What do I need to know about Regen?

[FFTMime]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

 

pst, that's not love.

 

I do get it. Not every set or even every archetype is for everyone and that's okay.

I played regen in it's release state. Then sat through a series of nerf. Some justified. The community admitted it. Then admitted it was where it probably should be. Then it got nerfed again. In an incident where Statesman forged evidence to justify it to the community. And deleted his post and went silent after it was called out. In which everyone knew regen was now below par. I survived then by using air superiority in conjunction with MA's knockdown and knockback. Before you could spend infinite resources to prop up anything with proc based enhancements and incarnate powers and such. 

I like how the set plays. I really enjoy it. I don't know why people are averse to a set that doesn't rely on toggles. The fact it underperforms really shouldn't be controversial though. 

[Troo]

10 minutes ago, FFTMime said:

I like how the set plays. I really enjoy it. I don't know why people are averse to a set that doesn't rely on toggles. The fact it underperforms really shouldn't be controversial though. 

 

"pst, that's not love." referred to the recognition of an unhealthy relationship a person should run from.

 

All but one set under performs. Unless there is a tie for best set... that's how rankings work. (yes I am just giving you a little bit of fun)

 

[Skyhawke]

What's a decent recharge time for MoG? I don't have it in my current build, but I can see that everyone else is highly recommending it. Is it worth it to build around or just a nice "oh crap" button?

[biostem]

On 4/13/2025 at 2:43 PM, FFTMime said:

I like how the set plays. I really enjoy it. I don't know why people are averse to a set that doesn't rely on toggles. The fact it underperforms really shouldn't be controversial though. 

People are not "averse to a set that doesn't rely on toggles" - they are averse to the lack of layered protection that most other sets provide, and with proper end management, who cares about toggles?  They are just a method of having a power apply a continual effect without it being an auto power.  It's not really that complicated;  More forms of protection or more robust forms of a single method of mitigation, are superior to just healing...

[FFTMime]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

People are not "averse to a set that doesn't rely on toggles" - they are averse to the lack of layered protection that most other sets provide, and with proper end management, who cares about toggles?  They are just a method of having a power apply a continual effect without it being an auto power.  It's not really that complicated;  More forms of protection or more robust forms of a single method of mitigation, are superior to just healing...

Raw super reflexes is better than just regen. 

but this is a classic discussion with no real solution. The issue on live was known. If you give regen adequate healing for content, it's too much. If you don't give them enough, it's feeble. Healing is a pretty dangerous thing to give players a lot of. What do you do then? The sensible solutions all involve sucking regen's soul out and replacing it with a new power set under the same name. 

Edit: Which I personally would not mind. But it's understandable this hasn't been done in all this time either. 

Edited 13 hours ago by FFTMime

[Maelwys]

11 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

What's a decent recharge time for MoG? I don't have it in my current build, but I can see that everyone else is highly recommending it. Is it worth it to build around or just a nice "oh crap" button?

 

Its base values are fine but yes it likes Recharge. So ideally you want a LotG +7.5% plus two Lv50+5 Recharge IOs in it. Realistically it'll probably end up sitting at 60-90s depending on your Global Recharge (since you'll be after Perma Dull Pain and a decent uptime on IH anyway)

 

 

9 hours ago, FFTMime said:

Raw super reflexes is better than just regen. 

 

Only in cases where incoming damage is beyond a certain threshold.

 

Admittedly that threshold is considered rather low these days (unless you have additional defense buff from your primary and/or IOs and/or Shadow Meld) but back in the day Arcanaville performed very extensive comparisons between the various Scrapper Secondary powersets and post-nerf Regen's Immortality Line was second only to Dark Armor. SR was (and still is) better at mitigating short spikes of severe damage but much worse vs "chip damage", being two-shot, and attacks that have high ToHit or are autohit.

Since then we've gotten IOs (which benefit everyone, but noteworthy Global Recharge and Defense/Resistance is far easier to gain via globals and Set bonuses than noteworthy Regeneration) and Incarnates (which benefit everyone and have made it rather hard for even a Blaster to die except versus really overwhelming odds) and pool/patron powers like Rune of Protection and Shadowmeld.

 

Honestly these days Bio Armor is the only set I'd rank head and shoulders above Regeneration in every category. Whilst SR is currently considered to be a very strong set, IMO it's the inherent Defense Debuff Resistance that really makes it shine; and unless you're pairing it with Dark Melee or Radiation Melee or popping green insps like candy it can still get tricky to balance out sustained bouts of incoming damage (as it often requires Ageless for Endurance Management, so Rebirth is out... which leaves Radial Lores, Melee Hybrid, Heal Proc IOs and Unrelenting/Unleash Potential). On Brutes their higher Resistance Cap definitely helps at very low Health (assuming the SR is leveraging their Scaling Damage Resistance) but the same is true for Regen whilst MoG is up and/or they're using pool power or Incarnate godmode buttons etc.

 

Personally my ideal buff to Regen would involve adding +Absorb to Dull Pain, Reconstruction and IH (50% of the healing rate would be about right); as it suffers from much the same problems vs severe spike damage as Empathy. Then add a bit of Recharge Rate Debuff Resistance and Regeneration Debuff Resistance to Fast Healing, Integration and Resilience. Done. And if it's still below par, tweaking Resilience to provide scaling damage resistance as its HP drops would work just fine without violating the cottage rule.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Maelwys