Tough as nails

[Project]

So what's hands down the toughest secondary a brute can pick up? And don't give me Invul, got an Invul and as he is insanely durable, he also almost kills himself when the unstoppable crashes.

 

So what's the most tough secondary a Brute can pick up?

 

And while we at it, what's the toughest primary? And don't give me fire melee, while it got decent damage (no argue there) it has zero control. The extra dot DMG does not seem to outdo the amount of time mobs spend on their backs from knockdowns or stuns in other sets, or even def debuffs which make every hit strike home. 

 

So which is it? And put an argument to it please 🙂

[PeregrineFalcon]

Stone Armor is the absolute toughest of all of the defensive sets. My argument is that the numbers are the highest.

 

Fire melee is the highest damage output, but you're right, no control. If you want to control go with War Mace or Ice Melee. Energy Melee has a lot of stuns, if you're ok with it having no real AoE.

[Project]

14 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Stone Armor is the absolute toughest of all of the defensive sets. My argument is that the numbers are the highest.

 

Fire melee is the highest damage output, but you're right, no control. If you want to control go with War Mace or Ice Melee. Energy Melee has a lot of stuns, if you're ok with it having no real AoE.

Interesting - However, how do you account for the fact that Stone Armors T9 power don't allow other powers to be stacked, and at the same time slows you and makes deal less damage? Doesn't that kind of take the edge off? 🙂

[Erratic1]

While War Mace does bring control to a high damage set, I'd say Battle Axe edges it out in term of control.

[Project]

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

While War Mace does bring control to a high damage set, I'd say Battle Axe edges it out in term of control.

because of knockdown > stun or another factor?

 

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Project said:

Interesting - However, how do you account for the fact that Stone Armors T9 power don't allow other powers to be stacked, and at the same time slows you and makes deal less damage? Doesn't that kind of take the edge off? 🙂

In raw survival terms Stone and Invulnerability are the top of the heap (Stone top, Inv just behind), but both have downsides you have to work around, just like with every other set. You can take Teleport and Fold Space to deal with Stone's movement issues in Granite form.

 

FWIW, the flexibility gained from Bio and Rad Armor are worth considering taking a slight step down in terms of raw survivability. Also consider raw survivability is only part of the picture, as the choice of primary can significantly impact end survivability e.g. DM/Elec is far greater than the sum of its parts).

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Project said:

because of knockdown > stun or another factor?

 

 

Yeah, the knockdown and ability to move groups with Axe Cyclone (leap backwards as you activate the power and you drag foes with you).

[Without_Pause]

18 minutes ago, Project said:

Interesting - However, how do you account for the fact that Stone Armors T9 power don't allow other powers to be stacked, and at the same time slows you and makes deal less damage? Doesn't that kind of take the edge off? 🙂

You don't take it. I have a Ice/stone Brute. Very few things solo give it an issue and that's not even fully T4ed. FYI, I soloed Council at +4/x8 before 50 so that means +5s were involved. I didn't even need Ice Patch.

[Project]

5 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

You don't take it. I have a Ice/stone Brute. Very few things solo give it an issue and that's not even fully T4ed. FYI, I soloed Council at +4/x8 before 50 so that means +5s were involved. I didn't even need Ice Patch.

That sounds pretty rad 🙂 but don't you miss out like on elec you get a significant T9 with low cost compared to say invul that nearly kills you

[Erratic1]

15 minutes ago, Project said:

That sounds pretty rad 🙂 but don't you miss out like on elec you get a significant T9 with low cost compared to say invul that nearly kills you

Most T9s should only be taken for slotting options and not used (Bio and Rad Armor being an exception).

Edited September 9 by Erratic1

[Project]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

Most T9s should only be taken for slotting options and not used (Bio and Rad Armor being an exception).

Never thought of it like that really 🙂

[Triumphant]

1 hour ago, Project said:

Never thought of it like that really 🙂

 

Well, it's not cut-and dried, and people have various opinions, but many players (including myself) feel that crashing T9's are more trouble than they're worth.  Granite doesn't have this, of course.  But I dislike it for another reason: I hate the fact that it forces a particular visual aesthetic on me that overrides my costume. YMMV, etc.  In addition to Bio and Rad I like Willpower's T9.  Probably some others... can't think of them right now.  I certainly wouldn't make the T9 my priority for choosing a defensive set, though.  There are more important things to consider.

[electric_emu]

2 hours ago, Project said:

Interesting - However, how do you account for the fact that Stone Armors T9 power don't allow other powers to be stacked, and at the same time slows you and makes deal less damage? Doesn't that kind of take the edge off? 🙂

While Granite Armor makes you as tough as tough can get (at the cost of some offense), you're still insanely sturdy with the 'just' your other powers.  You get a little bit of everything - defense, resistance, max HP, regen, even confuse protection.  You're near-unkillable on top of getting an extra damage proc from Brimstone. 

 

I only took Granite on my Ice/Stone Brute as a slot mule lol 

[Uun]

20 hours ago, Project said:

And don't give me Invul, got an Invul and as he is insanely durable, he also almost kills himself when the unstoppable crashes.

Friends don't let friends use Unstoppable. Only useful as a mule, or just skip it. Unleash Potential is a better panic button and has a shorter recharge.

 

I'm not going to single one out as the toughest, but many Brute secondaries can be built plenty tough. Properly built, SR and Shield are virtually unkillable. On the resist side I like Electric due to its heal, endurance management and debuff resistance. Its only real hole is Tx, and to a lesser extent, Ne.

 

Another primary to consider for soft control is Stone Melee. It has 4 powers that do KD (plus one that does KB) as well as a mag 4 hold. It's a bit light on AoE damage but ST hits like a freight train.

[Project]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Friends don't let friends use Unstoppable. Only useful as a mule, or just skip it. Unleash Potential is a better panic button and has a shorter recharge.

 

I'm not going to single one out as the toughest, but many Brute secondaries can be built plenty tough. Properly built, SR and Shield are virtually unkillable. On the resist side I like Electric due to its heal, endurance management and debuff resistance. Its only real hole is Tx, and to a lesser extent, Ne.

 

Another primary to consider for soft control is Stone Melee. It has 4 powers that do KD (plus one that does KB) as well as a mag 4 hold. It's a bit light on AoE damage but ST hits like a freight train.

I'm a villain I have no friends 😄

 

But really, how do people then get to 90%dmg resistance on a set like Invul (outside of S/L) every base resistance outside of S/L is pretty low in Invul 😮

[Without_Pause]

I'll just point out while EA has a bit of a Psy hole, you'll only really notice it soloing on higher diff settings. The things which give it genuine issues is small. I've had it stand in the middle of an x8 sized mob and go, "Yep, I can be here all day." The +Level was likely +2 or +3. I've done EA across all of the ATs which get it. I would likely rank Shield and Sr as Top tier for being unkillable with Stone, EA, and Invul as next in line. I went and looked at Linea's rankings for Tankers and that's roughly the tiers they have them in minus EA as that's not ported to Tankers yet. For Brutes, those are all top tier.

 

 

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Project said:

I'm a villain I have no friends 😄

 

But really, how do people then get to 90%dmg resistance on a set like Invul (outside of S/L) every base resistance outside of S/L is pretty low in Invul 😮

 

90% across the board? They don't. While Invulnerability is typically considered a resistance set, it leans significantly on pushing defense. The less hits land, the lower your resistances can be to match the case of relying solely on resistance.

[Project]

4 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

90% across the board? They don't. While Invulnerability is typically considered a resistance set, it leans significantly on pushing defense. The less hits land, the lower your resistances can be to match the case of relying solely on resistance.

Thanks for clearing that up. I do also play stalker and people always go 'res sucks on stalker as it caps at 75%' buy as far as I can tell few sets get above that in any damage type anyways 😕

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Project said:

Thanks for clearing that up. I do also play stalker and people always go 'res sucks on stalker as it caps at 75%' buy as far as I can tell few sets get above that in any damage type anyways 😕

 

On their own, just relying on SOs, not sure anything does short of playing a Tanker (if then). You rely on enhancement set bonuses to push to caps.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Savage Melee and Stone Armor.

 

Bleed dots, fire pots, and brimstone procs.

 

The best control is zero hp.

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[BurtHutt]

What's the best Brute set to get mostly softcap on RES and high DEF as well?

 

I have a Rad/Stone Brute that is pretty good for this. But is there... better?!

[Without_Pause]

32 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

What's the best Brute set to get mostly softcap on RES and high DEF as well?

 

I have a Rad/Stone Brute that is pretty good for this. But is there... better?!

My guess is Stone, EA, or Invul for a combo of the two, but I haven't really ran the numbers. Stone is better at Psy than the other two, but Stone can be weaker elsewhere. 

[Maelwys]

If you're willing to pick an attack set with a stackable +Defence buff (Katana/Broadsword/Staff/MA/TW) then you can get a little more wiggle room.

Brutes unfortunately don't gain the same raw Resistance values from their powers as Tankers; and their ATOs don't grant additional resistance on demand either. This means that it's much harder to cap multiple resistances on Brutes without overly sacrificing other things like damage output. However it's relatively straightforward to cap a small number of damage resistances (like Smashing+Lethal OR Fire+Cold) on a Brute; which is why so many Brute AE farmers existed prior to the Tanker AoE attack range buffs.
Stone Armor Brutes in "Granite Armor" Form are an obvious exception here; but as others have highlighted, running in Granite comes with its own built-in set of penalties and these days the rest of the set is good enough that a lot of people either skip Granite Armor entirely or use it as a set mule.

My favourite AFK AE Fire Farmer is currently still a Graniteless RadMelee/Stone Brute; despite the fact that Tanker auras are wider.
Their totals look like this (without Earth's Embrace or any other Clicky buffs running)


I've got a BattleAxe/FA Brute who can also AE Farm; but who is much more active (Axe Cyclone into Burn + Pendulum!) and a lot more fun in regular non-farming content.
Their totals look like this:

 

Edited September 11 by Maelwys

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

My guess is Stone, EA, or Invul for a combo of the two, but I haven't really ran the numbers. Stone is better at Psy than the other two, but Stone can be weaker elsewhere. 

 

I would be surprised if EA gets you there.

 

Invulnerable...I feel as if you are going to cap your res you're going to have only moderately decent def, and if you are capping your def you're going to be decent but not at cap res (and if there is a way to do both, no telling what suffers). 

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I would be surprised if EA gets you there.

 

Invulnerable...I feel as if you are going to cap your res you're going to have only moderately decent def, and if you are capping your def you're going to be decent but not at cap res (and if there is a way to do both, no telling what suffers). 

I guess it depends on what all you are trying to cap for Res. I can get 75% Res with S/L and that's without adding in other powers to boost beyond Tough and without Incarnates. I've seen someone post what an Invul Tanker can do with RoP and Melee at the same time, and I'm like, "Well, if that level of shenanigans is allowed..." I can get a SR Scrapper to 72.2% S/L with just RoP and that's not fully slotted for Res. I could easily switch my EA Brute build and have RoP at a practical max Res. At that point, capping 4 different Res types would be within reason.  Again, what is being capped and under what conditions? Does that Def have any DDR?