Knockfree power

[Nerio72]

A temp power or something that could be bought at START vendor that does no damage or anything, just knocks randos out of walls/ceilings/floors/objects etc. Not sure it would be easy/feasible but it would be nice to get the one dude you need to progress unstuck WITHOUT calling for a GM. Some toons dont have any powers that can really be useful in knocking people out of walls.

[Rudra]

Teleport Target and Fold Space are powers anyone can get.

[Nerio72]

That is true, but that takes a slot for an occasional use thing. Its not really common enough I want to burn a slot.

[Pleonast]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and Fold Space are powers anyone can get.

Those powers can do a lot more than knock a foe free from geometry. And they also cost a power slot. 

[Rudra]

Just now, Pleonast said:

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and Fold Space are powers anyone can get.

Those powers can do a lot more than knock a foe free from geometry.

How is that a bad thing?

 

1 minute ago, Pleonast said:

And they also cost a power slot. 

So?

[Nerio72]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

So?

So that's not what I'm asking for. I get what you are saying, but that's not what I want. I know there are powers that do it.

[srmalloy]

The problem I see with this is that it breaks the way targeting works — while it could be coded to work only on "target blocked" mobs, that leaves the possibility of it being used on targets that aren't stuck in a wall, just around a corner; given the fact that the game doesn't auto-reposition stuck mobs, I don't think the game engine can identify a mob as being stuck in the geometry, and I don't think it can tell the difference between LoS being blocked due to the mob's position relative to the attacker, and LoS being blocked due to the mob being physically in the geometry. It would be a complex coding problem to keep it from being misused.

[Nerio72]

1 minute ago, srmalloy said:

The problem I see with this is that it breaks the way targeting works — while it could be coded to work only on "target blocked" mobs, that leaves the possibility of it being used on targets that aren't stuck in a wall, just around a corner; given the fact that the game doesn't auto-reposition stuck mobs, I don't think the game engine can identify a mob as being stuck in the geometry, and I don't think it can tell the difference between LoS being blocked due to the mob's position relative to the attacker, and LoS being blocked due to the mob being physically in the geometry. It would be a complex coding problem to keep it from being misused.

Yeah it might not be an easy thing to do. And if not of course I dont want/expect any time wasted on it. Just a QOL idea. Not gamebreaking by any means.

[lemming]

Just the ability to say /stuck at a target.    If not stuck, it would ignore.   

Though maybe characters that find themselves where they are stuck like that, they could do it themselves.   Seems to only happen if you wander away far enough from the stuck mobs do they manage to pull themselves out.

[Nerio72]

Yes that would be awesome, but not sure if the game can recognize that something is stuck like it can for us 🤔

Obviously this just happened to me is what made me think about it and I did try to leave and come back and I even died to try and use RTB to knock him out, but to no use 🤨

[mistagoat]

Jeez! This would be so nice!

I kinda doubt it's possible but a boy can dream!

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

A temp power or something that could be bought at START vendor that does no damage or anything, just knocks randos out of walls/ceilings/floors/objects etc. Not sure it would be easy/feasible but it would be nice to get the one dude you need to progress unstuck WITHOUT calling for a GM. Some toons dont have any powers that can really be useful in knocking people out of walls.

 

Agreed.

 

And though....

 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and Fold Space are powers anyone can get.

 

... most times that I'm on DFB runs, the characters are so low in level that they don't have power pools unlocked yet and a bit early to take a pick like teleport target instead of another primary or secondary power.

 

In my own experience, I have seen more enemies knocked through the walls in the Lost caves in DFBs than in any other content in the game. Honestly, only seeing one enemy knocked through a wall in any content outside of the said Lost caves section of DFB.

 

As this happens at such a low level, I definitely support a power through the START vendor to pull enemies out of walls.

 

If the thought of it being abused to replace teleport target or fold space, give it an 1-2 hour recharge time. After all, enemies don't get knocked through walls all that often.

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by UltraAlt
punctuation correction

[megaericzero]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

2 hours ago, Pleonast said:

And they also cost a power slot.

So?

Nerio's request is trying to address a concrete bug. That shouldn't require a player to adjust their build.

 

I do agree with others that the proposed solution has too much room for explotation, though, so best to use the existing solutions (including your suggestion to take Teleport Target).

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

2 hours ago, Pleonast said:

And they also cost a power slot.

So?

Nerio's request is trying to address a concrete bug. That shouldn't require a player to adjust their build.

And yet my response you are quoting and that @Nerio72 elected to respond to as if I was directing my comment to @Nerio72 was a response to @Pleonast. That powers exist that do what the OP wants but takes a power slot choice is not something I find to be a problem. If players don't want to use said already available options? Fine. More power to them. "It costs a power slot" though as justification for another power? Not an argument I will ever accept.

 

(Edit: At least @UltraAlt made a sensible argument in favor of the OP. That even Teleport Target may not be an available option. Even if only in select situations.)

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Rudra

[UltraAlt]

15 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

I do agree with others that the proposed solution has too much room for explotation

 

Would a 1 or 2 hour recharge time remove it being exploitive?

[Nerio72]

Just now, Rudra said:

And yet my response you are quoting and that @Nerio72 elected to respond to as if I was directing my comment to @Nerio72 was a response to @Pleonast. That powers exist that do what the OP wants but takes a power slot choice is not something I find to be a problem. If players don't want to use said already available options? Fine. More power to them. "It costs a power slot" though as justification for another power? Not an argument I will ever accept.

That's not what I asked for tho. I'm not asking for anything that has ANY use other than to remove an NPC from walls, etc. It shouldn't cost a powerslot. You don't find it to be a problem, great...I do. You don't need to accept it.

 

You are welcome to disagree with this idea, but you really don't need to try and make this an argument. Please.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

That's not what I asked for tho. I'm not asking for anything that has ANY use other than to remove an NPC from walls, etc. It shouldn't cost a powerslot. You don't find it to be a problem, great...I do. You don't need to accept it.

 

You are welcome to disagree with this idea, but you really don't need to try and make this an argument. Please.

I wasn't and am not making it an argument. People were responding to my comments, so I am responding to theirs. That said, like @srmalloy points out, how is the game supposed to know if the target the player chooses to use your proposed power on is actually stuck in the map geometry?

 

Edit: Players don't get "stuck" flags and I'm pretty sure NPCs don't either. I'm not even sure the game can even check for that. That's why players use the /stuck command in some of my bases even when they aren't stuck. It moves them back to the entrance regardless of where they are and what they are doing at the time.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Rudra

[Nerio72]

Ok great. Its hard to tell from text only sometimes how someone means something.

 

I don't know how the mechanics of it work and if there is no way to do it fine, but it couldn't hurt to ask right? If its not something they even want to look at that's fine. But the game obviously knows when WE are stuck...

 

 

[Nerio72]

Yeah I guess that is what /stuck does is just moves you a bit. Hmmmm🤔

[megaericzero]

@Rudra: Right. The context wasn't divorced from the original suggestion, though. In fact, it's a pretty direct progression.

 

3 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

Yeah I guess that is what /stuck does is just moves you a bit. Hmmmm🤔

If I had to guess - and this is a really presumptive guess - it probably shoves you towards the nearest NPC pathing node.

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

But the game obviously knows when WE are stuck...

 

3 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

Yeah I guess that is what /stuck does is just moves you a bit. Hmmmm🤔

 

3 hours ago, megaericzero said:

If I had to guess - and this is a really presumptive guess - it probably shoves you towards the nearest NPC pathing node.

 

Then I'm assuming that people wouldn't have an issue with a /stucktarget - that only targets enemies (teleport target used to be two different powers, one of which was teleport foe. So that seems doable as the game can tell who is an enemy. But it might be usable to prank in PvP, if the game treats PVE and PVP targets the same - if so disable it in PVP).

You could still put it in the START vendor (maybe even putting /stuck in the START vendor wouldn't be such a bad idea so it would be easy for new players to find).

 

If all it does is ...

 

3 hours ago, megaericzero said:

shoves you towards the nearest NPC pathing node

 

... then hopefully that would be acceptable.

Of course, /stucktarget would be "shoving" the "target" toward the nearest NPC pathing.

 

However, as it would work as /stuck, I wouldn't put a long timer on it if implemented in this manner as sometimes /stuck doesn't work the first time.

Sure a team would have multiple shot at it, but, as we know, there are many that solo at this point.

 

I have a feeling that Teleport Target version would be more reliable for moving a stuck enemy out of or from behind a wall. Make it 100% chance of going off and recharge every 1 or 2 hours.

 

As I said before, I have had only one encounter here on Homecoming where there was an enemy "stuck in a wall" outside of the DFB. 

In that case, the enemy wasn't just stuck in the wall, it was running around on the other side of the wall trying to find a way back into the mission map. it would return to around the spot that it was knocked through and then run off again.

[Uun]

19 hours ago, Rudra said:

Teleport Target and Fold Space are powers anyone can get.

Teleport Target only works on minions.