Fixing Vengeful Slice on dual blades

[WindDemon21]

This power has been absolutely terrible and really needs an update. It's literally the worst single target dpa in a melee set besides parry and DA, that is mainly damage only, no extra special effect besides knockdown which would just mean it's not top tier damage, but should still be good damage as it's really the "big" single target attack in the set and should reflect that, especially for how key it is in this set being part of a combo.

 

It's been well known that it actively decreases your dps by using it even in the combo which is just plain wrong.

 

For starters, it mainly needs the first two hits to be removed since they're basically exactly the same as the tier 1 and adds no special flare, taking it's activation time from 2.43 (sheesh) to about 1.5s (first two hits are very sightly faster than the tier 1's). The power would be much cooler and faster if it was only the last two hits.

 

Then, bring it's damage/recharge up to 10 seconds to give it a little boost in damage but still have it's recharge short enough to flow in the combos, taking it's dpa up to 85.5 on scrapper value, which is still the 3rd largest single target attack in the set so it's not a crazy boost. Ablating strike for what it is also is way over dpa'd, so if needed to compensate the single target dpa that could be lowered to transfer some dpa to this power if needed.

 

This is two fold, in order to make the power actually worth using, but also very largely to give the set some single target mitigation that doesn't absolutely destroy your damage. In its current form, to even equal the same dpa as the tier 1, it would have to be 179.77 damage at 50 with its current animation. Even frozen fists is better dpa than it is and we all know how absolutely terrible that is!

 

The only ST melees that are actually worse than it on a melee AT are divine avalanche and parry but at least those also have the defense bonus added on them as well (those powers also should be sped up some as well, for example make divine avalanche the .83s quick bop on the head like when brawl is used)

 

While at it, shaving some time off 1k cuts would also be greatly appreciated.

[Shin Magmus]

     Vengeful Slice being this terrible is the single defining reason why intentionally avoiding the entire central mechanic of the set and not doing any Combos yields higher DPS than repeating the Attack Vitals Combo.  An attack chain of Blinding Feint -> Ablating Strike -> Sweeping Strike -> Ablating Strike is the most DPS you can do within the set.  This attack chain is simply spamming all of the "good" Dual Blades attacks, at like 210% global Recharge bonus with Hecatomb slotted in AS, while ignoring all of the "bad" Dual Blades attacks.  Every Combo requires you to use a "bad" attack, for no reason other than the purely arbitrary requirement to be used in the combo.

 

     Vengeful Slice is a "bad" attack, and the attack chain of Blinding Feint -> Ablating Strike -> Vengeful Slice -> Sweeping Strike loses entirely because Vengeful Slice is hot garbage.  I agree that this is the sort of thing that should be adjusted if only because it's common sense from a good game design perspective: when players are actively avoiding a set's mechanics in terms of optimization: you fucked up.

[WindDemon21]

Yet another power that still DESPERATELY needs fixed. Please do so. Again remove the first two hits which are basically just a copy of the tier 1, so the power is only the more fun last two hits, and would reduce the cast time down to about 1.4s, and then increase the damage/rech to a value 10s rech, and then up the damage, i'll have to redo the math if needed, but think it was still needing a 50% damage increase at this point with a 10s recharge even with the cast reduction down to 1.4s. Yes the power is THAT f'ing god awful and needs fixed.

[BrandX]

I to believe it's damage should be improved, but I've soloed AVs with Attack Vitals Combo.  

[WindDemon21]

30 minutes ago, BrandX said:

I to believe it's damage should be improved, but I've soloed AVs with Attack Vitals Combo.  

This fix wouldn't improve the st damage at all actually. It would just make the power actually worth taking and using. It'd still be middle of the road dpa after the specifications i gave (yes it really is that bad lol).

 

But the main intent is to make it useful for an actual combo that uses it without seriously debilitating your damage, and make it actually worth using for lower st dps, but to actually be able to use its knockdown for survival against a single target without SUCH a serious dps loss by using it versus attack vitals.

[Chance Jackson]

I support this change

[Steampunkette]

Counter proposal:

 

1) Speed up the animation time. Still four hits, but drop the animation time to around 2 seconds instead of 2.43 seconds. (It looks so cool)

2) Add a -Res debuff to the first hit.

 

 

[WindDemon21]

7 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Counter proposal:

 

1) Speed up the animation time. Still four hits, but drop the animation time to around 2 seconds instead of 2.43 seconds. (It looks so cool)

2) Add a -Res debuff to the first hit.

 

 

That would be something to look into (though still not ideal, those first two hits are literally just nimble slash so just cast it before if you want it to look the same), but base issue still existing of its recharge needing to go up, and it's damage would have to go up even further than I suggested to match the longer animation time.

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

This fix wouldn't improve the st damage at all actually. It would just make the power actually worth taking and using. It'd still be middle of the road dpa after the specifications i gave (yes it really is that bad lol).

 

But the main intent is to make it useful for an actual combo that uses it without seriously debilitating your damage, and make it actually worth using for lower st dps, but to actually be able to use its knockdown for survival against a single target without SUCH a serious dps loss by using it versus attack vitals.

 

Eh, I'd rather see it become good enough that BF > Attack Vitals competes with the top spot for ST DPS.  Have a set that doesn't require godly amounts of recharge to still be a top contender.  

[tidge]

I was very disappointed when playing a Scrapper using Dual Blades. The most disappointing element of the set for me was the lack of an inherent Build Up. So maybe I'd like it better on a Stalker?... of course it is still pretty much only Lethal damage :P

[golstat2003]

23 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Eh, I'd rather see it become good enough that BF > Attack Vitals competes with the top spot for ST DPS.  Have a set that doesn't require godly amounts of recharge to still be a top contender.  

Agreed.

[golstat2003]

13 minutes ago, tidge said:

I was very disappointed when playing a Scrapper using Dual Blades. The most disappointing element of the set for me was the lack of an inherent Build Up. So maybe I'd like it better on a Stalker?... of course it is still pretty much only Lethal damage 😛

I had one one live and DB was underwhelming no matter what AT I played it on.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The most disappointing element of the set for me was the lack of an inherent Build Up.

It's similar to claws.

 

My badger is a DB/WP scrapper.    They're good with a lot of tough challenges, so I've never felt underpowered.   The biggest problem i get is the target dies before I finish a combo.  That said, I wouldn't mind an improvement.

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, lemming said:

It's similar to claws.

 

My badger is a DB/WP scrapper.    They're good with a lot of tough challenges, so I've never felt underpowered.   The biggest problem i get is the target dies before I finish a combo.  That said, I wouldn't mind an improvement.

 

Exactly.  I soloed ITF with no Incarnates with a DB/WP Scrapper back on live.  I know BF > Attack Vitals > Repeat isn't the best of the best DPS, but it was enough for me to solo AVs and solo an ITF.   I think people hate on it a little to much.  

 

That said, I do agree I'd like Vengeful Slice (who's animation I personally don't want changed as I love it) needs a damage boost.

[golstat2003]

One other option to fix DB is to let you start the combo with ANY DB attack. Though not sure the dev team would like this one. 😛