Allow us to combine 3 inspirations for 1 of the next higher tier

gabrilend · October 1

Say you have 3 respites, currently if you combine them you can only turn them into one of a different type, and the same tier.

However, I think it'd be neat if there was an option to combine them into the same type, but of a slightly higher tier. That way you can save space while still maintaining the types of your capabilities.

separate, sorta related idea, but there could be an option menu option to automatically do so if you run out of space and have 3 of a kind.

Rudra · October 1

Again, you are taking away the only reason to get the Inner Inspiration power and will kill demand for larger inspirations on the AH. So, still, no.

Psyonico · October 1

The thing is, you can buy Tier 1 inspirations from most vendors, so this would completely devalue tier 2 and 3 insps

biostem · October 1

1 hour ago, gabrilend said:

separate, sorta related idea, but there could be an option menu option to automatically do so if you run out of space and have 3 of a kind.

In addition to what @Rudra and @Psyonico have already stated, the game shouldn't be further automated. There are already ways that allow you to directly purchase those larger inspirations, so I don't think we need to undercut those by direct purchases of small inspirations from vendors being able to be made into large ones...

lemming · October 1

Since you can buy smalls for 50 each and Mediums sell for 160 to a vendor, that's a small profit there.

Nine smalls which if converted sell to a vendor for 400, so slight loss. However, large insp sell for quite a bit more on the AH currently and they've dropped a lot in price over the last couple years.

Luminara · October 1

T2 inspirations are stronger because they're less common drops than T1 inspirations. T3 inspirations are stronger than T2 inspirations because they're even less likely to drop. This change would effectively equate to an increase their drop rates, which would necessitate a significant reduction in the drop rates of T1s to balance that. The end result would be T1s dropping far less frequently, T2s being moved to the current T3 drop rate, and T3s dropping about as often as converters or purples.

Basically, it'd fuck over everyone who didn't buy and convert T1s in mass quantities, or buy T3s from the AH, and cram their e-mail full of inspirations.

Not doing that sounds like a better idea.

UltraAlt · October 1

3 hours ago, gabrilend said:

However, I think it'd be neat if there was an option to combine them into the same type, but of a slightly higher tier. That way you can save space while still maintaining the types of your capabilities.

I can see this as being easier to do as a one off kind of thing as just changing it so that any 3 same can combine to make a higher tier any type.

However, here are some things that I would roll into this idea -

1) The ability to convert to a certain Tier would be contingent upon the character level.

I don't know at what character level each tier of insps are currently set at to start randomly dropping, but I would set that as the "unlock" to be able convert 3 inps to that tier or insps.

2) Three of the same kind can convert to the next level of the same kind.

Since the system is already set to convert from one kind to another through the "combining 3 system", this give the option to "upgrade" as well as convert - which I feel thematically fits better than being able to change 3 Tier 1 acc into a Tier 2 Awaken.

3) When the tier upgrade/conversion happens, it will only upgrade/convert to the next higher tier.

Basically, simply because you are level 50, you can't convert tier 1 insps to the highest tier. Converting 3 tier 1 accs would make 1 tier 2 acc - regardless of level (as long as it is unlocked by character level)

This seems like it might be a bit complicated to implement, but it seems like more of a "in concept" rational/system to allow combining for a higher tier.

Insps have grown a bit stale to me at this point.

I lock-out the kind of insps my character doesn't need at the START vendor when I create a character. I tend to carry a column of break frees, a column of awakens (99% of the time for situations when another player needs them [if you are questioning the 99%, you are probably correct, but I'm unsure of how much more than 99% of the time they are for other players]), and the rest are respites. I do purchase all of these through a vendor at an sg base before heading out for adventure.

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Again, you are taking away the only reason to get the Inner Inspiration power and will kill demand for larger inspirations on the AH. So, still, no.

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

The thing is, you can buy Tier 1 inspirations from most vendors, so this would completely devalue tier 2 and 3 insps

Unless you are pushing for this for low level characters that get the high level insp drops for the running the tutorial, I really don't see any infl gain selling on the AH selling inps to be any market that would be so massive that it would cripple anyone if the market changed.

There are plenty of more items for market PvP.

I mean the higher tier insps drop when you reach certain levels and they drop in card packs. I have a bizillion of them (well hundreds of them) from card packs. When it comes down to it, I only very rarely use them.

What this system would do, would be to give grinder/end-gamers something to do. It would be time consuming to buy enough tier 1 insps to convert/upgrade them to Tier 2 in order to get 3 Tier 3 to upgrade the 3 Tier 2s to Tier 3, etc. And it would be in infl sink - I agree that it would be a minor one, but it would pull some infl out of the game.

I don't think it takes away from getting in the Inner Inspiration power at the START vendor either.

As I mentioned above, my tray is pretty much full when I start out on an adventure and I have locked out getting some or mostly all kinds of insps when I create a character. Obviously, it would be most effective to have 3 insp slots open before using the Inner Inspiration power. It tends to be that even if I'm using insps - which I try to avoid doing - they fill up quickly enough that my characters rarely have 3 slots open. When my characters do have 3 slots open and I hit Inner Inspirations, many times I don't get any or just one insp drop in ... sometimes 1 or 2 ... hardly ever 3.

Plus, I as I have also noted, the higher level insps do start dropping at higher levels, and they are drops in card packs as well.

Edited October 1 by UltraAlt
some slight rewording.

Rudra · October 1

11 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Unless you are pushing for this for low level characters that get the high level insp drops for the running the tutorial, I really don't see any infl gain selling on the AH selling inps to be any market that would be so massive that it would cripple anyone if the market changed.

I'm not looking at it from a making money point of view. I'm looking at it as it takes away the reason to even get the Inner Inspiration power at all and it removes an inf' sink from the game. Why even bother going to the AH to buy tier 2, tier 3, or tier 4 inspirations if you can just pop 150 inf' at almost any vendor and have a tier 2 inspiration? 450 for a tier 3?

Right now, looking at the AH, a tier 2 red, Righteous Rage, is selling for 123 inf'. So they'll lose 27 inf' doing the proposed merger instead. A tier 3, Righteous Rage, is listed at 20,000 inf' on the AH at this moment I am typing this. Just spend the 900 inf' at a vendor for 18 tier 1 reds and merge them up to get 2 tier 3 reds and save yourself 19,100 inf', and e-mail them to yourself. Save yourself the 500,000 inf' it costs to get Inner Inspiration if you didn't choose it as your free power from START and instead of waiting once per 30 minutes to get 3 tier 3 inspirations, just crank them out on demand for almost nothing in cost. Hells, for the cost of the Inner Inspiration power (if you don't get it when it is free), you can crank out 555 tier 3 inspirations using the OP. Why even have tiered drop rates for inspirations any more? Why even have less than large inspirations any more? Just load them up at the vendors for 900 inf' apiece and remove tier 1 and 2 inspirations from the game. No. I oppose that. I oppose the OP and any attempt to make the game any easier than it already is.

24 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

There are plenty of more items for market PvP.

I don't consider market PvP.

25 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Plus, I as I have also noted, the higher level insps do start dropping at higher levels, and they are drops in card packs as well.

A Super Pack costs 10,000,000 inf' on the AH per the wiki. For that, the author can skip the Super Pack's random cards and just crank out 111,111 tier 3 inspirations.

FupDup · October 1

On a semi-related note, I think that the "combine 3 to make another type of the same tier" thing should be proliferated to Dual, Team, and Team Dual insps. Right now, unlocking them often just means more inventory clutter because they can't combine.

UltraAlt · October 1

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Why even bother going to the AH to buy tier 2, tier 3, or tier 4 inspirations if you can just pop 150 inf' at almost any vendor and have a tier 2 inspiration? 450 for a tier 3?

Yes. You wouldn't have to any more.

Yes. It would be that cheap if you wanted to take the time to do it that way.

It could also be used to combine/tier up insps while in missions - which is really my take on this plan (that it is for more for in mission/adventure) versus taking time to grind out higher tier insps. That being said, I'm fine is someone wants to sit around and using their crafting time to make higher Tier insps to sell on the /AH.

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Hells, for the cost of the Inner Inspiration power (if you don't get it when it is free), you can crank out 555 tier 3 inspirations using the OP.

Yes. You can take it for free.

And I do know that some players simply use it to crank out high tier insps so that they can sell them even at the slow rate of 3 per 30 minutes.

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Why even have tiered drop rates for inspirations any more?

I covered that.

43 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

1) The ability to convert to a certain Tier would be contingent upon the character level.

I don't know at what character level each tier of insps are currently set at to start randomly dropping, but I would set that as the "unlock" to be able convert 3 inps to that tier or insps.

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Why even have less than large inspirations any more?

Because they are already existing in the game, and - see my quote above about the various tiers not being unlocked until the character reaches the level that they would unlock anyway.

There are still a good number of us that don't just play level 50's.

And there are some of us that virtually never play level 50's.

I have 3. I won't be leveling any more past 49. I rarely ever play my level 50's.

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Just load them up at the vendors for 900 inf' apiece and remove tier 1 and 2 inspirations from the game. No. I oppose that.

I do as well.

21 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I oppose the OP and any attempt to make the game any easier than it already is.

We agree on somethings and we disagree on others.

I see that the game has been made easier to play both before the Sunset and here at Homecoming.

I don't think that is going to change.

I don't see this so much as making the game easier to play, but adding something in that would be interesting.

What is really the difference between a character having higher tier insps through this method versus buying them on the the /AH or using Inner Inspiration?

The only difference seems to be infl.

So this would help the players that don't have a lot of influence, and ... even as you have admitted ... really wouldn't impact someone on the /AH that was trying to generate infl as as selling insps is a very inefficient way of doing so.

25 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I don't consider market PvP.

Market PvP is the most balanced PvP in CoH.

25 minutes ago, Rudra said:

A Super Pack costs 10,000,000 inf' on the AH per the wiki.

Yep. And I buy hundreds of them. I think I opened over 50 last night during a 3 hour game session while another player was taking bios while we were in missions.

When the Winter Packs were on sale for 10mil, I bought over 100 of them. Haven't bought any of them since then. They will apparently never go on sale of 10mil again.

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

For that, the author can skip the Super Pack's random cards and just crank out 111,111 tier 3 inspirations.

Like I said. I rarely ever use the ones that I have saved up from the card packs. I'm more likely to use the team ones (saved up from card packs) but that is usually only limited to AV encounters.

But even if we are talking about selling drops from card packs - that 1 insp would be only 1 of the 5 drops in card packs. The H/V and V/R packs usually drop at least 1 archetype enhancement if not 2.

And obviously, the idea that is proposed wouldn't stop the ability to get those higher tier inps through other methods, it would simply add an additional way to get them.

Would it be easier?

On a mission, yes.

Out of a mission? It would be tedious, and I think many players would go the easier routes and not bother to crank them out.

lemming · October 1

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Plus, I as I have also noted, the higher level insps do start dropping at higher levels, and they are drops in card packs as well.

Only Team and Dual Inspirations drop in Super packs.

Rudra · October 1

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Why even have less than large inspirations any more?

Because they are already existing in the game, and - see my quote above about the various tiers not being unlocked until the character reaches the level that they would unlock anyway.

So were TOs, and yet they have been removed in any meaningful way. The only way to get them now is to go to your SG base and buy them there. That does not take away that if the OP were to be implemented, there would be no reason to retain the small or medium inspirations for dropping any more because large inspirations can be cranked out for ridiculously cheap. So you know the request will come up to have small and medium inspirations 'removed' and larges made available from vendors for the current crafting cost of 900 inf'. There is already a request to do that with incarnate components/powers. (Edit again: And you know that if the OP were to be implemented, even with your limitations in place, there will be follow up requests to remove those limitations so players can upgrade to large inspirations even at level 1. Just look at the enhancement request threads on these forums for proof of that.)

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Market PvP is the most balanced PvP in CoH.

I don't care about PvP in any form. So market PvP means nothing to me. All I see when I look at the AH is a means of getting something for my characters that they currently lack. If I have to outbid others to get it or low-ball bid and pray it goes through sometime in my lifetime, that is fine with me. However, the OP will take away a current inf' sink, in a game where we already have a plethora of players complaining that they are awash in inf' with nothing to use it on.

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Like I said. I rarely ever use the ones that I have saved up from the card packs. I'm more likely to use the team ones (saved up from card packs) but that is usually only limited to AV encounters.

I don't use my inspirations unless I find myself in absolute, undeniable need for them. While I get them more often than the 1/3 missions rate I endured back on Live (RNG hates me*), I still only get them infrequently at most. So I hoard my inspirations. If others are getting them frequently? Kudos to them. Use them. Don't ask to upgrade them and bypass the drop rates for them though. Especially since they can already be bought for cheap from most vendors.

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

We agree on somethings and we disagree on others.

This looks like it is going to be one of those times we adamantly disagree with each other. I'll be looking forward to your responses to this, but I'm not feeling like arguing my point further. (At this time at least.)

(* - My current record, from Live, was 1 enhancement drop and 4 inspiration drops after completing 10 missions where I cleared the maps.)

Edited October 1 by Rudra
Edited to add missing "base" and "there". And again to add missing space and "though".

Enamel_32 · October 1

I had no idea people were making money selling T2 and T3 inspirations. In this economy?

UltraAlt · October 2

1 hour ago, lemming said:

Only Team and Dual Inspirations drop in Super packs.

Thanks. I pull them so rarely that I thought the other high level ones did as well.

UltraAlt · October 2

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

there would be no reason to retain the small or medium inspirations for dropping any more because large inspirations can be cranked out for ridiculously cheap.

I don't think that is true.

There are those of us that would want to retain the drops as they are, and we could chose not to convert/tier up the insp drops by combining or not.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

So you know the request will come up to have small and medium inspirations 'removed' and larges made available from vendors for the current crafting cost of 900 inf'.

I don't think that is true. There are still DO's and SO's even though the invention system was added to the game.

No need to go overboard on trying to go against this. I think we both know it most likely won't happen at any rate.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

(Edit again: And you know that if the OP were to be implemented, even with your limitations in place, there will be follow up requests to remove those limitations so players can upgrade to large inspirations even at level 1. Just look at the enhancement request threads on these forums for proof of that.)

And I would be against that. That I why I put in my 3 suggestions in regard to the OP's idea.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

However, the OP will take away a current inf' sink, in a game where we already have a plethora of players complaining that they are awash in inf' with nothing to use it on.

I'm sure that the players "awash with inf" aren't going to be worried if the inps become cheaper on the /AH market.

Honestly, I think most players that stock on the /AH market are using it for their own or other people's convenience.

I can't say that I haven't overpriced insps on the /AH market to see what it could bear for those that don't have patience or feel like they have time to go to an insp vendor to buy them at the base price ... because I most definitely have.

The only characters that can make any discernible infl on the market for selling even the large insps are a new character being played by a new player that doesn't have other characters to email infl around.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Don't ask to upgrade them and bypass the drop rates for them though. Especially since they can already be bought for cheap from most vendors.

Come on. We can ask for whatever we want.

Most of the time we aren't likely to get it for one reason or another, but we obviously always can ask.

I think it is a cool mechanic to add to the "3 insp conversion" mechanic.

Obviously, you do not.

I agree that we have both made our points.

Thanks for the discussion/debate <---- I'm pretty sure that we can agree on that 😉

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Allow us to combine 3 inspirations for 1 of the next higher tier

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