everything associated with them such as animations, then coming up with storylines from 1-50 specifically for them and, going by what they’d done before, only playable by those characters. For many of these, design was done, as well as some animation, but art and content were not. (Hosun Lee, 2013 AMA.) 

 

So what is an Epic AT?

 

An Epic AT is an AT which is tied to some specific aspect of game lore. The “Epic” moniker is meant in the vein of the Epic of Gilgamesh - a story. It’s meant to set these apart so the player knows that there’s going to be story attached, and with it some restrictions and / or something special related to that story. 

 

For example, Kheldians (Peacebringer/Warshade,) the first EATs released, were initially locked - you had to get to level 50 to make one. They were restricted in origin, had special enemies, had certain power pools restricted, and can’t be made on the “wrong” side (not that there was a villain side when they were released.) In return, you got an extended power list and a unique shapeshifting AT, a special contact and story arcs running from 1-50. 

 

Even though only a scant pair of concepts made it all the way to having an AT in game, there are hints and traces of others throughout. Some were realized in other ways, some have their impact in the game environment, story arcs or clues. Some never had anything player-facing show up at all. 

 

Some of what I put in here will be guesses, and I’ll endeavor to be clear about them - if you see “Likely” or “Possibly,” it’s obviously a guess that I think makes sense with what we know about them.

[Greycat]

The Living EATs

 

These are Epics that actually made it into game as playable, 1-50 Epic ATs, complete with story arcs. If you can pick them at character creation, they’re here. Note that the restrictions I mentioned are those at release - the level and origin restrictions were relaxed later, either on live or on “successor” servers. 

 

Kheldians / HEAT

ATs: Peacebringer, Warshade

Side: Heroic

Restrictions: Origin (Peacebringer, Natural. Warshade, Science.) Side: Hero (cannot start villain, though you can side switch.) Originally locked out of Flight and Teleport pools. 

Features: Form shifting. Custom enemies (Quantum gunners, Void Hunters.) 

 

Released in Issue 3 on live (“A Council of War,”) Kheldians are an extragalactic race which can copy and reproduce the form of their hosts. Their hosts get new abilities while the Kheldians can extend their lives. 

 

The Kheldians fight a galaxy spanning war against their former rulers, once called Science Lords, now called Nictus, which was sparked after the Kheldians were directed to conquer and enslave an empire only to find it was essentially a cover for the Nictus, who had altered themselves via science, to drain the Kheldians’ life and extend their own. 

 

On Earth, the Nictus hiding there formed the Path of the Dark in Ravenna, Italy, and later become leaders in the Council, creating soldiers with powers similar to their own while plotting to conquer and convert the planet. The Peacebringers arrive during the Rikti war to put a stop to them, finding unexpected aid in rebel Nictus who don’t agree with their kin - the Warshades. 

 

The Kheldian ATs are known for shape shifting to fill multiple roles on a team, and handle their powers in very different ways tied to the lore. 

 

Later revisions on Live and the Homecoming servers first lowered, then removed the level to unlock Kheldians (also purchasable as an unlock with the coming of COH: Freedom, when the game went free to play.) The origin restrictions and power pool restrictions were also unlocked, though (in my opinion) the origin restriction was perfectly appropriate. The starting side is also set, though you bypass the tutorial and can side switch if desired. 

 

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

Soldiers of Arachnos / Widows - VEAT (Villain EAT)

 

AT: Soldiers of Arachnos (SOA,) Widows

Side: Villain

Restrictions: Origin. Must get to 50. First costume slot dedicated to Arachnos uniform costume. Gender (SOA: Male, Widow: Female) 

Features: Branching mechanic at 24. Leadership equivalent in power pools. 

 

When City of Villains was released, player characters were rescued from the Ziggursky penitentiary by Arachnos, one of the primary villain groups run by Lord Recluse, friend-turned-rival to Statesman. This was done due to a prophecy about a Destined One who would aid Arachnos’s goals. 

 

But what about the rank-and-file troops, passed over and sacrificed to help these super-powered villains out of prison, just to dump them in their home, the Rogue Isles? The VEAT lets you take on the role of one of them, taking your destiny into your own hands and letting you compete to become a Destined One… or so you think, discovering partway through your journey that your attempts were essentially allowed for the amusement of Lord Recluse. 

 

These were given a “branching” mechanic. You would initially start out as a Soldier or Widow at level 1. At level 24,  you were put into a forced respec (which was, and still is, very annoying) and had to pick a path. For the Soldiers, you would pick either a Crab Spider - an armored fighter with a backpack from which four mechanical weapons arms emerged - or a Bane Spider, a stealthy melee fighter. Widows would either become Night Widows - vicious melee fighters - or Fortunata, more psychic ranged attackers. 

 

The storyline is..  Eh, rather uninspiring, even insulting at times, and I don’t know of many who’ve even mentioned playing it more than once (at least past the level 10 arc which unlocked a costume slot.) VEATs were more (in)famous for double-stacking Leadership. Leadership is a power pool with toggles to provide a buff to the defense, to-hit and damage of you and your team. VEATs got these as part of their native powerset, and the Leadership power pool was not locked out - so if you could stomach the endurance cost to run them all, you could have fairly powerful team buffs, and if you had multiple VEATs doing this… 

 

Yes, these were initially locked by gender, for reasons gone into in a story arc by Weston Phipps dealing with how the types were trained. Females went into the Widows, males went into the Bane Spiders - specifically because of the mental link / hive mind the Banes developed. 

 

There was also a longstanding bug regarding the Crab Spiders. For their powers, they required a backpack to be permanently attached with four mechanical weapon arms. City of Heroes allowed multiple builds on a character, and VEATs could pick the other path on the other build. If you did so on a SOA, though, and one build was the Crab, the other build could not get rid of the weapon arm backpack costume piece.

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

“Once an Epic” - Proposed EATs that got into the game as something else.

Quote

“I’ll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.
Incarnate.
Heck, I’ll do another…
Coralax.
Happy Saturday!”
Jack Emmert/statesman, COH forums, 03 Nov 2004

 

If you've played (or play) City of Heroes, those names might sound familiar. They existed in the game at shutdown.

 

But they became something very different. One became a system to give players additional power without raising a level cap, the other was introduced as - and stayed as - an NPC villain group.

 

So let’s take a look.

 

Edited September 4 by Greycat
Putting in content

[Greycat]

Incarnates

 

Quote

“We want to work on Incarnates (next,) we’re just not sure how to work them into the story.” - Matt Miller (Positron,) interview. 

 

AT: Incarnates

Side: Unlikely to have been side-locked

Origin: Unknown, unlikely to have been locked - or, potentially its own “origin.” 

Restrictions: Unknown. 

 

Incarnates - even if not known by that name - have existed in the game since its beginning. Statesman, the “central figure” heroside, was an Incarnate of Zeus. Lord Recluse, the leader of Arachnos, the villain group, is an Incarnate of Tartarus. Sstheno, in mythology a gorgon, was the leader/mother/goddess of the snake people on the Rogue Isles, and when Cimerora was introduced, Imperious was also an Incarnate - among others. Silos is mentioned in an AMA as possibly being an “Incarnate of Time.” 

 

Incarnates drew their power from, or were granted it by, the Well of the Furies - which itself has undergone some change, from early on being a vague “something” that took in Humanity’s creativity, ambition, dreams and more and occasionally opened to release it and trigger an age of heroes to being a sentient “thing.” 

 

Above Incarnates were Ascended - Prometheus, DJ Zero and Ruularu fell in here. They are around the same level as a Well. Above them are Dimensionless. In the storylines roughly sketched out (AMA 2013, 2014) after the Battalion (and True Battalion,)  we’d have fought with or against them - and the Wells, then the Dimensionless, Primordials, then protected the First Primordial against the Concepts of Order and Chaos - it got nuts. Wells were supposed to be buffers between their species and the Source. Some notes have them being the Primordeals. 

 

Also, as far as wells, in the AMA 2013 discussing the Battalion, it’s mentioned Earth’s well was unique in that it would grant powers to people. (And that Mender Tesseract was a member of the Battalion.) 

 

Mechanically, Incarnates went from being an Epic AT to being a new power advancement system - in some ways adding levels without adding levels. Initial stories were based in Praetoria and, later, with the awakening and re-binding of Mot in Dark Astoria. Powers were going to continue to grow in strength, sectioned off with one “tree” growing off another. 

 

Quote

 

Q) What was going to be the plan for the final incarnate powers and trials? (@Sarrona)

A) There was no “final”, once Omega slot was reached that would be the new “Alpha” slot and 10 more Incarnate levels would appear above it. Getting the first 10 Incarnate powers would have been trivialized so the “new grind” would be the Omega-base tree. And then there was a tree after that, and one after that, etc. (Matt)

(2013 AMA) 

 

 

As it sits, going by “tiers” of powers (starting with the single bottom power on the “tree”), we have or would have had:

(Current - see descriptions in game for these.) 

Set 1:

Alpha

Judgement/Interface (AOE or PBAOE, as well as added effects) 

Lore/Destiny (Pets/Buffs) 

 

Set 2:

Hybrid (in game, toggle with player buffs.) 

Genesis (next slot, not developed - AOE buff/debuff patches.) 

Mind, Vitae, Omega (No description) 

 

Set 3 - at least the last set we have descriptions for (AMA 2013) 

Arete: Instant recharge of all powers for a period

Majesty: (Confuse foes, who self destruct at the end of the confuse period) 

Infinity: (Player doppelgangers) 

Transcendence (Uniiversal immunity, can attack into Phase) 

Fulfillment (major PBAOE and level shifts.) 

 

Apparently the story line would have required this increasingly insane power - and/or the development of COH 2. (AMA 2013) 

 

The system was designed to not end, but it did, just like the development of these as an EAT. Whether that’s good or bad is a matter of personal taste. I don't know how the whole concept of "the prior tree would have been trivialized" (and, by extension, the player's own powers) would have been received by the playerbase. I can't imagine it would be embraced wholeheartedly. Even what we have now leads to the occasional complaint of homogenization.

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

Coralax

 

AT: Coralax. (More likely “Coralax Hybrid,” Perhaps Virtea, but these would more likely be NPCs. 

Side: Perhaps villainside, unknown. 

Origin: Likely magic and/or mutation

Restrictions: Unknown

Likely Special: (Speculation) Possibly introducing an underwater zone, given the “pond” discovered in Grandville. 

 

The Coralax exist in game as an NPC enemy faction, mostly in City of Villains, though they do make some appearances on blue side. All non-Shapers we see are Coralax Hybrids - including Barracuda, Captain Mako’s lieutenant. 

 

The Coralax are creations of the goddess Merulina, who fell to Earth millions of years ago (COH) and made her followers from the coral of the sea. (This is the basis for the “possibly Magic origin.”) Merulina created the Shapers, the high priests and leaders of Coralax civilization, who are psychically connected to Merulina - and are confused by her recent silence. 

 

So what are Virtea? These were a peaceful aquatic race who were dominated by the Coralax by various means and serve as a slave species. (“Dominated through a combination of charm, intimidation and mental strength, the Virtea serve the will of the Coralax.”) 

 

“Pure” Coralax bodies are actually coral (“As the pollution began to degrade the very coral from which their bodies were made…” (COH) ) 

 

For an idea of what the player’s abilities might have been? Simply look at Barracuda - who was captured and changed by the Shapers. (This is where I think they *might* have been considered “mutation,” though given the change was initiated by the Shapers’ magic, I lean more towards that.) 

 

There’s at least one other trace of the Coralax from early in the game’s history - at least indirectly (after all, they were planned in 2004.) In Striga Isle, during Stephanie Peebles’ arc, you rescue some scientists that “found something” in the ocean - some sort of creature. That something was one of the Virtea. (Why the Council is interested? Not explained, but given the Nictus….) 

 

Not much else is known or easily deduced about the Coralax, sadly. I could not find many other quotes or much other information about them. Still, with them being in game as an NPC group, I feel comfortable putting them in the “Sorta in game” category. 

 

Next, the “Almosts.”

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

"Almost made it!"

 

These are EATs that have some traces or other information in game, that were (or were *likely* worked on or at least seem to be solidly sketched out, but didn’t make it into the game. 

 

Nictus

Side: Villain

Origin: Science

 

We don’t know what all would have happened with the Nictus. Would they have had different forms? (More “Life stealing” forms are mentioned roughly in the Kheldian backstory guide from 2004.) Been more about control? Possibly been more like masterminds?

 

What we know or can deduce is basically from what we have in the Kheldians on hero side - we’d have likely seen the other side of the Kheldian war. How you would have interacted with Arachnos, Requiem or Arakhn is intriguing. And we know they were being worked on because of the quote from Matt Miller about wanting to work on the Incarnate EAT after finishing Nictus. 

 

These were put on the back burner - essentially scrapped - in favor of the Soldiers of Arachnos / Widows that we got. Which to me is too bad, I'd have loved to see that side of the war, and with side switching I'd think the story line would still have been viable (and/or would have been able to remove the side starting restriction from Khelds.)

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

Blood of the Black Stream

 

Origin: Likely magic, or magic/tech. 

Side: Unknown, though almost all traces in game are redside. 

Restrictions: Unknown, probably origin. 

Specialty: More shapeshifting. 

 

Sean Fish (Manticore) kept pushing for this EAT to be finished and introduced into the game, and I really wish he would have succeeded.There are several interesting “hooks” for them in game as it is. 

 

Group history:

The Blood of the Black Stream stretch back to Ancient Egypt. They were a group of mages who attempted to overthrow the Pharaoh and seize power by means of bribery of his followers. They were defeated by an enchanted statue sent after the Pharaoh prayed to Ra for an unshakably loyal protector. (COH website, “You are the hero” card - Ahnek Rah-Zul.) 

 

We don’t know what they’ve been doing for the intervening time, only that Gadzul Oil, an oil concern based in Egypt, is their “modern day face.” They still work to control and corrupt people in positions of power, as well as run a (“leaky”) oil refinery off the Rogue Isles. The oil is apparently more than it seems, as they try to build “the circuit.” 

 

Traces in game:

 

Mr. Bocor, “Retrieve the journal off Padre Henry,” mentions them - the book he’s interested in, “The Journal of Padre Gerard Henri,”  was a  gift to “old man” Marcone they’re trying to pass to Emil Marcone now. It’s a book with the history of the island - which Gadzul Oil is also cursed in a way that allows the owner to be controlled via “the right kind of magics.” 

 

Port Oakes, Oil Spill,  [785.3 227.5 1450.8]  - the oil spilling from the Gadzul Oil tanker forms an Eye of Horus. 

 

Other traces - 

 

With the City of Heroes CCG, a card builder was created on the COHCCG website and a contest, “You are the hero” was run. This was won on Sept 25, 2005, by Ahnek Rak-Zul, a Tanker from the Protector server. Sean Fish tweaked the description slightly to link them directly to the Blood of the Black Stream. 

 

Other than these, we really don’t know much about them other than that they would also have been a shapeshifting AT with ancient Egyptian roots. Would we have *gone* to Egypt, ancient or otherwise? Doubtful, barring some special mission map, but I’ll admit to being interested in them since I first heard of them.

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

Avilians 

 

Origin: Unknown

Side: Hero, at least initially - just given the timeframe they were aimed at. 

Restrictions: Unknown, other than logically having to have wings - see below.

Specialty: Wings

 

This one’s a little bit of a stretch because I don’t know how much was actually done on them, though they do have a trace in game. There’s no specific lore I’ve dug up on them. 

 

These were initially conceived as a way to give players wings. That was their whole schtik. Then wings as ("functional" is implied here) costume pieces were figured out and the concept was dropped. 

 

In game traces: Officer Wincott mission - one of the artifacts retrieved from the Hellions is a human looking skull that’s strangely light and hollow. This would be from them.

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

Proposed EATs

 

For these, we really don’t have a lot of information other than a mention here or there.  We're getting more into the weeds and speculation here.

 

PEATs: Redeemed Devoured, Praetorian Clockwork

Quote

 

AMA 2014:

Q) Were there ever any plans to finally rescue/revert Tanya/Terra from “The Terra Conspiracy?” That was a favourite, though somewhat sad, arc. (Memphis Bill) 

 

A) Tim Sweeney (Black Scorp) There were plans for two Praetorian Epic Archetypes on the tables, and quite a few of the powers were actually implemented. One a Praetorian Clockwork, and one a Recovered Devoured. I think that we probably would have used the former as a way to help refresh some of the AI/robot related storylines, and the second to advance Devouring Earth plotlines like that. An way to trigger factionalizing or internal disruption to the DE might have been a good, polarizing plotline. Plus, we could probably have turned her into our own version of Sarah Kerrigan.

 

 

Redeemed Devoured

Origin: Probably Mutation

Side: Likely no restriction

Other restrictions: Possibly model?

Quirk - 3 part inherent that seems related to Fury (see City of Data.)

 

Praetorian Hyper-Advanced Clockwork

Origin:Tech

Side: Likely no restriction

Other restrictions: Possibly model/costume? Does have mention in City of Data of "Android Form." Inherent - self rez.

 

Conjecture: These may have had to start in Praetoria - it would make sense for them to do so, after all, given the name. However, as in the quote above, the Clockwork may have been used to “reboot AI/robot related storylines,” and while they do feature somewhat heavily in Praetoria, there are also quite a few dealing with the Council, Crey AIs and the like through Blueside.

Edited September 5 by Greycat
Tweaks and updates with info from discussion further down - thanks BillyTheMailman!

[Greycat]

Circle of Thorns EAT

 

Note, we have *very* little information on this one other than a brief mention of it being an EAT in an AMA (2014.) 

 

COTEAT - I really hope they’d have a better nickname! Maybe CAT? Let the CATgirl jokes commence...

Origin: Logically, Magic

Side: I’m actually going to say “unknown,” even if red would make sense - because of what I think they’d have been introduced with or near. 

Restriction : Possibly a costume slot dedicated to COT robes. 

 

All we have on them is a mention of a “possible COT Epic.” 

 

However, we *also* have, thanks to the AMAs, a brief sketch of the reworking of the Hollows with the literal rise of Orenbanga - the Hollows would remain a low level zone, but the floating city (with its own diplomatic recognition) a high level, perhaps 50+, zone. *To me,* this would also be an ideal time to introduce the COT EAT to delve specifically into Circle of Thorns lore and politics - we know at least ONE Mage that tried to assist the heroes, and with their having to deal with Heroes, being brought into the modern age thanks to the Rikti invading their city during the first invasion, the Mu still being around as a threat and more, just on top of the bit of tragic storyline that made them what they have been for thousands of years… some may have had a more moderate view and decided to work with heroes versus being forced (side-wise) to work with villains (while being somewhat isolated in the middle of Paragon.) 

 

It’s not verified, at least that I could find, so treat the majority of the above as speculation. But I think it would have been a fascinating dive into them. 

 

Rikti EAT

 

Origin: ? Natural? Mutation?

Side: ??

Restriction: Probably form / costuming, though we know of some Rikti “plants” who look… human-ish. 

 

This is only briefly mentioned in the terms of a Rikti civil war. The True Rikti are also mentioned elsewhere in the AMA, so whether these would have been “True Rikti,” former Lost who have been mutated, even some sort of VEAT-like “Start as Lost, turn into Rikti,” we just don’t know. I’d love to dig up more information - the story possibilities are vast. 

Edited September 4 by Greycat

[Greycat]

The final form of EATs: Purchased ATs

 

Also just given a brief mention. 

 

Epic ATs are, as described, a lot of work. Not only are you coming up with a concept for them, the powerset(s) and related graphics and animation, but you create specific contacts and story arcs for 1-50 - that are restricted to just those ATs playing them. (Obviously you can bring teammates, but only that specific AT type can start the arcs.) 

 

There was mention in the AMAs that thought was given to just creating purchased ATs - I could see these being listed as “Premium AT” or something, with whatever unique quirk they have but no storylines involved. 

 

And I’m only giving them a brief mention because (a) no examples were given, and (b) without the storyline, they’re not really “Epic” ATs - remember, by definition they’re tied to some aspect of the story or lore. But with COH Freedom and a cash store, this (d)evolution does make sense as a direction to take “special” ATs and their availability.

 

UPDATE:

For the moment, I'm listing the Primalist here. (And a couple people have mentioned it.)

 

I hadn't initially added it to this little discussion because I don't know if it would be an Epic AT (and don't know what bit of lore it'd be related to,) a standard AT (though as I type it here, that doesn't make a lot of sense with a single known primary/secondary) or Premium. It was essentially finished, but never implemented in game (with some pieces going to other sets,) with the AT itself being called "too complex."

 

It's another shapeshifting AT - and I'll just point you down to @BillyMailman's post for links to City of Data for the inherent and powersets. So one more "Almost," there.  (And yes, whether it has lore or not, complex or not, I'd be for having it in game, just to see what ideas and characters it would spark - especially if it doesn't have anything lorewise behind it. Just see what people come up with.)

Edited September 5 by Greycat
Primalist added, currently under Premium instead of Epic - thanks @billymailman and @starro for the mention of it

[Shin Magmus]

Nobody cares.

[Videra]

The lore doc from 20 years ago still isn't canon, Grey.

[GM Crumpet]

25 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

Nobody cares.

be nice. If you can't be nice be silent

[GM Crumpet]

20 minutes ago, Videra said:

The lore doc from 20 years ago still isn't canon, Grey.

as I said to Shin, be nice. Pointless snark is beneath you. For some reason I expected better off both of you. I've very disappointed in both of you right now,

[Laucianna]

As much as I love my Kheldian and the lore associated with it, I can not ignore the glaring issue that both the VEATs and HEATs are the lowest played toons in the game and that isn't getting onto the balancing issues 😄 It's cool to know what was planned but personally I am glad it stayed in the bibles and not becoming cannon in game ❤️

[Greycat]

10 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

As much as I love my Kheldian and the lore associated with it, I can not ignore the glaring issue that both the VEATs and HEATs are the lowest played toons in the game and that isn't getting onto the balancing issues 😄 It's cool to know what was planned but personally I am glad it stayed in the bibles and not becoming cannon in game ❤️

 

Which I suspect is part of why they were looking into the purchased ATs. Though it's completely up in the air as to if those would be exceptionally unbalanced or not. On the one hand, going by what we *have* and know was planned, there'd be fewer sets which would make it easier to balance than, say, a Controller (where Earth/FF, for instance, is safe but painfully slow, but Fire/Kin could be an effective farmer.) On the other... they'd want to put in some bang for the bucks. And I don't really like the way that tends to go in other games...

 

 

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Laucianna said:

As much as I love my Kheldian and the lore associated with it, I can not ignore the glaring issue that both the VEATs and HEATs are the lowest played toons in the game and that isn't getting onto the balancing issues 😄 It's cool to know what was planned but personally I am glad it stayed in the bibles and not becoming cannon in game ❤️

A shame really but yeah khelds are pretty low pop. I’d wager lower than crabs n widows but I could be wrong on that

[Seed22]

16 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

be nice. If you can't be nice be silent

Why is this never said to people trolling threads? Legit question. 
 

I get it in this instance but I’m asking for all those very interesting suggestion threads that got trolled by the very people thumbing up your comment, you never told them to shut it when they were being legit trolls so I want to know, why?

 

I am not trying to be snarky, I am legit asking questions, if thats not allowed on these forums I’ll stop

Edited September 5 by Seed22

[GM Crumpet]

4 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

A shame really but yeah khelds are pretty low pop. I’d wager lower than crabs n widows but I could be wrong on that

probably because it's so easy to get them wrong. Well slotted and a handle on the powers and they can be amazing, but as I know from experience they can feel very underpowered until you have a lot of inf for good enhancements and  a good guide to how to play to their strengths and weaknesses. I only got into them after chatting to Laucianna and she helped me really get my head round them.  The VEATs are a lot easier to work out.

[Seed22]

Just now, GM Crumpet said:

probably because it's so easy to get them wrong. Well slotted and a handle on the powers and they can be amazing, but as I know from experience they can feel very underpowered until you have a lot of inf for good enhancements and  a good guide to how to play to their strengths and weaknesses. I only got into them after chatting to Laucianna and she helped me really get my head round them.  The VEATs are a lot easier to work out.

Veats are about as complicated, they have a lot of moving parts, sure no shapeshifting but you can’t just walk into a good VEAT build. They may appear straightforward but they most certainly arent if you’re wanting something really sturdy/well rounded

[Laucianna]

It's also due to that confinement in powers I think, a Scrapper can use a range of different weapons and armours so that appeals more to when you want to make YOUR superhero ❤️ I still wish Kheldians could form energy weapons in their attacks just because the animations on some sets are mouth watering (Dual blades taunt can marry me 😄)

[Glacier Peak]

I think the Praetorian EATs got cut because there was goldside fatigue. There were other zones in development for Praetoria, but same challenge. That being said, those would've been fun to try!

[BillyMailman]

A variety of things worth adding, that are in the data files to this day:

- The Devoured EAT's inherent still exists. In three parts. Basically boils down to a copy of Brute Fury.

- The Hyper-Advanced Clockwork AT has some powers in the data. They got a self-rez inherent, alongside their main inherent, Android Form. Also, that seems to have been the name they settled on, "Hyper-Advanced Clockwork", to explain why player Praetorian Clockworks were, y'know, fully sentient.

- You entirely missed the Primalist, which was basically entirely implemented, though I dunno how much (if any!) lore we ever got for them. The two parts of Primal Energy (1, 2) exist, as do the powersets of Feral Might and Primal Gifts. It was yet another shapeshifting AT, but with mostly the same powers per form, just that they'd mechanically change like how Bio/Staff/DP/etc. can change their powers with different toggles. As the Wiki points out, Posi confirmed at shutdown that the AT was scrapped mostly for being too complex - bits and pieces of it got repurposed into Beast Summoning, Savage Melee, and I think Bio Armour.

 

So yeah, several of the scrapped EATs actually made it partially into the game, even if they never quite saw the light of day.