Liability Posted Monday at 06:20 PM Posted Monday at 06:20 PM Looking at the stats it seems like Invulnerability / Energy Melee would make a great tanker, but I hardly see any builds on here and not many out in the wild. Do they secretly suck, or am I just not looking in the right place? I'd love to roll one. 1
Biff Pow Posted Monday at 09:40 PM Posted Monday at 09:40 PM My main Biff Pow is Invulnerability/Energy Melee. I think you see less of them because EM's AoE attacks are weaker, and the set doesn't have as powerful a feel as Super Strength (with KO Blow and Footstomp's big boom), but it's very strong against hard targets, and you don't have to watch for a Rage crash.
Black_Assassin Posted Monday at 10:10 PM Posted Monday at 10:10 PM Invuln/EM is one of the classic combos back when sets were much more limited. Worth a shot! Ive got a Bio/EM and he hits like a truck, and Invuln has long been one of the premier set and forget tanker primaries. @Black Assassin - Torchbearer
Psiphon Posted Tuesday at 02:39 AM Posted Tuesday at 02:39 AM I had an Invuln/EM before the shutdown that I loved, I started to level it again but got distracted by other newer sets. Certainly nothing wrong with it, survivable and hits hard.
Heatstroke Posted Tuesday at 03:32 PM Posted Tuesday at 03:32 PM Just because you dont see a bunch of builds for something doesnt mean that it isnt good. Many people play multiple different builds. I myself have probably 8-10 different tank builds that I play across accounts/servers and thats just the tanks. Inv/Em has been around since 'live" 20 years ago, and because its not one of the " newer " powersets it might not get as much coverage as new stuff like Bio, Rad and things that are being built specifically for farming. I always say this... LEARN TO MAKE YOUR OWN BUILDS.. Then you dont need to rely on other people's builds. You will discover what works for you and whats fun for you, and you might find something that isnt super popular but is very fun. And yes I have an Inv/Em 1
Liability Posted Tuesday at 04:08 PM Author Posted Tuesday at 04:08 PM 34 minutes ago, Heatstroke said: Just because you dont see a bunch of builds for something doesnt mean that it isnt good. It's mostly that I see a ton of Super Strength builds and a decent amount of Dark Melee by comparison. 18 hours ago, Biff Pow said: I think you see less of them because EM's AoE attacks are weaker, and the set doesn't have as powerful a feel as Super Strength (with KO Blow and Footstomp's big boom), but it's very strong against hard targets, and you don't have to watch for a Rage crash. Is the weaker AoE noticable, or mitigated enough by Incarnate abilities? Super Strength seems like the clear winner, but also just so... boring.
tidge Posted Tuesday at 04:19 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:19 PM My original character on Day 0 Live was an Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker. On Live, this was neither a favorable Primary nor Secondary. The Primary fell behind the "no risk XP" of Fire, and "rooted". The Secondary stun effects were problematic because of critter AI/movement. Things got better (ehem, Unyielding), up until the Stuns from EM were seen as being lopsided in PVP, and then that era's EM rework kinda ruined the single-target focus of the secondary. Jump to now, on Homecoming: This is an awesome combo (current EM isn't quite what I wanted, but it is perfectly fine... I think it was a minority of folks that liked the ST Stun, and I feel that not having it was sort of a backwards look at PVP balance) and the primary doesn't even really have the "Psi Hole" that used to fret a lot of players of old. Invulnerability is pretty easy to slot to increasing levels of awesome... I find it to be so easy that when I'm casually making a build with an armor that I don't particularly want to see graphics I have to go out of my way to make a different choice. Other choices do exist, but I find a cookie-cutter Invulnerability build to be something easy to work with for 95% of the game's content. Energy Melee... as noted by others... doesn't have an impressive set of PBAoE (especially with Invulnerability as the primary) to leverage improved radius for %damage slotting. This has the effect of Invuln/EM tankers falling behind other Tanker combos for the measure of "cleaning up scrubs". I think this is pretty close to my current "general purpose" build for post-page 5. I have a second build with some slight tweaks for "harder" content, but this build was used to face-tank Lord Recluse on a successful Master of Ms. Liberty run. Spoiler Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee Power Pool: Force of Will Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery ------------ Level 1: Resist Physical Damage (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40 Level 1: Barrage (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All): Level 50 Level 2: Temp Invulnerability (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP: Level 50 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40 Level 4: Bone Smasher (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 Level 6: Mighty Leap (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 8: Unyielding (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 Level 10: Weaken Resolve (A) HamiO:Lysosome Exposure (Accuracy / -Defense / -ToHit) Level 53 (*) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage: Level 30 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage: Level 50 Level 12: Taunt (A) Mocking Beratement - Taunt: Level 50 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 50 (*) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Range: Level 50 (*) Mocking Beratement - Recharge: Level 50 Level 14: Wall of Force (A) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal): Level 50 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy): Level 50 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire): Level 50 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 20 Level 16: Whirling Hands (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure (Accuracy/Damage): Level 53 (*) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30 (*) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage: Level 50 (*) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb: Level 50 (*) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage: Level 50 Level 18: Invincibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50 (*) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 50 (*) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure (Endurance/ ToHit/Defense) (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 Level 20: Dull Pain (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal: Level 50 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb: Level 50 Level 22: Tough Hide (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30 Level 24: Total Focus (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50 (*) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage: Level 50 (*) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40 Level 26: Build Up (A) Recharge Speed IO: Level 50+5 (A) Recharge Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Resist Energies (A) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50 (*) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40 Level 30: Energy Transfer (A) Hecatomb - Damage: Level 50 (*) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 50 (*) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40 Level 32: Maneuvers (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense: Level 50 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage: Level 50 Level 35: Resist Elements (A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40 Level 38: Boxing (A) Gladiator’s Strike (Accuracy/Damage): Level 50+5 Level 41: Tough (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50 Level 44: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50 Level 47: Focused Accuracy (A) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception: Level 20 Level 49: Physical Perfection (A) Performance Shifter- %Heal: Level50 Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Sprint (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO: Level 50 Level 4: Athletic Run Level 2: Swift (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Health (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50 (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
Onlyasandwich Posted Tuesday at 04:20 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:20 PM 10 minutes ago, Liability said: Super Strength seems like the clear winner, but also just so... boring. Subjective there for sure! I find Super Strength super fun, but can appreciate why you wouldn't be inspired by a "vanilla" combo like this. The aoe in EM is pretty solid these days, especially with Power Crash in Energy focus mode. On my own EM, I personally just have Whirling +epic aoe. It's not going to win any aoe competitions, but it gets along fine, and with outstanding ST damage of course.
tidge Posted Tuesday at 04:29 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:29 PM Specific to this question: 11 minutes ago, Liability said: Is the weaker AoE noticable, or mitigated enough by Incarnate abilities? Super Strength seems like the clear winner, but also just so... boring. Tanker AoEs have (now) been increased (in most attacks) so that it no longer takes Tankers an order of magnitude longer to clear up typical spawns (that are mostly minions) than other ATs. Prior to this Homecoming change, I had Controllers that could clear maps faster than Tankers, entirely because of the AoEs available to Controllers. Incarnates don't really enter the equation IMO, except for Destiny, because it can be used to cover whatever a single tanker may be "missing". In the build I posted above, that build uses Wall of Force to "close the gap" with other Primary/Secondary Tankers in terms of AoE clearing of scrubs... at least with those that don't also use the Force of Will pool. I like Wall of Force because it is available so early... and because Invulnerability can (IMO, YMMV) delay one (or more) of the resistance toggles it is easy to have that attack ASAP. The only pool power I like as much as Wall of Force for Tankers that can be taken earlier is Combat Teleport.
Thraxen Posted Tuesday at 04:41 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:41 PM I have a en/inv scrapper. He is a lot of fun. I imagine it would be fun and easier to slot up on a tanker. 1
PeregrineFalcon Posted Tuesday at 04:42 PM Posted Tuesday at 04:42 PM 22 hours ago, Liability said: Do they secretly suck, or am I just not looking in the right place? I'd love to roll one. The character who ended up becoming my main on the retail servers was an Invul/EM Tanker. And it was the first character I recreated on Homecoming. I love the combo. Will you burn down entire groups of enemies as quickly as /Fire would? No. But you can drop a single boss, or even EB, a lot faster than /Fire or even /SS can. More importantly, the pom-poms of death are just fun to play with. Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.
Heatstroke Posted Wednesday at 12:36 AM Posted Wednesday at 12:36 AM (edited) 8 hours ago, Liability said: It's mostly that I see a ton of Super Strength builds and a decent amount of Dark Melee by comparison. Is the weaker AoE noticable, or mitigated enough by Incarnate abilities? Super Strength seems like the clear winner, but also just so... boring. Again see builds is not an inidcation of what is good or isnt good. You see a lot of Inv/SS because its a classically icon hero thing. Just think of the sheer amount of characters that fly, are hard to damage and have super strength . Dark Melee has synergy with Inv because Inv is a defense based set and since the main secondary effect of Dark is -to hit, it has good synergy with Defense based sets. EM works perfectly fine. I had good single target damage and decent AoE. Once again just because you dont see A LOT of builds, that doesnt mean the powerset isnt good. Edited Wednesday at 12:36 AM by Heatstroke
Biff Pow Posted Wednesday at 01:26 AM Posted Wednesday at 01:26 AM 9 hours ago, Liability said: Is the weaker AoE noticable, or mitigated enough by Incarnate abilities? Super Strength seems like the clear winner, but also just so... boring. It's honestly not bad. Energy Melee has a cone and a Melee AoE, Super Strength just has Footstomp (which has a longer recharge than both.) It's more the feel of stunning enemies vs. shaking the screen and knocking them down. Part of the reason I slot the Avalanche set in Whirling Hands is it just feels weird if my Tank isn't knocking people down. 1
WuTang Posted Wednesday at 03:03 PM Posted Wednesday at 03:03 PM Definitely, everyone has their own opinion... I don't have an EM, SS, or DM Tanker, but I do have them on Brutes, and I don't particularly like SS nor DM, though I did get them to work. And picking a power just because someone says it "hits like a truck," like I did, isn't what I'd advise. My EM Brute is one of my favorites...though Whirling Hands does look more like a dance move than a power move.
Erratic1 Posted Wednesday at 03:53 PM Posted Wednesday at 03:53 PM 50 minutes ago, WuTang said: My EM Brute is one of my favorites...though Whirling Hands does look more like a dance move than a power move. You do end in a cool looking crouch. 😁 1 1
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