Best Offense, Defense, and Support

[Tankshock]

According to a scientific study with a margin of error of  0.00027%, the following 3 builds are the best "money is no object" in the game:

Offense: Fire/TA Blaster

Defense: Rad/MA Tank

Support: DP/Time Defender

The requirement is to be able to help any team in any type of content in the given role.  I will only accept peer reviewed comments from those with a PhD in COH.  Well reasoned and documented disagreements will be entered in the study, but only as examples of why they are wrong.

Edited Tuesday at 02:31 PM by Tankshock

[jprewitt73]

I agree with everything you said and your arguments are flawless. 

 

I will now vote for you. 

 

[Ukase]

There are flaws in the logic from the start.
First, while Fire/TA is a fine combo, there's zero evidence to suggest your scientific study is valid or even statistically significant. Where is this study? What is the evidence? 
Rad armor for the best defense? Nonsense. Best survival? Maybe...but it all depends on how a player builds it and slots it, right? 

There are no hard fast rules for "This is best in class", because people build their characters differently. 
Now, it could be that you may have an affinity for a certain AT/powerset combination and can really make them shine. And if that is the case, great. But can you also make a fire/ice tank shine? No DDR with the fire tank, but if you build it with 104% s/l resist, haven't you essentially built in 14% ddr? (That's always been my understanding) 
Your assumption on the DP/Time Defender being best support is in my estimation so dependent on the player to make the assertion ridiculous. 

There is no best. There are some fantastic players that have excellent manual dexterity with incredible out of the box (and in the box, too) thinking that can make the worst look amazing. And sadly, there are players that can take what most would agree be an awesome build and play it like it's trash - because they're distracted, or it's not that important to them, or they lack the experience or understanding of what they should be doing. 

What are you really after here? 

[Maelwys]

6 minutes ago, Ukase said:

What are you really after here? 

Presumably Lulz.
(besides, everyone KNOWS the best there is is a Claws/Regen Scrapper...) 😄

If we're just posting some "most generically useful" builds, then we'd need to point at stuff like Ice/Cold Corruptors; Tankers with the Teleport Pool; and a Nature Affinity anything.

[Etched]

My 3 picks in my opinion works well for ME.

 

Offense  - Fire/MA Blaster.  Fire has some good AoEs and MA does great STA. Plus being able to tp into a mob and nuke is fun.

 

Defense  - Shield/WM. I feel Shield provides adequate def/resist to me keep me goin, also add in Shield Charge you have an explosive start to a fight. War Mace just devastates, with great STA and PBAoEs.

 

Support - Kin/Electric.  Everyone loves a kin and Electric does fairly well for being a defender. A good assortment of single and AoEs.

 

This is my opinion,  I do not speak for others nor am I saying these are the best by no means.

 

But they are fun to play. 🙃

Edited Tuesday at 03:46 PM by Etched

[Tankshock]

46 minutes ago, Ukase said:

<psychobabble>

 

So much wrong here, but I will address it for educational purposes.  😉 Rad paired with MA is best because MA gives it basically maxed out resist and defense.  Rad has 2 AoE to help MA's single targetness, including the OP Radiation Therapy, one of the best powers in the game.  Rad has a reliable Force Feedback mule as well in Dragon Tail.  It can actively tank anything.  The only drawback to Rad/MA on teams is that it can end up destroying spawns before anyone else gets to play.

This is about fully optimized slotting play, so we are in agreement on DP/Time.  Absolutely amazing toon, makes any team better.

Edited Tuesday at 03:56 PM by Tankshock

[Tankshock]

34 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Presumably Lulz.
(besides, everyone KNOWS the best there is is a Claws/Regen Scrapper...) 😄

If we're just posting some "most generically useful" builds, then we'd need to point at stuff like Ice/Cold Corruptors; Tankers with the Teleport Pool; and a Nature Affinity anything.

Ice/Cold is definitely very solid.  Only mark down is that the f/x can't be turned off.  I'm completely over Teleport, tho.  Right up there with KB for most annoying power to team with, maybe even worse since it doesn't matter if the player knows how to use it well.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, Tankshock said:

DP/Time Defender

 

From a scientific perspective, you don't even get primary/secondary in the right order.

 

I love me some Dual Pistols, however, unless you're running cryo or chem rounds it brings very little support to the table (and most players would argue that the only thing to run in 99.9% of content is incendiary).  So I would disagree with the assertion that it is the best for support.  Additionally, it is not top tier for damage either.

 

I'm not going to argue about which defender primary provides the best support.  It really depends on way too many factors, including what content you're playing.  I'll agree that Time is up there, but not 100% sure it's the all-around best of the best.

[Maelwys]

3 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

 I'm completely over Teleport, tho.  Right up there with KB for most annoying power to team with, maybe even worse since it doesn't matter if the player knows how to use it well.

 

I said the Teleport Pool, not Fold Space.

 

Fold Space is so situational that it's a firm skip on most characters.

 

Combat teleport on the other hand is extremely useful for Melee toons in a world of jagged polygons and "prefer ranged" AI. No lag time for group-hopping carnage.

[Icono04]

6 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Ice/Cold is definitely very solid. 

This statement makes me question your credentials as a top scientist in COHology. A true scientist would have expressed that as "Ice/Cold has been determined within a statistically acceptable margin of error to be very structurally cohesive. "

 

As for my own scientific credentials, I do not have a Ph.D. in CoH per your requirements, but I do sometimes sweep floors, which I assume makes me like the cleaning crew guy in Good Will Hunting - cleverer than the scientists at the institute even though all he does is sweep said institute's floors. Are those credentials sufficient to post in your thread?

[Tankshock]

4 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

From a scientific perspective, you don't even get primary/secondary in the right order.

 

I love me some Dual Pistols, however, unless you're running cryo or chem rounds it brings very little support to the table (and most players would argue that the only thing to run in 99.9% of content is incendiary).  So I would disagree with the assertion that it is the best for support.  Additionally, it is not top tier for damage either.

 

I'm not going to argue about which defender primary provides the best support.  It really depends on way too many factors, including what content you're playing.  I'll agree that Time is up there, but not 100% sure it's the all-around best of the best.

DP keeps opponents at 30-50% resistance debuffed.  That's the best team support debuff in the current iteration of the game.

I'll grant you that Time might only be 99% probability of being the best.  But that's only to avoid an argument.  😉  It's so good on virtually any team.  Max defenses, great recharge, healing, accuracy.  You can grab noobs and let them feel the power of being a hero, and any vet team loves recharge and -resist.

[Tankshock]

5 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

I said the Teleport Pool, not Fold Space.

 

Fold Space is so situational that it's a firm skip on most characters.

 

Combat teleport on the other hand is extremely useful for Melee toons in a world of jagged polygons and "prefer ranged" AI. No lag time for group-hopping carnage.

Ok, this qualifies as peer review.  

[PeregrineFalcon]

53 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Rad paired with MA is best because MA gives it basically maxed out resist and defense.

Ok, now I have to know how Martial Arts gives max Resist and Defense.

[Tankshock]

Paired with Rad, it provides the Def to basically max out both pretty easily.  Plus the healing from Rad Therapy spam.  Amazing combo of AoE, ST, and high survivability.  Joking aside.  😉

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Tankshock said:

 Amazing combo of AoE, ST, and high survivability.  Joking aside.  😉

Sounds like all Tankers tbh. Most Tankers will solo very well whatever combo and for the harder content....well get a team and buff up and spam barrier lol.

 

I don't think 10% defense from MA puts it above other attack sets paired with RadA. 😘

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:18 PM by Gobbledigook

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Tankshock said:

Rad has a reliable Force Feedback mule as well in Dragon Tail. 

You're talking nonsense man. Or, you're not reading my post, or you're just having some fun. All of that is fine - but this proves my point. 
YOU may put a "reliable Force Feedback mule in Dragon Tail, but not everyone will. 

If they don't, stands to reason there's a lot of other things they don't do that you might do. So, clearly, you're talking about a more specific case of what AT/powerset combo is best for YOU. 

Please try not to confuse newer players who may not realize the imprecision you're offering here as wisdom. It's just preference - which is super cool. I get it, but I like fire/fire and fire/ma more than rad/ma, as far as tanks go. And that's not thinking of the AE farm environment, but all environments from banished pantheons, to nemesis to arachnos. (although, if it weren't for fire's super fast heal, those damned awakened would be groups I'd avoid. Those guys can hurt you quick if you're not careful. ) 

I love shield/mace on a tank. It has the satisfying crunch of mace, with the satisfying opener of Shield Charge. It's super fun! I probably could squeeze a little more out of my build. The character is a few years old, and I've learned some things between then and now. 

For my time, 
 

Offense: Fire/ice blaster - I like TA as a secondary on a corruptor. But not for a blaster. It has it's merits, clearly. But for me, ice is nice. And Fire/ice is awesome. 

Defense: Shield/Mace Tank - for me, it's just a lot more fun than Rad anything. No charge, no fun. So, in some cases, I like Electric Armor, too, if I want a resist based armor. 

Support: Fire/Natty corruptor...corruptor over defender because Scourge. Sometime the best defense is a good offense. 

These are my own preferences. I dare not cast any illusions they are best of anything, particularly given how obtuse I can be on the battlefield. But fire/ice, particularly for advanced mode is just about as good as you're gonna get. At least, that's what loc told me, and he's way smarter than me. 

[lemming]

For 80-90% of the content:

Offense:  Whatever you want

Defense: Whatever you want

Support: Whatever you want

 

(All percentages completely made up)

 

My personnel opinions:  Fire blasters, any tankers, most support.  (Added def? Great!  Kinetics? Great!  Healing? Great!)

[Tankshock]

36 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

Sounds like all Tankers tbh. Most Tankers will solo very well whatever combo and for the harder content....well get a team and buff up and spam barrier lol.

 

I don't think 10% defense from MA puts it above other attack sets paired with RadA. 😘

 

 

I agree that for most content, tanker survivability is not a concern.  But when it does matter, the def from MA marries best with Resistance sets.  It's largely wasted when paired with SR or SD, for instance.  MA also has nice ST, while Rad has 2 good AOE.

[Tankshock]

48 minutes ago, Ukase said:

You're talking nonsense man. Or, you're not reading my post, or you're just having some fun. All of that is fine - but this proves my point. 
YOU may put a "reliable Force Feedback mule in Dragon Tail, but not everyone will. 

If they don't, stands to reason there's a lot of other things they don't do that you might do. So, clearly, you're talking about a more specific case of what AT/powerset combo is best for YOU. 

Please try not to confuse newer players who may not realize the imprecision you're offering here as wisdom. It's just preference - which is super cool. I get it, but I like fire/fire and fire/ma more than rad/ma, as far as tanks go. And that's not thinking of the AE farm environment, but all environments from banished pantheons, to nemesis to arachnos. (although, if it weren't for fire's super fast heal, those damned awakened would be groups I'd avoid. Those guys can hurt you quick if you're not careful. ) 

I love shield/mace on a tank. It has the satisfying crunch of mace, with the satisfying opener of Shield Charge. It's super fun! I probably could squeeze a little more out of my build. The character is a few years old, and I've learned some things between then and now. 

For my time, 
 

Offense: Fire/ice blaster - I like TA as a secondary on a corruptor. But not for a blaster. It has it's merits, clearly. But for me, ice is nice. And Fire/ice is awesome. 

Defense: Shield/Mace Tank - for me, it's just a lot more fun than Rad anything. No charge, no fun. So, in some cases, I like Electric Armor, too, if I want a resist based armor. 

Support: Fire/Natty corruptor...corruptor over defender because Scourge. Sometime the best defense is a good offense. 

These are my own preferences. I dare not cast any illusions they are best of anything, particularly given how obtuse I can be on the battlefield. But fire/ice, particularly for advanced mode is just about as good as you're gonna get. At least, that's what loc told me, and he's way smarter than me. 

One of us is definitely not reading the other.  😉

If a new person sees "high end" and thinks it applies to them, well I approve of that mindset, but...

And it's not my problem if someone doesn't put FF in Dragons Tail.  I'm talking about optimal slotting here.  😉

Edited Tuesday at 07:09 PM by Tankshock

[Nemu]

What a crock of shit

 

Everyone knows a staff/regen brute with whirlwind is best at everything. In fact anything with whirlwind trumps the bestness of any of those shitty combos you listed, but staff/regain with whirlwind is the absolute BEST!

 

SPINNING IS WINNING!

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Etched said:

Defense  - Shield/WM. I feel Shield provides adequate def/resist to me keep me goin, also add in Shield Charge you have an explosive start to a fight. War Mace just devastates, with great STA and PBAoEs.

So you haven't played /fire then. Fire has the best Trapdoor clear times, is far less resisted, and has no real End issues. Certainly not even in the same ballpark as my WM Brute does. 

[Tankshock]

Shield Charge is nice, but Rad Therapy is just better.  DPS, recharge, heal.

Ice is a nice secondary for Blaster, but TA has the extra AOE needed to be the best Offense.  At least that's what the data shows.  Glue Arrow and Oil Slick mean you never stop doing high end AOE, even in a kill most ITF.

[Without_Pause]

11 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Shield Charge is nice, but Rad Therapy is just better.  DPS, recharge, heal.

I'll take actual DDR.

[High_Beam]

5 hours ago, Tankshock said:

Support: DP/Time Defender

So good in fact that I stopped playing mine around level 36 and moved her to my junk pile on Everlasting awaiting component removal.

[Tankshock]

Agreed, DDR makes Shield always a good choice.  Esp with the typed changes.

But max resist with high healing means it never really matters.