CoT defense debuffs?

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

As a player if I get confused I always pop buildup/aim, 10 or so red inspirations and kill my teammates because it's role playing.

 

“spontaneous PvP mode activated”

[Wavicle]

48 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

Ok, so I snuck away and I was able to hit it without distraction.  Mystery solved!

 

Earthquake is it!  It seems to be autohit, ignores defense debuff resistance, and lowers defense by 15%ish rather than the 10% it's listed as in CoD. That 5% difference threw me off earlier when it was suggested as the culprit.

 

I think another part of the challenge was they don't cast it very frequently. It might be something they use only on first contact.  Standing around, waiting for them to cast again didn't seem to work.

 

Aha!  Case closed! Solution: Get the heck out of the Earthquake zone if your survival depends on defense!

 

Booya. I feel like Columbo.

 

Yep, that makes sense. Powers like that, and Quicksand, are part of why SR gets decent Slow resists, so you can run out of a -Def field like that fairly easily.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

49 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

Ok, so I snuck away and I was able to hit it without distraction.  Mystery solved!

 

Earthquake is it!  It seems to be autohit, ignores defense debuff resistance, and lowers defense by 15%ish rather than the 10% it's listed as in CoD. That 5% difference threw me off earlier when it was suggested as the culprit.

 

I think another part of the challenge was they don't cast it very frequently. It might be something they use only on first contact.  Standing around, waiting for them to cast again didn't seem to work.

 

Aha!  Case closed! Solution: Get the heck out of the Earthquake zone if your survival depends on defense!

 

Booya. I feel like Columbo.

That checks out. The Defense debuff is tagged as "Ignores Resistance" in CoD so it would ignore your DDR. As for the 15% versus 10% you mentioned that you were running at +4 so that would scale up the debuff by 33% or 44% depending on whether you have an Alpha slot or not.

[Snarky]

On 5/8/2025 at 5:50 PM, Snarky said:

you already know.  Defense Debuffs exist.  CoT uses that stuff.  how much defense debuff res you got?  100??? mostly their stone mages but a lot of their cheesy minions throw  debuff def...

Earth Casters and Ruin Mages (both "stone")  called it!

[Jacke]

On 5/9/2025 at 9:40 PM, Adeon Hawkwood said:

That checks out. The Defense debuff is tagged as "Ignores Resistance" in CoD so it would ignore your DDR. As for the 15% versus 10% you mentioned that you were running at +4 so that would scale up the debuff by 33% or 44% depending on whether you have an Alpha slot or not.

 

Be aware that even Effects labelled as "Ignores Resistance" are still affected by the Purple Patch.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

"When contemporary forum-goers talk about the "purple patch", they may be referring to the way player character effectiveness scales against different-level enemies. To use the table below, multiply the effects of your powers by the value in the Above column if you are Level levels above your target, or by the value in the Below column if you are Level levels below your target.

"These modifers apply to almost everything in combat: Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage are all affected."

 

Mobs are usually a higher Level than the Toons.  The common max difference is +3L from Toons to Mobs (Mobs at +4L versus the Toon's Alpha +1--but most Pets don't get the Caster's Global buffs, including Level shifts, so it's +4L from ally Pets to Mobs).  Which means +3L from Mobs to Toons, +4L from Mobs to Pets.

 

That gives these multiplicative factors:

• +4 (Mobs to Pets)     x1.44
• +3 (Mobs to Toons)  x1.33
• -3  (Toons to Mobs)  x0.65
• -4  (Pets to Mobs)     x0.48

 

There's other factors for the Base Chance to Hit on the lower table on the Purple Patch page.  That's just for Toons to Mobs.

• -3  (Toons to Mobs)  48%
• -4  (Pets to Mobs)     39%

 

For Mobs against Toons and Pets, that really complex.  The details are in here, spread all out.  I'm also more uncertain here about these things.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

For Mobs:

"HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods – DefMods ) )"

"AccMods  =  the power's inherent Accuracy  ×  the Accuracy of the enemy's Rank  ×  Accuracy factor due to level difference"

 

The Clamps hold a value to between 95% and 5%, ie. "min(max(value, 5%), 95%)" or in ratios "min(max(value, 0.05), 0.95)".  BassHitChance for Mobs is 50%.

 

 Accuracy factor due to level difference:

• +4 (Mobs to Pets)     x1.4
• +3 (Mobs to Toons)  x1.3

 

Accuracy of the enemy's Rank::

Minion, player Pet	1.00
Lieutenant	1.15
Boss, Elite Boss, Sniper	1.30
Monster, Giant Monster, AV	1.50

 

Power's inherent Accuracy is a number, usually 1.0, but sometimes lower, sometimes higher, same as Toon's Powers.

 

My brain hurts now, so putting this all together I leave as an exercise.  😺

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:47 AM by Jacke

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

Be aware that even Effects labelled as "Ignores Resistance" are still affected by the Purple Patch.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

"When contemporary forum-goers talk about the "purple patch", they may be referring to the way player character effectiveness scales against different-level enemies. To use the table below, multiply the effects of your powers by the value in the Above column if you are Level levels above your target, or by the value in the Below column if you are Level levels below your target.

"These modifers apply to almost everything in combat: Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage are all affected."

 

Mobs are usually a higher Level than the Toons.  The common max difference is +3L from Toons to Mobs (Mobs at +4L versus the Toon's Alpha +1--but most Pets don't get the Caster's Global buffs, including Level shifts, so it's +4L from ally Pets to Mobs).  Which means -3L from Mobs to Toons, +4L from Mobs to Pets.

 

That gives these multiplicative factors:

• +4 (Mobs to Pets)     x1.44
• +3 (Mobs to Toons)  x1.33
• -3  (Toons to Mobs)  x0.65
• -4  (Pets to Mobs)     x0.48

 

There's other factors for the Base Chance to Hit on the lower table on the Purple Patch page.  That's just for Toons to Mobs.

• -3  (Toons to Mobs)  48%
• -4  (Pets to Mobs)     39%

 

For Mobs against Toons and Pets, that really complex.  The details are in here, spread all out.  I'm also more uncertain here about these things.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

For Mobs:

"HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods – DefMods ) )"

"AccMods  =  the power's inherent Accuracy  ×  the Accuracy of the enemy's Rank  ×  Accuracy factor due to level difference"

 

The Clamps hold a value to between 95% and 5%, ie. "min(max(value), 5%), 95%)" or in ratios "min(max(value), 0.05), 0.95)".  BassHitChance for Mobs is 50%.

 

 Accuracy factor due to level difference:

• +4 (Mobs to Pets)     x1.4
• +3 (Mobs to Toons)  x1.3

 

Accuracy of the enemy's Rank::

Minion, player Pet	1.00
Lieutenant	1.15
Boss, Elite Boss, Sniper	1.30
Monster, Giant Monster, AV	1.50

 

Power's inherent Accuracy is a number, usually 1.0, but sometimes lower, sometimes higher, same as Toon's Powers.

 

My brain hurts now, so putting this all together I leave as an exercise.  😺

 

 

i always assumed purple patch was the purple triangles

[Psyonico]

30 minutes ago, Snarky said:

i always assumed purple patch was the purple triangles

Nope, that’s Purple Triangles of Doom

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Triangles

[Maelwys]

27 minutes ago, Snarky said:

i always assumed purple patch was the purple triangles

NYEH-HEH-HEH-HEH-HAH-HAH-HAH!

[Uncle Shags]

It's funny how team composition can either make all of that glorious math lead to a complete wipe, or in the case of the team I was on earlier, completely trivialize it.  

 

After thinking about this thread I was a bit cautious at first because it was only a team of 5 vs 54x8 CoT.  I started to get the flashback shakes.  When the Ruin Mages showed up I clenched my cheeks and waited for the dooom...but it never came.  Even pulling multiple groups, everything in sight, and dealing with two Ruins at once was easy-peazy.  I stood in the Earthquake and made the Ruin punch himself. Of course, there were 2 or 3 support and a blaster that did most of the work.  5-man steamroll.  Quite nice.

 

The more I play this game, the more I notice and appreciate the complexity...

[shortguy on indom]

• SOMETIMES THE COMPLEXITIES ARE JUST WIVE'S TALES.
• 
• 

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, shortguy on indom said:

• SOMETIMES THE COMPLEXITIES ARE JUST WIVE'S TALES.

what am I looking at sorry?

[shortguy on indom]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

what am I looking at sorry?

• 45% IS ABSOLUTELY NADA.

[Uncle Shags]

49 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

SOMETIMES THE COMPLEXITIES ARE JUST WIVE'S TALES

Come on man....

 

Can you put in a little effort to be accessible?  Ever heard of an abstract?

[TalynDerre]

So, I'm late to the party here, but I'm pretty sure it's Earthquake being dropped by the Masters of Ruin.  Earthquake is auto-hit, and reduces your DEF, which means it absolutely ruins the day of people with Super Reflexes and Energy Aura.

[shortguy on indom]

• JUXTAPOSITION MORE LIKE.

[Snarky]

38 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

• JUXTAPOSITION MORE LIKE.

Abstract juxtaposition