Is Knockback to Knockdown a trap?

[SirArthurIV]

I just got my 6th slot for Sudden Acceleration and while I have noticed the 7.5% global recharge reduction I'm a bit underwhelmed by the effect of knockback to knockdown. is there some aspect to the effect that I am missing? Should I unslot and switch to force feedback, or is there something that I am not seeing?

[JJDrakken]

Do you like scattering shit all over and make it far harder & less effective for AoE to do it's job?

 

OR

 

Do you like knocking them on their butts, making them have to stand up, thus keeping them clustered and making AoE more effective & not useless?

 

 

Nothing else beyond that.

[Uncle Shags]

Knockback to knockdown is amazing.  Using 6 Sudden Acceleration?  That might be the trap...

 

What power are you putting that in? 

[Snarky]

56 minutes ago, SirArthurIV said:

I just got my 6th slot for Sudden Acceleration and while I have noticed the 7.5% global recharge reduction I'm a bit underwhelmed by the effect of knockback to knockdown. is there some aspect to the effect that I am missing? Should I unslot and switch to force feedback, or is there something that I am not seeing?

well, 5 slots of Sudden Acceleration are boosting Knockback.  Which you then Nerf.  So thats a waste.  If it is a damage power, and does any significant part of your AoE DPS, find something else.  If it is not a damage power, slap in an accuracy and a KB--> KD, then move the slots ANYWHERE on your build.  Because anything else is better.  

[SirArthurIV]

8 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

Knockback to knockdown is amazing.  Using 6 Sudden Acceleration?  That might be the trap...

 

What power are you putting that in? 

It was in Savage Melee: Vicious Slash. 

 

Yeah, I figured I messed up there. I'll unslot then convert them over to force feedback. 

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, SirArthurIV said:

It was in Savage Melee: Vicious Slash. 

 

Yeah, I figured I messed up there. I'll unslot then convert them over to force feedback. 

That power doesn’t even do knockback in the first place per a quick glance at CoD so that might be why you’re finding it underwhelming… I’m sure you’ll find the enhancement does something substantial if actually slotted in a power otherwise known for scattering.

 

As the only decent S/T attack in the set, I’m sure the optimal slotting involves 3-5 damage procs.

Edited Wednesday at 06:51 PM by arcane

[SirArthurIV]

Ah...yes...reading. My one weakness.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, SirArthurIV said:

Ah...yes...reading. My one weakness.

To be fair a lot of powers in the game seem to have misleading text in terms of distinguishing knockback from knockdown. If you haven’t tested the power personally, look at the data and see if the knock mag is 0.67 (knockdown) or higher (knockback).

[Jacke]

2 hours ago, SirArthurIV said:

I just got my 6th slot for Sudden Acceleration and while I have noticed the 7.5% global recharge reduction I'm a bit underwhelmed by the effect of knockback to knockdown. is there some aspect to the effect that I am missing? Should I unslot and switch to force feedback, or is there something that I am not seeing?

 

As others have pointed out, using a full set of Knockback IOs is rare.  (Except in cases like setting up for Bowling Hellions in Atlas Park.  😺) 

 

One case (maybe) of a full set of Sudden Acceleration being useful is making sure to KD a hard AV at +4 or worse.  The 5 IOs boost the KB to high levels, then the KB>KD IO turns that into a KB of under 1.0, which is a KD.  (There's also KU, some Power send the mobs up, and now in some newer and changed powers Vectored KB, which can be pointed Up, Down, or wherever the Dev in charge wants (but usually Up or Down).)  There's KB Protection, which reduces the KB that affects a target (maybe your Toon) by subtracting from the KB Mag, eventually removing it.  There's also KB Resistance, which multiplies to reduce KB Mag.  Tough targets have both, so maybe that full set of Sudden Acceleration is useful...?

 

I wouldn't do it, too situational.

 

There's also another fiddly bit that can affect some KB Powers KB effects, the dreaded ReduceIfKD tag.

 

Here's the Power from Blaster's Epic Pool Force Mastery, Repulsion Field:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=epic.force_mastery.repulsion_field&at=blaster

 

Note this effect:  Globe (PvE and PvP) 110% (will show why below) Yellow Tag (ReduceIfKD oh noahs!)  Mag +4.985 to Knockback (all affected targets) for 0.5s

 

Click on the Yellow Tag "ReduceIfKD" and get this page:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/tags.html?tag=reduceifkd&q=affects

That listed the 3 IOs that provide a KB>KD effect if slotted into a Power that has KB.

 

And there's a link to the Powers that have effects with that tag:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/tags.html?tag=reduceifkd&q=bears

 

A whole lot of Powers.

 

What happens to those Powers.  Those KB effects tagged with ReduceIfKD, if they have that one of the IO that do KB>KD, get the % chance dropped by 100%.

 

So that 110% chance of KB on Repulsion Field, gets reduced to a 10% chance to KD.

 

How often?  I'm not sure.  It could be the Activate Time of the Power (for Repulsion Field, 0.5s), which hurts but may still work.  But I think the vast majority of those checks for Auto Powers and Toggle Powers are only done every 10s (but this may only apply to PPM Procs, not sure).  Which completely nerfs the KD.  10% chance every 10s ?!?

 

So those very useful KB>KD IOs will change how often some Powers actually does do KB/KD.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:48 PM by Jacke

[Uncle Shags]

3 hours ago, SirArthurIV said:

Yeah, I figured I messed up there.

In your defense, the enhancement set system is very complex and takes some time to learn. 

[BlackSpectre]

Just use the knockback to knock down global proc enhancement in that set. Then slot the others as desired. 

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, SirArthurIV said:

Ah...yes...reading. My one weakness.

 

Now what we know SirArthurIV's weakness, we shall use it against him!

I want all of you to get personalized shirts with your names on them in big letters!

Reading your names when you attack will be his downfall!

 

[Forager]

Yes. It's a trap.

 

People who change knockback to knockdown are the same people who tell their kids not to go up the slide.

 

It's a game. Play inspired!

[Scarlet Shocker]

 

[Uncle Shags]

It kind of stinks, though. 

 

Last night I was on a big team and we were kicking butt.  We had a huge group of baddies we were wailing on when all of a sudden.....KABOOM!!!  Flash of light and sound.  Bodies flying everywhere.  It really felt epic.  Wow.  Energy blaster nova.  Awesome.  But then, as soon as the half dead baddies stood up scattered to kingdom come I heard the Waaaaawaaaaa noise.  Maybe just in my head.

 

It sucks that such a visceral, powerful moment is also be completely counterproductive to the mission of fast and efficient arrests.  I don't think it's nearly as epic if the bodies just...fall down.

 

Maybe it just sucks and that's it.  Probably.  Or maaaybe they make a KB->KB again enhancement!  Knock back!  Then a second later knock back again to where they started from!  Everyone wins!

[tidge]

I have a full set of Sudden Acceleration slotted into a (Robotics) MM's primary attacks. That character happens to bring a lot of KD anyway, and I wanted to also leverage the +MaxEnd +MaxHealth and +Global Recharge.

 

I normally only specifically focus on KB->KD when:

• I can turn a damaging power into a (soft) control
• The power would otherwise scatter enemies 360° (Sudden Acceleration's piece is good here, as it is not unique in case the Overwhelming Force piece is somewhere else)

In my experience most single-target and cone attacks become "soft control" with practice. KB from teammates IMO is not as problematic as enemy critter AI.