Focused Feedback: Powerset - Plant Control

[Kriiden]

 

22 hours ago, Vinceq98 said:

One more change and need to keep reiterating the echo that CARRION CREEPERS needs a dmg buff. Buff their base damage up please and plant will feel balanced after these changes. I like the new spirit tree and love the new vines power as well. Seeds is now an afterthought for me and something I use when it's just the bosses left because of adaptive recharge I can easily confuse them with multiple applications as opposed to using it as an opener and NOT even hitting the damn boss because of the low target cap.

 

So yeah buff carrion creepers and ship it. I would be 100 percent behind these changes and would be happy that no one can complain anymore that plant was OP.

I prefer proc* bombs, but I'd also be ok with a moderate damage buff. But to nerf it under the current circumstances just to make it "function" better compared to other sets...*shrugs*.

Edited June 2 by Kriiden

[ivanhedgehog]

On 5/31/2025 at 11:24 PM, TygerDarkstorm said:

After testing an Elec/Sonic controller at level 20, Plant at this level feels reeeeeeaaaallly sluggish. I thought it might be the critter changes, but my Elec controller, while defeating slower, doesn't feel nearly as drastic as the Plant/Marine I was testing.

 

Please consider giving plant some sort of damage boost or something. Electric Control feels great to play on Beta, while Plant decidedly does not. Keep in mind that leveling is still the majority of this game, that many, if not most, players are like myself and running SO and common IO builds. Plant at level 20 gameplay in current beta feels like playing Electric before the beta buffs.

I dont get the idea of doubling critter recovery rate. all it brings is tedium.I guess the moar harder folks like that so we are stuck with it. Its doesnt make the game harder, just tedious.

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I dont get the idea of doubling critter recovery rate. all it brings is tedium.I guess the moar harder folks like that so we are stuck with it. Its doesnt make the game harder, just tedious.

 

I mean I guess I'd be okay with it if they want to give all controllers some minor -regen in one or more of their controls to counteract it (since not all secondaries have -regen or have it up often enough).   Roots for example would probably be good spot for it in plant, something similar in other sets.

 

Hard to say what to even suggest though as the devs have still given zero indication as the reason behind the change.  I'm assuming the point behind the change wasn't to make an AT that is already on the slower side for defeating mobs even slower, but we can't know unless they say something. 

 

They also still have not created a focused feeback thread on the issue despite many requests, so it appears they don't care for any feedback from us on it.  It has been very strange/disappointing the complete lack of communication on this change.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

 

I mean I guess I'd be okay with it if they want to give all controllers some minor -regen in one or more of their controls to counteract it (since not all secondaries have -regen or have it up often enough).   Roots for example would probably be good spot for it in plant, something similar in other sets.

 

Hard to say what to even suggest though as the devs have still given zero indication as the reason behind the change.  I'm assuming the point behind the change wasn't to make an AT that is already on the slower side for defeating mobs even slower, but we can't know unless they say something. 

 

They also still have not created a focused feeback thread on the issue despite many requests, so it appears they don't care for any feedback from us on it.  It has been very strange/disappointing the complete lack of communication on this change.

I think there is no feedback thread because they have no actual good reason for doing it. what is the point? The high damage lvl 50s fully pimped out wont notice. People leveling defenders and the like will be even more handicapped. It is a change just to suit the dev making it for his private playground.

[Uun]

16 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I dont get the idea of doubling critter recovery rate. all it brings is tedium.I guess the moar harder folks like that so we are stuck with it. Its doesnt make the game harder, just tedious.

I assume you're referring to regeneration rate (health) not recovery rate (endurance). In any case, critter regeneration rate hasn't been doubled or even close to it. The changes to critter regeneration are barely noticeable in side by side tests.

 

Clarification - the regen rate is now 4 minutes for critters (it was 7m40s for lieutenants/bosses and 14 minutes for minions), which is the same as a player without Health. 

 

Edited June 3 by Uun
Clarification

[Onlyasandwich]

My observations so far:

• Seeds is still usable and decent, though as others have noted the 10 target limit keeps it from being a very safe opener. I have found Spirit Tree or Spores to be an okay substitute here when solo, and the Deep sleep improvement on spores makes this more workable overall. I do feel more obligated to take both of these powers for functional opening play, which means tighter power choices overall. This isn't necessarily a terrible thing, as it's nice to actually have a reason to use them. I would personally prefer a duration nerf, while keeping the old target cap.
• Carrion Creepers are much less interesting, and seem to spawn many fewer pseudo-pets. Perhaps the original behavior wasn't intended, and this is what they meant when they said they were addressing cascading procs. However, even without procs the Creepers now no longer scale effectively with crowd size, and are substantially less useful. Their damage contribution is pretty forgettable as well. Perhaps I am just spoiled by the comparison to my previously proc bombed creepers, which were indeed pretty absurd in the right saturated environment. I would prefer an approach that keeps their scaling summon behavior more in line with live, while diminishing the impact of procs within the pseudo-pet powers in some other way.
• I like the adaptive recharge in Vines. I already used the long recharge aoe controls as is, and this only helps.

 

Edited June 3 by Onlyasandwich

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I assume you're referring to regeneration rate (health) not recovery rate (endurance). In any case, critter regeneration rate hasn't been doubled or even close to it. The changes to critter regeneration are barely noticeable in side by side tests.

 

Uh, yes they have and are. 

 

Per the wiki the current regen rates are:

Minion 5% every 42 seconds

Lieutenant 5% every 23 seconds 

Boss 5% every 23 seconds

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Health_Regeneration

 

The patch notes say the new regen rates are:

All critters now regenerate health 5% of their health every 12 seconds (does not include GMs or AVs)

 

I guess you could say going from 23 seconds to 12 seconds for bosses and Lt's isn't "technically" quite double, but yes it is very "close to it", by literally 1 second, or around a +92% increase in rate.  For minions it is 3.5x the rate, although of course with minions much lower health it isn't as noticeable.

 

It is something that I definitely did notice though, at least on boss level mobs when I did my "side my side" tests.  Especially when trying to use slow dot powers like entangle.

 

Also, that there is no focused feedback thread.  That makes it tough to even discuss or do "side by side" tests, or even discuss things like how much of an increase it really is, as there is no place to really discuss it or post any tests of it.   

 

[Uun]

18 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Also, that there is no focused feedback thread.  That makes it tough to even discuss or do "side by side" tests, or even discuss things like how much of an increase it really is, as there is no place to really discuss it or post any tests of it.   

I posted a number of side by side tests in the focused feedback thread for the tank changes, primarily to isolate the impact of the reduction to overcap damage. When notoriety was reduced from x8 to x4, there was no material difference in clear time between live and beta.

[aethereal]

22 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Also, that there is no focused feedback thread.  That makes it tough to even discuss or do "side by side" tests, or even discuss things like how much of an increase it really is, as there is no place to really discuss it or post any tests of it.   

 

Could it be intended as an AFK Farming nerf?  Just trying to think about what situations people might do fairly low chip damage to a large number of mobs in a way that some might deem problematic.

[Riverdusk]

8 minutes ago, Uun said:

I posted a number of side by side tests in the focused feedback thread for the tank changes, primarily to isolate the impact of the reduction to overcap damage. When notoriety was reduced from x8 to x4, there was no material difference in clear time between live and beta.

 

I posted my own test, I think in the main patch thread, using entangle against a -3 boss and did notice a difference.  Yes, I wouldn't expect a higher damage AT like tank to see much of a difference.  A low damage AT like controller, especially with slow dots, does.

 

Of course without a focused feedback thread, the 'tests' are all over the place so no definitive place to discuss.

[Riverdusk]

9 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Could it be intended as an AFK Farming nerf?  Just trying to think about what situations people might do fairly low chip damage to a large number of mobs in a way that some might deem problematic.

 

Yes, also, the point I made in other posts.  We have no idea the reasoning behind the change, which is another issue.

[tidge]

On 5/30/2025 at 6:09 PM, Burnt Umber said:

I don't really like that the proc chance in seeds (and in Synaptic, but that's for another thread) has been obliterated.  I'd rather take the 10 target cap and 90 second recharge.  Part of the problem, for me, is that Coercive is so much better than any of the other options for slotting a confuse power that it hurts a fair bit when slotting it still feels like picking the lesser of two evils rather than a positive choice.

 

The best reason IMO for slotting Coercive Confusion in an AoE control was, IMO that with a reliable %proc chance, it became practically unobservable to 'miss' hitting every critter in the spawn because of 5% RNG... the followup rolls of the proc always (per my observation) hit the enemies. I think I did see times when teh magnitude of a Confuse wasn't enough for Bosses, etc. but otherwise every critter in a spawn would get the Confuse effect, even if some of them only had the short duration version.

 

Having written that, %damage in a Confuse AoE wasn't a bad thing, as any %damage got you on the list for potential reward drops, even if the critters defeat each other.

[mistagoat]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

Could it be intended as an AFK Farming nerf?  Just trying to think about what situations people might do fairly low chip damage to a large number of mobs in a way that some might deem problematic.

I'll occasionally take my Ice/Rad troller out to fight solo at 0x8. She is incredibly safe to play but probably has the worst offense of all my toons. She uses her safety to, very, very slowly, chip away at spawns. This change will probably hurt her a great deal. I'm not saying that means the sky is falling, she's a gimmick build that I enjoy because it's fun to neuter enemy offence but it's a case like the one you describe.

[Lazarillo]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

Could it be intended as an AFK Farming nerf?  Just trying to think about what situations people might do fairly low chip damage to a large number of mobs in a way that some might deem problematic.

Likely.  "Attempt to nerf farming indirectly in a way that doesn't really do anything about farming but nerfs normal/'intended-use' gameplay more" is kinda the HC mantra.  We'll see anything and everything except just turning MARTy back on, for whatever reason.

[Wavicle]

Nope.

 

 

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Nope.

 

 

 

Thanks.  Might have otherwise missed that new post.  Finally a spot I could put my feedback. Yay.

Edited June 3 by Riverdusk

[Arcanum]

Hi everyone!

This thread has been locked, as there have been numerous changes to the set since the initial build.

Please go to the new Focused Feedback Thread for this topic to provide input on the updates.