The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, JJDrakken said:

Problem with that, he always making "copies" of DC/Marvel stuff. He's always asking how to make so n so on AT General.

And if they do create that "too close" copy of any character in-game, I'll be right there with you, rooting for them to be generic'd.  Until such time, I see no issue asking how to create any character in-game.  We aren't in grade school here - the time to act is when a rule is violated, and not a moment sooner, and we certainly won't get anywhere assuming every poster does so with bad intentions...

Edited Saturday at 02:53 AM by biostem

[El D]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

The only difference is that those conversations took place decades ago, behind closed doors.  My point is that we should be focusing on what the OP, (or any other player, for that matter), does with the information provided.  If they do the boring thing and just do 1:1 copies, then that's on them and they should be genericed and possibly banned, but if they use that information as a jumping-off point to create their own faction and characters, (though still inspired by the BoEM), then there's zero issues...

 

That's all the difference needed though, since no one can actually prove any particular inspiration was taken in the creation of Manticore (or any other signature character). OP did this openly and in public, so for better or worse the arc will now always be 'My version of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.' At that point what they change matters less when the GMs already know it's explicitly based on someone else's IP. No amount of separation negates that admission. A GM might be able to allow wiggle room with character that could possibly be inspired by Magneto, but there's less room to work with 'So I made Magneto, and Toad, and Quicksilver, and Blob, and then changed X, Y, and Z to not get in trouble with the rules.'

 

OP might be a fantastic writer whose AE arc for this concept could be amazing - as an X-Men fan myself I probably would enjoy playing it! - but if HC is operating under enhanced scrutiny and wants to put a better foot forward regarding these things, at a certain point someone was going to catch their attention. I will totally agree with the prior point that such threads and characters should be handled similarly and fairly going forward, though. Which may very well just be 'Hey, don't state it outright and we're all golden.'

Edited Saturday at 03:07 AM by El D

[Scarlet Shocker]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm pretty sure that was the OP's intent all along...

To me, that was very unclear from the OPs original post.

 

He's literally asking what powers some of the BoEM would have if created in this game. That's not even close to a similar approximation

 

You're speaking on his behalf with little evidence so far as I can tell.

[Scarlet Shocker]

8 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I like to think I can write a decent arc (though, the 5 mission limit rather constrains things).  I just like adding little "easter eggs" in missions.  In the arc I'm planning out, the idea is that you'll likely end up rescuing a group of mutants who are being held as prisoners... for being mutants.  It's a classic X-Men thing, so I thought it might be fun to include some characters where players might get the reference.  It's not critical to the story or anything.

 

So it's basically X-Men characters in a copy of an X-Men story?

[Sovera]

It depends on the name, the costume, and the description. If none of the three are close enough then I don't think a Super Reflexes/Street Justice Tanker will ring any bells as Quicksilver, as they have it on the original post.

 

We'd need the OP to chime in before continuing to assume.

[DoctorDitko]

May I humbly suggest, as a skating-by-on-the-parody-clause character myself, that the OP (and the game) would be better served by recasting the original ask?

 

Say:

I'd like suggestions on making these guys in an AE arc:

 

Neodymium - a magnet-themed leader-type

Tree-frog - a hopping mad minion

The Slob - a big sloppy guy who soaks damage

 

et cetera. 

That way, the HC guys have no trouble, the players may or may not be in on the jest, and the OP gets (hopefully) helpful advice.

[Ultimo]

31 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

May I humbly suggest, as a skating-by-on-the-parody-clause character myself, that the OP (and the game) would be better served by recasting the original ask?

 

Say:

I'd like suggestions on making these guys in an AE arc:

 

Neodymium - a magnet-themed leader-type

Tree-frog - a hopping mad minion

The Slob - a big sloppy guy who soaks damage

 

et cetera. 

That way, the HC guys have no trouble, the players may or may not be in on the jest, and the OP gets (hopefully) helpful advice.

That's fair... but not quite what I was looking for.

 

None of the characters I'm planning for would look like the comics characters.  They're liable to just be people who happen to have powers like the characters from the comics, and not even have codenames (though, they might... some of them, anyway).  It's all still bouncing around in my brain.  It's entirely possible I'll not bother, especially given the reaction I'm seeing here.

[DoctorDitko]

Don't give up! No one is saying that!

But the title of this thread is enough to make folks uneasy.

 

(Here goes Grandpa with a history lesson!)

Back in 2004 a bunch of Marvel's lawyers got accounts on CoH, logged on, and proceeded to make the most infringing characters they could. Marvel then sued NCSoft, submitting screenshots of those characters as evidence that CoH was a big ol' grab at Marvel's IP.

 

You can look up the details, but it really was a most sordid affair, and one that could well have consigned our City to the "ashcan" of comics history. Marvel was desperate in those days, and it showed. The judge figured it out, and dismissed the case, but everyone who remembers it is just a bit more skittish than they might be otherwise.

 

 

[Octogoat]

9 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Don't give up! No one is saying that!

But the title of this thread is enough to make folks uneasy.

 

(Here goes Grandpa with a history lesson!)

Back in 2004 a bunch of Marvel's lawyers got accounts on CoH, logged on, and proceeded to make the most infringing characters they could. Marvel then sued NCSoft, submitting screenshots of those characters as evidence that CoH was a big ol' grab at Marvel's IP.

 

You can look up the details, but it really was a most sordid affair, and one that could well have consigned our City to the "ashcan" of comics history. Marvel was desperate in those days, and it showed. The judge figured it out, and dismissed the case, but everyone who remembers it is just a bit more skittish than they might be otherwise.

 

 

Ouch

[Forager]

OP,

 

Intellectual property law is neither mysterious nor complicated, but it is a bit like obscenity laws in that there's no short explanation that would satisfy a lay person.

 

I don't think it would help, but it's always surprising to me that people would speak on it before doing a brief internet search.

 

There is zero useful information in this thread for you in regards to intellectual property. A GM said "don't do it" but nobody has even agreed what "it" is.

 

"Based on" was probably the mistake. Just do "loosely inspired by" or maybe "kind of in the theme of" for future questions and maybe people wont twist themselves up so much. Asking for powersets for established characters would most likely land your subsequent creations somewhere between "unoriginal" and "theft" though. Good luck.

 

 

[JJDrakken]

5 hours ago, Forager said:

OP,

 

Intellectual property law is neither mysterious nor complicated, but it is a bit like obscenity laws in that there's no short explanation that would satisfy a lay person.

 

I don't think it would help, but it's always surprising to me that people would speak on it before doing a brief internet search.

 

There is zero useful information in this thread for you in regards to intellectual property. A GM said "don't do it" but nobody has even agreed what "it" is.

 

"Based on" was probably the mistake. Just do "loosely inspired by" or maybe "kind of in the theme of" for future questions and maybe people wont twist themselves up so much. Asking for powersets for established characters would most likely land your subsequent creations somewhere between "unoriginal" and "theft" though. Good luck.

 

 

 

It's more then that.

 

1. Folks are worried DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, etc.. gets wind of this again and lawsuits start flying at NCSoft like back in the day.  That means trouble for CoH recent ok from them.

 

2. The Mouse is very sue happy.  If they haven't already if they get wind of CoH Back and start seeing stuff.  Well we know how that's going go. Folks here get worried.

 

3. While being inspired is always thing in creativity for humans. Flat out copying is honestly not a form of flattery as folks say.  To a lot of community folks here it just shows laziness. (Maybe that's just me -shrugs-)

 

4. Finally person is known to basically copy all current comic stuff in CoH. On the AT forum, they are always saying. Going make X, Y, & Z. What AT or powers would fit best. So look at previous 3 statements.

[Ultimo]

9 hours ago, JJDrakken said:

 

It's more then that.

 

1. Folks are worried DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, etc.. gets wind of this again and lawsuits start flying at NCSoft like back in the day.  That means trouble for CoH recent ok from them.

 

2. The Mouse is very sue happy.  If they haven't already if they get wind of CoH Back and start seeing stuff.  Well we know how that's going go. Folks here get worried.

 

3. While being inspired is always thing in creativity for humans. Flat out copying is honestly not a form of flattery as folks say.  To a lot of community folks here it just shows laziness. (Maybe that's just me -shrugs-)

 

4. Finally person is known to basically copy all current comic stuff in CoH. On the AT forum, they are always saying. Going make X, Y, & Z. What AT or powers would fit best. So look at previous 3 statements.

#4 is a fair point, a lot of my characters are based to some degree on existing characters, though they may not look like their inspirations, or may be a combination of elements.  For example, I have a character called the Canadian Shield, who is kind of a blend of Captain America, Superman and Captain Canuck.  There's elements of all three there, but also plenty of original material too.  It's also the case that my characters tend to evolve away from their inspiration, as I play them and refine their concept.

 

I get it, I understand the legal aspect of things, but I do try to avoid any issues.

 

Of course, none of this is to say I have no characters that are entirely original.  I do have many.  Way back in the day, my brother and I used to make comic books ourselves, and we had a sizable stable of characters I can draw from.

 

I should also say, when I start a thread like this or the others, I'm often not asking because I actually want to recreate the characters, I'm usually just thinking about how I WOULD, if was going to.  It's more for my amusement than for any actual purpose.

Edited 8 hours ago by Ultimo