sentinel Ice primary a bit unpopular

[desarix]

Is it because the damage is so-so? I get that they have not adjusted it but I always loved the animations and the fact that you had some crowd control element in it. I've recently come back to play and kind of fallen in love with sentinels although from the traffic here I would assume it is not a popular AT.

 

Anyone have a good ice primary build they find good or is it really not as good as some of the other primaries. I suppose fire has the most damage. I have a dual pistol/ninjitsu build I adore and am in 30's. However I would like another build I can try out for fun. Isn't creating alts a creed on Homecoming.

[Maelwys]

15 minutes ago, desarix said:

Is it because the damage is so-so? I get that they have not adjusted it

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.ice_blast.freeze_ray&at=blaster
https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.ice_blast.chilling_ray&at=sentinel

That's why.
 

On Sentinels they took most of the Ranged Blast sets; then removed the Snipes + "normalised" the Nuke recharge + reduced the maximum target caps of most AoEs.
However they also adjusted most of the single Target mez effects (e.g. holds) to ensure they dealt appreciable damage and had similar CC durations.
For most sets this has been a buff - Tesla Cage from Elec Blast actually deals pretty good damage on a Sentinel.
However Freeze Ray from Ice Blast already dealt decent damage; and they absolutely gutted it. They reduced its damage, nearly doubled its activation time and made it a sleep instead of a hold.

Ice Blast is still reasonable on Sentinels, but unfortunately it's not a top-tier set; even when fully procced out.

Elec Blast on the other hand is surprisingly good on Sentinels.

 

Edited February 4 by Maelwys

[desarix]

Okay thank you so much for the explanation. I shall abandon the idea and check out electric blast instead. Dark has an element of control to it too , hmm might consider it also.

[Maelwys]

I'm not a huge fan of Sentinels; however the one that I still play occasionally is Dark Blast.
As a set it's a little bit lacking in AoE damage but has nice ST (especially when procced out) and doesn't need to close to melee range for anything except the Nuke.
It's also got very good synergy with the likes of SR, which is better than usual on a Sentinel due to Master Brawler.

(Mine's a Dark/Energy Aura; but I did dabble with Dark/SR!)

[desarix]

I'll check out the build thread for some ideas .

[Maelwys]

Sentinel - Dark Blast - Energy Aura.mbd

Chain/DPS Math:

Spoiler

And FWIW here's my last attempt at getting Ice Blast to work:

zSentinel - Ice Blast - SR (Elec Mastery).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - SR (Leviathan M).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - SR (Psionic M).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - Electric Armor (Elec Mastery).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - Electric Armor (Leviathan M).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - Electric Armor (Psionic M).mbd
zSentinel - Ice Blast - Energy Aura (+Procs).mbd
 zSentinel - Ice Blast - Energy Aura (+Rech).mbd

Chain/DPS Math for the /EnergyAura variant:

Spoiler

 

[desarix]

Oh wow you really did try. I appreciate the builds thank you. I will try the Ice blast/SR ahh well be mediocre and never succeed but the it might be fun. Or I'll be the coward and play Electric Blast .🤪

Edited February 4 by desarix

[FupDup]

In regards to Chilling Ray and other Sent snipe replacements (I'm counting Freeze Ray as a snipe here due to its uber damage and unlock tier), I made a spreadsheet to compare just how much each one of them lost: 

 

 

Chilling Ray lost the most compared to its Blaster counterpart, and by a pretty extreme margin. For reference, the majority of Sentinel attacks only have a 2.5% lower DPA than their Blaster counterparts (nukes and snipers being the main outliers, plus the stun attacks like Tesla Cage).

Edited February 4 by FupDup

[desarix]

That is a 50% loss 😟. Psychic also. Well that puts it in perspective. Archery and Electric seems to be one of the least affected and perhaps is better, all things being equal but blasters have other tools to increase their damage. Looking at everything you have posted so helpfully I understand the disparity and reluctance of people playing sentinels.

Edited February 4 by desarix

[Maelwys]

22 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Chilling Ray lost the most compared to its Blaster counterpart, and by a pretty extreme margin. For reference, that majority of Sentinel attacks only have a 2.5% lower DPA than their Blaster counterparts (nukes and snipers being the main outliers, plus the stun attacks like Tesla Cage).

Agreed. And unlike some of the other powersets listed, this especially hurts Ice Blast users because the power in question was such a big part of its optimal attack chain.

Which means that in order to make a viable attack chain on an Ice Blast Sentinel you're forced to either suffer using Chilling Ray or some combination of one of the lower-DPA T1 and T2 blasts and/or an Epic attack (which isn't as viable these days since Dominate was nerfed!). All of which drag your DPA down. The only saving grace of the set is that Bitter Ice Blast is still good (at least until you look at Blaze)

Elec Blast on the other hand came out waaaaaay ahead because not only did it gain in Snipe damage; but it also got handed a viable extra attack in Tesla Cage AND some of the best performing Epics Pool Powers (Elec Mastery's Havoc Punch + Shocking Field; or Mu Mastery's Thunder Strike) are thematically aligned with it.

[Hogunn]

Elec/Elec on Sentinels is awesome. I have two attack chains that floor whole enemy group’s endurance. A great hold. A great heal. Regen. Recovery. And decent resists. Baddies just stand there and blink at you while you pick them off. 

[Hitback]

On 2/4/2025 at 2:52 PM, desarix said:

That is a 50% loss 😟. Psychic also. Well that puts it in perspective. Archery and Electric seems to be one of the least affected and perhaps is better, all things being equal but blasters have other tools to increase their damage. Looking at everything you have posted so helpfully I understand the disparity and reluctance of people playing sentinels.

 

Ice is still around 4th place among primaries in terms of dps. For me, the real hit was the T9 standardisation. Blizzard had a longer cd, but better dmg. Now all T9s do roughly the same damage, except Blizzard takes 8 seconds, whereas most other nukes are instant. Archery is pretty bad for Sent, unfortunatelly. Its ST is bad even for Blasters, except Sents also lose the spammable Rain of Arrows that carries the Blaster version.

 

Elec is the clear winner, like others have said. Not only do they get Zapping Bolt and Tesla Cage, but they can actually play the end drain mini-game successfully because Sentinels' Thunderous Blast is so spammable. Opening with drains their entire blue bar so that all your other attacks can do zapping damage.

 

If you can tolerate the disintegrate mini-game, Beam is also a top-tier set, better than the Blaster version.

Seismic is also up there, but having to stay on the ground removes your ability to hoverblast, which sentinels are so good at.

 

On 2/4/2025 at 3:04 PM, Maelwys said:

Elec Blast on the other hand came out waaaaaay ahead because not only did it gain in Snipe damage; but it also got handed a viable extra attack in Tesla Cage AND some of the best performing Epics Pool Powers (Elec Mastery's Havoc Punch + Shocking Field; or Mu Mastery's Thunder Strike) are thematically aligned with it.

Don't forget Ion judgment being a thematic fit.

[Psiphon]

Personally I prefer ice to electric. You can drop blizzard and ice storm and then use ST damage or frost breath to stack the damage. 

I've tried Electric Blast on every AT that it's available on and always felt a bit meh to me. 

I'd go ice blast. 

[Maelwys]

9 hours ago, Hitback said:

Archery is pretty bad for Sent, unfortunatelly. Its ST is bad even for Blasters, except Sents also lose the spammable Rain of Arrows that carries the Blaster version.

 

There's one thing that Archery still has going for it... Rain of Arrows is the only power Sentinels get across all their Primaries (there are one or two such as Ground Zero on their secondaries) that has a target cap higher than 10.

[desarix]

I am not a hover fan. Never enjoyed moving around with it and only play with combat jumping. I am really clumsy with hover I keep running into wall lights and get stuck in some protrusion or another and have to back out then go back forward so I will lag behind. I already lag behind constantly and it is not as if I am not pressing the forward as hard as possible. I am always the last one into a mission as it is. Why does everyone move faster than me.

 

Anyway hover is out but I picked up Storm, yeah, yeah I know but it is a fun set. I need to put one overwhelming force on my Jet Stream but otherwise it looks like an interesting set. It is rather an unexpected flavour and one I might enjoy. Has CC in spades. Yeah I am one for CC. My very first (well first of the ones I kept) on live was a gravity/empathy controller.

 

I've just fallen in love with Sentinels and people were arguing on Excelsior yesterday that no one picks them for the end game groups. Well not that I ever expected to be picked as I am a really bad player but I play fun sets and what I enjoy. It used to be MMs I made like 30 different ones and when I came back recently I found I no longer relished playing them because I'm now using a controller to play so the fact that there are far more buttons to press it became a chore to manage so they have been relegated to  another page or pages.

 

Worst comes to worst I'll solo end game. Probably sobbing ''waaaaaaaa nobody wants me'' ever so often.

 

I love changing secondaries and after swearing up and down I will not enjoy Bio fell in love with it but I need to have variety I never make two toons with the same secondary. I want to try a Beam Rifle build, may be paired with Stone Armour. 

[Psiphon]

12 hours ago, desarix said:

I am not a hover fan. Never enjoyed moving around with it and only play with combat jumping. I am really clumsy with hover I keep running into wall lights and get stuck in some protrusion or another and have to back out then go back forward so I will lag behind. I already lag behind constantly and it is not as if I am not pressing the forward as hard as possible. I am always the last one into a mission as it is. Why does everyone move faster than me.

 

Anyway hover is out but I picked up Storm, yeah, yeah I know but it is a fun set. I need to put one overwhelming force on my Jet Stream but otherwise it looks like an interesting set. It is rather an unexpected flavour and one I might enjoy. Has CC in spades. Yeah I am one for CC. My very first (well first of the ones I kept) on live was a gravity/empathy controller.

 

I've just fallen in love with Sentinels and people were arguing on Excelsior yesterday that no one picks them for the end game groups. Well not that I ever expected to be picked as I am a really bad player but I play fun sets and what I enjoy. It used to be MMs I made like 30 different ones and when I came back recently I found I no longer relished playing them because I'm now using a controller to play so the fact that there are far more buttons to press it became a chore to manage so they have been relegated to  another page or pages.

 

Worst comes to worst I'll solo end game. Probably sobbing ''waaaaaaaa nobody wants me'' ever so often.

 

I love changing secondaries and after swearing up and down I will not enjoy Bio fell in love with it but I need to have variety I never make two toons with the same secondary. I want to try a Beam Rifle build, may be paired with Stone Armour. 

When you say that some think that Sentinels aren't picked for end game groups what were you referring to? 

I've got loads of Sentinels amongst other ATs and have never had a problem joining a team with any of them. 

[desarix]

9 hours ago, Psiphon said:

When you say that some think that Sentinels aren't picked for end game groups what were you referring to? 

I've got loads of Sentinels amongst other ATs and have never had a problem joining a team with any of them. 

It was in the Help channel and people were saying don't use this channel but the person who started the topic said he was helping others by telling them not to choose a Sentinel and regret it later at end game when doing 4 star content. Then people started saying why Sentinels were bad among which it was that they were the last picks and every other AT was better at what they did. But one person said they preferred a good Sentinel to a bad Blaster which is neither here nor there. Mostly it was because a well equipped AT would all perform better than a well equipped Sentinel.

 

This is not something that concerns me as I already suffer from a feeling that I am unable to play well so I wasn't paying that much attention but some newer players started asking questions and I didn't follow after that. Look I know the AT was in a bad way before but I personally have seen an improvement after coming back. I am sorry if I have inadvertently picked at a scab here but really it was a passing comment and me and my big mouth had to mention it. I am sure in General channel they slag on every AT but I don't have General on my visible chat so this was of notice because it was in the Help channel.

[Psiphon]

4 hours ago, desarix said:

It was in the Help channel and people were saying don't use this channel but the person who started the topic said he was helping others by telling them not to choose a Sentinel and regret it later at end game when doing 4 star content. Then people started saying why Sentinels were bad among which it was that they were the last picks and every other AT was better at what they did. But one person said they preferred a good Sentinel to a bad Blaster which is neither here nor there. Mostly it was because a well equipped AT would all perform better than a well equipped Sentinel.

 

This is not something that concerns me as I already suffer from a feeling that I am unable to play well so I wasn't paying that much attention but some newer players started asking questions and I didn't follow after that. Look I know the AT was in a bad way before but I personally have seen an improvement after coming back. I am sorry if I have inadvertently picked at a scab here but really it was a passing comment and me and my big mouth had to mention it. I am sure in General channel they slag on every AT but I don't have General on my visible chat so this was of notice because it was in the Help channel.

Thank you for the clarification, personally I don't like doing the four star content it seems more dependant on temporary powers and specific builds. There's no reason why Sentinels couldn't do this as well as any other AT though. 

I play on Excelsior and have never been rejected on a team. 

I've got many variants of all ATs, my go to are usually Sentinels; good mixture of damage and survivability. 

Have fun. 

[Maelwys]

5 hours ago, desarix said:

the person who started the topic said he was helping others by telling them not to choose a Sentinel and regret it later at end game when doing 4 star content.

If joining random Four Star content runs is your goal; by all means choose one of the specific flavour-of-the-month builds.

Whilst that content can be run by almost any toon; it's considerably faster whenever you choose toons/build combinations that go all-in on generating maximum damage output and leave the bulk of the damage mitigation to constantly rotating Defensive Incarnate Clickies. So naturally stuff like Ice/Cold Corruptors are often going to get first dibs; especially if you're PUGing. However personally I'd always choose a Sentinel who was conscientious enough to make a separate dedicated build for 4 Star content over another "meta" DPS who just rocked up with their generic do-everything PVE build.

Further Reading: 

That said... Four Star content is a very niche thing; even assuming you view CoH as one of those games that doesn't really start until after hitting the level cap (and over all the years I've been playing... I can count the number of players I've encountered who hold that view on one hand!)
 

Edited Friday at 01:41 PM by Maelwys

[desarix]

4 star looks like the raiding equivalent in other MMORPGs and I was never into it even when I was younger and more nimble. I only play for fun with groups not bust my head trying to absolutely maximize my build with summons and temporary powers and stuff. I doubt that is my thing. I will dodder around and still just join any group willing to have me. If I need some challenge I will try to solo some mission on harder difficulties but 4 star is way beyond me. I like making a gazillion alts.

Edited Friday at 01:53 PM by desarix

[Hitback]

On 2/13/2025 at 8:59 AM, Maelwys said:

 

There's one thing that Archery still has going for it... Rain of Arrows is the only power Sentinels get across all their Primaries (there are one or two such as Ground Zero on their secondaries) that has a target cap higher than 10.

 

There are two more, Rain of Fire and Whirlpool.

[Riverdusk]

7 hours ago, desarix said:

4 star looks like the raiding equivalent in other MMORPGs and I was never into it even when I was younger and more nimble. I only play for fun with groups not bust my head trying to absolutely maximize my build with summons and temporary powers and stuff. I doubt that is my thing. I will dodder around and still just join any group willing to have me. If I need some challenge I will try to solo some mission on harder difficulties but 4 star is way beyond me. I like making a gazillion alts.

 

 I wouldn't worry about star content.  Keep in mind it isn't even part of the original game, it was added by HC.  I never bother as it just sounds like a headache to me.  Play what is fun to you.  There is a ton of content in this game.  

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Hitback said:

 

There are two more, Rain of Fire and Whirlpool.

 

Fair point! I must have missed a few pseudopets... 😀

[arcane]

9 hours ago, Psiphon said:

Thank you for the clarification, personally I don't like doing the four star content it seems more dependant on temporary powers and specific builds.

FYI temporary powers are disabled on four star content so are definitely irrelevant.
 

And four star teams usually have room for 1-2 carry slots, so it’s not exclusive to meta builds; there’s just less room on the team for non-meta.

[desarix]

Look I'm not putting them down or anything. I mean we all play to have fun. Playing meta builds can be a blast and so much fun to do well when you have put in the effort but just saying it is not for me. I am not  being jealous and upset about it. I am just saying people do comment  when they see two sentinels in the group 'have sentinels suddenly become good ' or why is everyone rolling sentinels' (DFB group). It is just a  thing people do like the guy who was leading Posi 1 , I asked how the Crab AT was and he said it is bad at lower levels and hasn't improved much but he was exemplaring down from 50 so obviously he liked it enough to take to 50. Sometimes I think people say what is expected.

 

Fine because life is short and there are a 1000 slots .  I mean play what you enjoy and that includes doing 4 star content.