Focused Feedback: Kallisti Wharf Zone Comes To Life!

[Andreah]

51 minutes ago, Ruin Mage said:

So, genuine question, but do most people ignore the game's content then? City of Heroes is a product of its time. A number of arcs and enemy groups...are going to draw from political and social issues. The game's lore, such as the Might for Right Act or the 5th Column or Malta or The Council or Nemesis, makes this game quite hard to "escape" from social and political issues. It's the wrong game choice to do escapism in, unfortunate to say.

How about, those are mainly much older issues that have less biting relevance today.

 

I won't lose sleep over the PPD Corruption issue, but I think it's a mistake. There's already some unpleasant stinky stuff in the sandwich, why add more? It's easily avoided.

 

I am concerned that there's not a very solid lore foundation for why Kallisti is the way it is as a co-op zone. So far, it looks very hand wavy "it's co-op because it's a co-op zone."

[PBiz]

I feel like the PPD corruption issue is odd considering the Blackwing group is very clearly a hell of a lot more corrupt as an independent paramilitary group brought in to do what the PPD was failing to do. Shouldn't the focus be more on there's a lot of shady reasons why the PPD was ousted in favor of Blackwing, even though they seem to get glowing reviews by the residents? I feel like that adds a little more intrigue into it that makes more sense. I find it odd that the residents would embrace this Blackwing group rather readily, or that we're supposed to believe that crime is down when a whole half of the city is dedicated to villain-side shenanigans, especially when the PPD as a whole has a great reputation otherwise Paragon City, and that it seems reasonable that the PPD would have acted a lot sooner to clean up their act in Kallisti Wharf if there were issues. If PPD has been utterly corrupt to the point they needed thrown out of a city, why should there be any faith in the rest of the organization?

 

Additionally, I think the confusing part to me is "They don't understand the community they were trying to protect." I'm not sure exactly what that means. By all accounts, Kallisti Wharf has really been billed as a big, booming tech city with a university and everything, and some other corrupt bits across the pond with industrial stuff going on. It's not like King's Row which is a lot more poor population or anything. It's supposed to be a rather advanced and gorgeous city.

 

I'm not attempting to get political with any of this, and I can understand the political implications of all of this, but I feel like groups like PPD or Longbow should really be cut a little more slack considering they routinely go up against terrible, invincible monsters that can tear them in half or blow up a city block, and villains are constantly putting civilians in so much more danger with actual masked criminals and monsters just hanging out on street corners, always attempting to commit high level crimes with superpowers. I feel like attempts to make them closer to a real life police organization is difficult since for the most part, the crimes are far and above anything in real life on average, and they are constantly outgunned and punching up to try and stop crime and murder.

 

I feel like having the PPD struggling to keep up with all of the villainy and crime is a lot more sensible approach to go, and that's why they had to bring in a whole independent paramilitary group to clean it up, rather than PPD was just too corrupt to exist in the city. It just feels like a disservice to the group.

Edited Thursday at 02:30 AM by PBiz

[Super Atom]

34 minutes ago, Andreah said:

I am concerned that there's not a very solid lore foundation for why Kallisti is the way it is as a co-op zone. So far, it looks very hand wavy "it's co-op because it's a co-op zone."

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Villains are in every single zone. Just not always as players for outside reasons. Do we really need to clarify why a player villain in specific would do crime or things for money in a city? 🤔

[Andreah]

11 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Villains are in every single zone. Just not always as players for outside reasons. Do we really need to clarify why a player villain in specific would do crime or things for money in a city? 🤔

Kallisti is a co-op zone. You cannot fight the player villains you meet there. Why? because it's a co-op zone. I think we need a lot more than that to explain why. The reasons being 'outside' is the problem. 

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, Andreah said:

Kallisti is a co-op zone. You cannot fight the player villains you meet there. Why? because it's a co-op zone. I think we need a lot more than that to explain why. The reasons being 'outside' is the problem. 

 

so you want a lore reason as to why we aren't just on sight arresting villains like we have with vanguard for RWZ, we're on the same page now thank you for clarifying 🙂 

 

If the storyarcs don't do that I'd probably agree with that detail being important for immersion reasons.

 

edit: even if its as simple as a quip  from the first contact saying they got you a cover for being in paragon.

Edited Thursday at 03:00 AM by Super Atom

[jkwak]

15 hours ago, Velvet Violet said:

 

It was only the KW precinct that had become corrupt. The rest of the PPD remains the same as it always was.

its already a lot of text but maybe make that clearer?

there are some other complaints i have about the Blackwing lore but this isnt the Blackwing thread

[KaizenSoze]

More on topic. Has anyone found the "Horde"?

[CarthianRaver]

12 hours ago, Ruin Mage said:

There is idle dialogue (I.e the type that pops up before engaging groups or passing by NPCs) that lays the hints that BWI is up to something as well. Which means there's likely more to what's going on. Which means there's things to be discovered as KW content rolls out.

 

So, genuine question, but do most people ignore the game's content then? City of Heroes is a product of its time. A number of arcs and enemy groups...are going to draw from political and social issues. The game's lore, such as the Might for Right Act or the 5th Column or Malta or The Council or Nemesis, makes this game quite hard to "escape" from social and political issues. It's the wrong game choice to do escapism in, unfortunate to say.

 

I get comics have addressed social/political issues (at least Marvel does), but they use metaphor, allegory and such. What they are doing here is not that, it is straight up taking a real world political issue and changing a name and slapping it into lore regardless of ramifications to lore or if it fits. It isn't allegory or metaphor. It's shoving it in people's faces. It's why so many modern shows that do this fail, while older shows did it in a way peole didn't instantly recoil at the preachiness. This is is being preachy, which does not go over well with most people regardless of their political affiliation. 

Compare the newer vs original shows "Charmed". Both addressed feminist and other social issues, but the poor writing of the new one made the series fall short and end after far fewer seasons. Or even original series of Doctor Who vs the last couple of The Doctor's regenerations, where the policitcal issues are being shoved blatantly at people and so they are getting kick back. The old show did it via parralels and allegory. Using comic books, if Marvel had made all the X-Men black and showed the segregaton of white vs colored it wouldnt have gone over so well. You can say it's because of the times they had too, but when things do it now it doesn't work either. So it's less about the mindset of the time and more of the methods used for the message.

Not only that this isnt even being done in a good way, it's just retconning history and expecting everyone to just accept it as it's always been this way or that the reasons are there or that they are just vague snippets without any real build up, and we just need to believe it.

As for BWI I think most people have already figured they are up to something, most likely they will end up being Malta. But the way they're being shoehorned in doesn't help them get a positive view. Hence my suggesting a build up to why/when they get there instead of "They've been here 5+ years after replacing the PPD." IF the zone was just now released then it would have worked better, but it isnt just being released. A build up with a preexisting zone also lets the story be more naturally growing. Think of it like with Galaxy City, would it have made sense for them to say "Oh galaxy was destroyed 5 years ago!."? No it wouldnt have made sense, and the impact of a zone being destroyed would have been muted by such action. The same type of story situation is here now with KW. Building up to it creates far more suspense, mystery and intrigue. 

Edited Thursday at 01:06 PM by CarthianRaver

[Troo]

Some big groups

[KaizenSoze]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

Some big groups

You found the horde! It’s quite a battle to solo them.

[Troo]

1 minute ago, KaizenSoze said:

You found the horde! It’s quite a battle to solo them.

 

Got to test the new Regeneration Revive power thats for sure.

 

[LastHumanSoldier]

The "Law Enforcement are perfect angels" stuff really shows how many players didn't engage with villianside whatsoever.

 

Bad cops is also a well tread superhero trope.  Numerous punisher stories come to mind.

 

Leave it I dont see an issue. 

[Troo]

Zone Music

• No welcome to the zone music when zoning in at base portal or leaving the train station.
• Music doesn't change quickly when crossing neighborhood lines. (audio queue for entering red neighborhoods)
• Music fades when leaving a neighborhood. I like that.
  • But doesn't seem to fade from the neighborhood around Black Wing Neighborhood (haven't test all) (don't like this)

Will come back with more music comments

[Troo]

Neighborhood pins on map and names missing? I only see a couple.

 

Neighborhoods

One Statesman Plaza (Music)

Christie Square (Level 40-44) (Music)

Paragon University Medical Campus (Level ) (Music)

Kallisti Medical Center(Level 40-44) (Music)

New Flagtown (Level 45-48) (Music)

Flagtown Memorial Park (Level 45-48) (Music)

Paragon Trade Center (Level 49-54) (Music)

Blackwing Headquarters (Level 49-54) (Music)

Kallisti Marina (Level 40-44) (Music)

Maxwell Stadium (Level 40-44) (Music)

Theatre Row (Level 40-44) (Music)

Collier Industrial Park (Level 45-48) (Music)

Adamstown (Level 45-50) (Music)

Adamstown Infirmary (Music)

Old Slough (Level 49-54) (Music)

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

Got to test the new Regeneration Revive power thats for sure.

 

Only way I have been able to do it is kite them around the buildings.

[ViridianDev]

33 minutes ago, Troo said:

Zone Music

• No welcome to the zone music when zoning in at base portal or leaving the train station.
• Music doesn't change quickly when crossing neighborhood lines. (audio queue for entering red neighborhoods)
• Music fades when leaving a neighborhood. I like that.
  • But doesn't seem to fade from the neighborhood around Black Wing Neighborhood (haven't test all) (don't like this)

Will come back with more music comments

 

To clarify, this isn't quite how the music code is setup. Music tracks fade based on the duration of the track, not when leaving a neighborhood. A new track will play if no track is currently playing, and a player crosses any neighborhood boundary.

 

The base portal and train station should both be within neighborhood boundaries and have tracks set for them; but I know there's been buggy weirdness where a track won't play if you just did a mission sometimes, I'll pass that onto the code devs and see what we can do.

[GM Crumpet]

We have to keep saying it. No politics please.

[High_Beam]

Look.  I am going to say this to get it off my chest just this once then move on.

 

Every second I spend in Kallisti Wharf, testing the enemies, the missions and everything else, the more I hate whats been done.

 

The mobs are ludicrous in size for size sake only and the spawns are everywhere, just polluting the joint.   The villain group revamps just don't fit; the only cats that we should be seeing there are UPA, BWI, Crey, Malta.  The absence of Longbow, like em or not is contrary to all previously established story.  The BWI are a good enemy but they are new; not a revamp which is why they work.  The name Altruitsts is terrible; might as well called them Stevia since they sound like n artificial sweetener or some new met for some disease.  The whole explanation for why this OCP wanna be police (BWI) force rolled in absolutely pisses me off.  The Warriors look even more clownish than they do on live after the last revamp; effing torn tuxedos, really.  The Skulls so don't belong there, effing Goldbrickers do not belong there.  They just dumped a bunch of power proliferated groups and said, sure, that's content.  Not enough NPC civilians really make it so noticeable.  I mean come on, eleven Warriors doing jumping jacks in the wide open.  I did notice the lack of massive mob spawns around the more popular Halloween door farm areas 🙂

 

If the intent was to make it some sort of "here is where New Praetoria starts" deal then do that, which means don't dirty the place up.  Wanna play the corporate machinations angle cool, then get the clown shoes out of the picture and stick with a clean veneer where the dirt is hidden, the effing Crey would not tolerate any of the bulk of the Mooks you have shoehorned in the zone.

 

To use a common internet term, its been enshittified. @BasiliskXVIIICorrected my understanding of that.

 

To use a Navy Chief's term, its been torn up by the chop chain.

 

Okay I've said my peace.  I love the devs and love the hard work they put in and will still play on Homecoming happily because it still stirs a passion in me.  I know they have passion too and these changes are part of that and since I do not have the talent to do any better, I can only express my feelings based on my play and then say thank you when all is said and done.

Edited 22 hours ago by High_Beam

[Uncle Shags]

23 hours ago, Troo said:

Some big groups

These guys are friggin rough!

 

People on test were saying they are in live, but I've never run into them.

 

I tackled them solo a few times and think I figured out some of their secrets.  They get aoe+tohit from Psychic Battery and maybe fortitude, and end drain from Psychic Flow.

 

Ageless solved the end problem, or, I think I may have been able to move out of the aoe for psychic flow. For the +tohit I basically had to cheat and pop purples... It took 100% defense to overcome their tohit buffs.

 

[StarkWhite]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

People on test were saying they are in live, but I've never run into them.

 

They're primarily in specific Praetorian story arcs.

[BasiliskXVIII]

14 hours ago, High_Beam said:

To use a common internet term, its been enshittified.

That's not what enshittified means.

Enshittification is a specific process which happens when a service starts with good, user-focused design to entice users to adopt the service, then focuses their attention on business customers at the expense of regular users, and then finally gradually degrades their user experience for everyone by adding features intended to provide value for shareholders in the form of increased advertising, restricting features previously available to all users behind subscriptions, or adding low quality "bells and whistles" to a product to justify major price hikes. 

 

Homecoming doesn't have business customers, and doesn't do paid subscriptions. This isn't systemic decay due to capitalist exploitation, this is is an update you don't like.

[High_Beam]

2 hours ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

That's not what enshittified means.

Cool.  Thanks for the information.  Fight hard.

[DemonSeed]

On 5/29/2025 at 9:05 AM, Troo said:

Neighborhood pins on map and names missing? I only see a couple.

 

Neighborhoods

One Statesman Plaza (Music)

Christie Square (Level 40-44) (Music)

Paragon University Medical Campus (Level ) (Music)

Kallisti Medical Center(Level 40-44) (Music)

New Flagtown (Level 45-48) (Music)

Flagtown Memorial Park (Level 45-48) (Music)

Paragon Trade Center (Level 49-54) (Music)

Blackwing Headquarters (Level 49-54) (Music)

Kallisti Marina (Level 40-44) (Music)

Maxwell Stadium (Level 40-44) (Music)

Theatre Row (Level 40-44) (Music)

Collier Industrial Park (Level 45-48) (Music)

Adamstown (Level 45-50) (Music)

Adamstown Infirmary (Music)

Old Slough (Level 49-54) (Music)

Some of these may not be actual labeled neighborhoods. Such as the two hospitals. But the Atlas Park page has them under neighborhoods (likely because they have the pop-up text) so I did the same.

[KaizenSoze]

7 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

These guys are friggin rough!

 

People on test were saying they are in live, but I've never run into them.

 

I tackled them solo a few times and think I figured out some of their secrets.  They get aoe+tohit from Psychic Battery and maybe fortitude, and end drain from Psychic Flow.

 

Ageless solved the end problem, or, I think I may have been able to move out of the aoe for psychic flow. For the +tohit I basically had to cheat and pop purples... It took 100% defense to overcome their tohit buffs.

 

 The Awakened have been around for awhile. They are quite nasty.

 https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/The_Awakened

 

 The key arc is a red side arc from Mr. G. Fun contact, I highly recommend him.

 

 The amount of -heal they hit you with can be a big issue. To top of all the psi damage and energy drain.

[Graysworn]

There's a weird invisible invisible wall around the top of One Statesman Tower. You run smack-dab into it when you jump from the top in most directions, except for east. I'm not sure if it's intentional, i.e. to prevent players from flying over the War Walls, but it's noticeable. Also pretty visible with the Teleport power (see 2nd photo).