Random Presence Pool + Invention Enhancement Thought

[Snarky]

Half baked.  Unworkable. 
 

nice of you to self diagnose though.  
 

cheers

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Genuinely curious how KB2KD works. My best guess is that it floors the knockback distance aspect.

It reduces the KB magnitude of the power to 0.67. At 0.67 magnitude, the target does not get moved anywhere, just knocked down.

 

3 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

In our placate PROC, we could try reducing the magnitude or duration to such insanely low levels that it's only active for a single frame.

It does not matter how much you reduce the magnitude or duration of a taunt power. It still does not pacify the target. Placate and Taunt effects are not related to each other, they are completely different statuses.

[megaericzero]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It reduces the KB magnitude of the power to 0.67. At 0.67 magnitude, the target does not get moved anywhere, just knocked down.

 

So we... use it to reduce the taunt to 0.01 magnitude?

 

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It does not matter how much you reduce the magnitude or duration of a taunt power. It still does not pacify the target. Placate and Taunt effects are not related to each other, they are completely different statuses.

Right. You would reduce the taunt and add a placate PROC. Unless you're saying an enhancement can't have two unique effects because coding reasons, which is fair. Last I remember, though, at least one of the KB2KD is "knockback to knockdown AND adds knockdown if the power doesn't have it."

 

On a different note, I genuinely appreciate the discussion - Luminara, Rudra, FupDup, Super Atom, Snarky. Even though I'm arguing some, I still think it's as a constructive back-and-forth.

Edited 9 hours ago by megaericzero

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Unless you're saying an enhancement can't have two unique effects because coding reasons, which is fair.

No, that isn't what I am saying.

 

13 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

You would reduce the taunt and add a placate PROC.

A proc that applies a placate effect. Okay, I understand. Is it a ST effect or an AoE effect? You would also need to reduce the taunt's duration because the taunt will apply before the proc so I'm betting granting protection won't do anything because protection prevents you from being affected up to a certain magnitude but not how long you are affected. And since the target will be affected before the proc affects him/her/them/it, protection won't matter because the character is already being taunted for the power's duration. That means the proc would have to include a power that grants the target some ridiculously high status resistance to taunt effects, and that would then make those targets effectively immune to friends/team mates that try to taunt the target into going after them as well.

 

Edit: And even if you reduce the taunt's magnitude, unless the target has taunt protection, the magnitude doesn't matter.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Rudra

[megaericzero]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

A proc that applies a placate effect. Okay, I understand. Is it a ST effect or an AoE effect? You would also need to reduce the taunt's duration because the taunt will apply before the proc so I'm betting granting protection won't do anything because protection prevents you from being affected up to a certain magnitude but not how long you are affected. And since the target will be affected before the proc affects him/her/them/it, protection won't matter because the character is already being taunted for the power's duration. That means the proc would have to include a power that grants the target some ridiculously high status resistance to taunt effects, and that would then make those targets effectively immune to friends/team mates that try to taunt the target into going after them as well.

 

Edit: And even if you reduce the taunt's magnitude, unless the target has taunt protection, the magnitude doesn't matter.

For the placate portion, single-target. We're just looking to recreate Pacify in some capacity.

 

For the taunt portion, I'm confused. Assuming KB2KD reduces mag, we just crank taunt down to either 0.01 or 0.00 depending on which is possible. If it can't be true zero, there's still concern that any nonzero value would still accidentally taunt the target since mobs don't ubiquitously have any taunt protection, so for that we apply another "anti-enhancement" to floor the duration of the taunt. Alternatively, if KB2KD doesn't reduce mag but instead reduces distance - and assuming that that's considered the equivalent to other mezzes' duration, we set the taunt to 0.01s duration. After that, we have the placate apply after some arbitrary delay so it activates after the taunt wore off.

 

EDIT: Wait... can PROCs have a delay or do they all activate the instant the power rolls the dice? But, also, is there something wrong with like 1ms taunt overlapping placate? Does it cancel the placate?

 

--

 

EDIT 2: Oh god I didn't think about taunt auras! Forget Blazing Aura or Mud Pots - they'll just nix it by doing damage - but having Invincibility, Rise to the Challenge, or Against All Odds periodically roll placate on nearby foes. I'm both concerned and morbidly curious. And Stalkers would ironically miss out since they can't have taunt auras.

Edited 6 hours ago by megaericzero

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

Alternatively, if KB2KD doesn't reduce mag but instead reduces distance

I told you, procs that change KB to KD do so by reducing the magnitude of the KB effect to 0.67, at which point the KB is still taking effect, but there is no distance because of how low the magnitude is, resulting in a KD effect. That is how KB works. Below a certain threshold, KB is KD. (Edit: KB distance is determined by the KB's magnitude after any resistances.)

 

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

we just crank taunt down to either 0.01 or 0.00 depending on which is possible. If it can't be true zero, there's still concern that any nonzero value would still accidentally taunt the target since mobs don't ubiquitously have any taunt protection,

I'm not going state if 0 magnitude from whatever the power's magnitude is originally is possible, because I don't know. That's a dev question.

 

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

so for that we apply another "anti-enhancement" to floor the duration of the taunt.

Neither am I going to say if it is possible or not to reduce a power's duration by enhancement. That is a dev question as well, though it would require the devs add to the code for power duration if you insist on not going the resistance route. Otherwise you will need to have a power in the proc that grants the target sufficient status resistance to effectively negate the taunt, which will apply to any and every taunt that anyone may apply to the target in that window of application, keeping in mind that the placate effect only applies for the user.

 

Regardless, you are still talking about taking away a power I am using, requiring me to respec to get a different power, and then dedicate an extra enhancement slot to that power to maintain the enhancements I have in it plus another to convert the taunt to a placate effect. (Edit again: Hells, it would require me to respec because the power I have no longer exists as far as the game is concerned, so my character would be rendered invalid.) So I still oppose the OP. (Edit yet again: So the OP boils down to a forced respec on players already using the Presence pool for no benefit to the game, changing a pool in a manner that as already stated will not entice more players into taking the set but may cause players using the set to abandon it or at the very least have to completely re-consider and re-make their builds to free up enhancement slots to get the same powers they already have via enhancements that their existing powers already give them, and adding more complexity to the game's mechanics/code for no reason other than to make change itself.)

 

 

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

Wait... can PROCs have a delay or do they all activate the instant the power rolls the dice?

To the best of my understanding, they check to see if they trigger when you activate the power, and then apply their effect. Some look like they apply their proc before the power fires, but they don't. (Edit: Though making a proc delay its effect shouldn't be any different than making a power delay its effect, and that already happens.)

 

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

But, also, is there something wrong with like 1ms taunt overlapping placate? Does it cancel the placate?

Placates are neutralized by affecting the enemy with a power that notifies the enemy. So if they fire at the same time, assuming the game doesn't get confused, the placate dies as the taunt notifies the enemy. Just like when slotting a damage proc into Pacify, you pacify the enemy and the enemy keeps attacking you because you broke the placate effect.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Rudra

[Shin Magmus]

It took 2 seconds for someone to argue against your suggestion and say that they like the bad power or the bad way something currently is, and that improving it will hurt their build.  Beanbag moment, beanbag thread.

[Frozen Burn]

I am against this idea entirely.  I have toons that use Placate, and others that use Provoke, so I like having both of these powers in the set.  We do not need to rework the set to try and put a new 5th power in there that people might want to use.  Pool Power sets are meant to have their powers picked and chosen from to enhance your build. 

 

If you're trying to take all the powers in the set, you might be gimping yourself elsewhere in your build - it is perfectly acceptable to have a couple skippable powers in a Pool set.  And I mean "skippable" by one toon my skip some powers while another may take them and skip others. 

 

So, it is perfectly fine for a set to have 2 powers that work in opposition of one another (Pacify and Provoke) as the set needs to cater to all and NOT just some while leaving the others to HAVE to use a certain IO proc to turn a power into something different.