Focused Feedback: Plant Control

[WindDemon21]

On 6/4/2025 at 12:47 PM, mistagoat said:

Creepers is a bit underwhelming, you just don't get the amount of tentacles as on live. Regardless of the damage values it feels diminished.

I assume we're still waiting for a patch to fix the creeper spawn rate. Cause if they ruin my field of creeper vines all hell is breaking loose.

 

Edit: Because all those vines, are, without a doubt, my favorite thing on my favorite toon. Do not go live without fixing the spawn rate!

Edited Thursday at 05:21 PM by WindDemon21

[LastHumanSoldier]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I assume we're still waiting for a patch to fix the creeper spawn rate. Cause if they ruin my field of creeper vines all hell is breaking loose.

It will top out to the same.  Try it on 0 or +1x8.  Just spawns slower.

 

Check out the video earlier.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

It will top out to the same.  Try it on 0 or +1x8.  Just spawns slower.

 

Check out the video earlier.

Spawning slower, is still affecting the spawn rate. It needs fixed before it goes live.

[mistagoat]

2 minutes ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

It will top out to the same.  Try it on 0 or +1x8.  Just spawns slower.

 

Check out the video earlier.

In my admittedly brief testing, I couldn't get more than 5 to show up. The same spawn on live got me 8.

Are you seeing more than 5 spawning on Beta?

[LastHumanSoldier]

The issue is if you play on anything above plus 2 or Higher they often will die because of the smaller number of creeper spawns.  Keep thr diff low and use tactics it will get there just much Slower.

 

I tested it on a plant Kin

Edited Thursday at 05:42 PM by LastHumanSoldier
Dictation was bad.

[WindDemon21]

4 minutes ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

The issue is if you play on anything above plus 2 or Higher they often will die because of the smaller number of creeper spawns.  Keep thr diff low and use tactics it will get there just much Slower.

 

I tested it on a plant Kin

You just described exacty why they need to FIX the creeper spawn rate and why it must not be nerfed. They die when there are a lot of them but spawning faster and more plentifully keeps them up en-masse for effectiveness and more importantly chaotic fun. "less but stronger" to which they aren't stronger anyway, is just not it. MORE AND FASTER!

[LastHumanSoldier]

On the same page.  The goal of the changes this page was to cut down plant (pun intended).

 

Its not ever going to be what it is on prod server, its not a refuse burn anymore but it is weaker than it was, and you have to take more powers now to maintain some of the controls you used to get from just creepers and seeds.

 

This was the goal though.

I am trimming plant from my roster personally.

[WitchofDread]

Yes I shall also, like many, be shelving my plant toons.

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

On the same page.  The goal of the changes this page was to cut down plant (pun intended).

 

Its not ever going to be what it is on prod server, its not a refuse burn anymore but it is weaker than it was, and you have to take more powers now to maintain some of the controls you used to get from just creepers and seeds.

 

This was the goal though.

I am trimming plant from my roster personally.

The seeds change along is such a huge nerf that it solves that, they even lowered it's duration AGAIN to keep the 16 targets (which is unwavering in how it needs to stay 16) but even then 12 scalar was too low of a nerf to it, but to go down to an 8 scalar!?

 

Creepers were also already hit with proc-nerfs, so they're fine and need to stay at the original spawn rate. That's like, honestly wholly the fun of plant, and it can' not be nerfed, supposedly is still a bug anyway? but must be fixed before it goes to live!

[LastHumanSoldier]

I just noticed all the old feedback gas been cleared!

 

The context is that the creepers you are seeing is the fixed version.

 

The intital candidate patch hard capped them to 5. This rate is the new fixed rate and "upped" damage.

[Vinceq98]

Y'all must be doing something wrong. My plant storm controller was steam rolling MALTAs at 53x8.  I never did that on live because if I had a critical failure from seeds I was dead from the mobs. Spirit tree , spore burst and seeds I was cruising along and killing so damn fast. I made a video of my test character just deleting spawns on the open beta build 4 thread. 

[Caimie]

I've been messing around with my level 50 Plant/Ice/Ice Perma-Dom Dominator that I transferred to Brainstorm this morning.

I pulled out my 5 piece Unbreakable Constraint from Vines and slotted 5 piece Ragnarok (didn't use the Proc from either one)

I then slotted Cupid's Crush into Creepers, since that skill already had 6 slots in it (I originally had 5 piece Ragnarok in it with the Posi blast Proc as the only proc)

While I do have Ice Storm on this character, I never used it because I wanted to see what the latest version of Vines and Creepers are like for a Dominator, but for some reason whey I summon Creepers the combat log states I activated Ice Storm power. (screen clip shows what I'm talking about)

(A side note on Creepers is that if you summon it, defeat a group them and go to the next then jump over the group, the pseudo pet aggro the group and they turn and attack you)
The Creeper vine summon is still slow and the fact the first vine it summons does nothing as far as grabbing the mobs attention before the others spawn defeats the main purpose that I used Creepers for. 

I don't expect Creepers to do the proc bombed damage it can do on Live, but it does need to be turned up a couple notches at least.  I prefer the way it summons on Live, but if that isn't going to happen, at least consider giving it's vines a bit more robustness and the initial summoning vine a taunt to fill the summoning gap between it and the rest of the vines.
 

The AOE Vine Hold change with the rotating holds don't care for at all, on a Dominator. 

The increased damage is a nice addition, but not really noticeable.

I only found it moderately useful if I summoned Creepers first then used Vines.  The combo seemed to work 'ok' together, but it's not very efficient.  The old Vines is a better version in my opinion. 

 

I don't have Spores, Flytrap or Spirit Tree in this Dominator's build (it's my only Plant/ alt I have ), so I can't really comment on those 3 Skills.

 

Edit:  I should note that the screen clip is from me messing with some Warrior groups on my way to do Chip's introduction mission that had +3 lvl x 4 group size Blackwing with Bosses (sometimes multiple Bosses) in the groups.

Edited Thursday at 08:04 PM by Caimie

[Ratch_]

Clear video comparison on the same AE mish. First clip is live, second is beta server. Plant control now has increased versatility, the damage has taken a hit though.

Creepers is slotted with procs in both vids. Last slot is purple +5 acc/rech

Edited Thursday at 10:35 PM by Ratch_

[LastHumanSoldier]

1 hour ago, Ratch_ said:

Clear video comparison on the same AE mish. First clip is live, second is beta server. Plant control now has increased versatility, the damage has taken a hit though.

Creepers is slotted with procs in both vids. Last slot is purple +5 acc/rech

You should do one more where you slot for damage/recharge on the creepers. I didn't find procs very impactful on my Plan/Kin (though the kin might throw it off)

Creeper spawn rate looks fine in the beta video too. About what I see.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:45 PM by LastHumanSoldier

[Ratch_]

2 hours ago, LastHumanSoldier said:

You should do one more where you slot for damage/recharge on the creepers. I didn't find procs very impactful on my Plan/Kin (though the kin might throw it off)

Creeper spawn rate looks fine in the beta video too. About what I see.

 

 

With 3 procs and two +5 dmg IOs it's a bit faster. However it's also within the margin of error - getting about 20-30 seconds faster with this so I do think it's better. Nothing game changing though

Edited yesterday at 02:17 AM by Ratch_

[Caimie]

After messing around on my Dominator a bit more, I'm still getting Creepers with the initial 1 vine then the delay then the rest appear and it's never been more than 5 vines.

 

I guess I also have a question aimed at the Devs regarding Creepers:

  Was there any consideration or talk of keeping the spawning the same as it is on Live but only changing it so that Pet IO sets can be slotted into it (so proc bombing couldn't be possible) and then adjusting it's damage modifiers down or up (depending on Controller or Dominator) to bring into an acceptable realm? 

 

I don't play Controllers, so I can't speak from that perspective, but the Seeds changes are acceptable and I can make them work.

 

The Vines change with rotating holds doesn't cut it, sorry.  It's now more like a 'Creepers Lite with only 10 Calories'.  I prefer the original version with the adaptable recharge and if it's damage was lacking, just bring it up to par with the other AOE Holds.

Edited yesterday at 03:44 AM by Caimie

[victusfate]

I'm trying to keep an open mind. Working on figuring out new builds for my plant trollers and my new plant/thorns dom to adapt to the changes. Appreciate all those testing more thoroughly than myself (just tried a bit of AE for the initial build and logged off a little disappointed).

 

quick summary:

- can still skip spores?

- replace damage procs from creepers for a damage set

- plant pet is a bit tankier! - take that jack frost you are the weakest link!

- vines is weird control/damage now 

- pull with seeds and tree is ok

- spam roots (I like the extra pet spawner in it, fiery orb, or energy font)

 

 

[mistagoat]

7 hours ago, Caimie said:

Was there any consideration or talk of keeping the spawning the same as it is on Live but only changing it so that Pet IO sets can be slotted into it (so proc bombing couldn't be possible) and then adjusting it's damage modifiers down or up (depending on Controller or Dominator) to bring into an acceptable realm? 

This would be my preferred solution. The proc bombing was the only complaint I ever heard about the power so just fix that aspect of the power and leave the rest as it stands.

[WindDemon21]

Right. Again, DO NOT change anything about the spawn rate of creepers. Nerf the proc damage i'm more than fine with as long as that isn't touched.

 

Also, please consider making spirit tree ( and don't forget triage beacon too) to have the higher regen 250% is fine so slight nerf compared to double, but be non-stackable, and last a little longer as well, the 90s was fine, but since you can't stack it honestly even 120s would be nice for it's duration, and lower the recharge more to about 60s since again, it's not stacking, but then can be used more often when needed. But the current iteration is really annoying in long fights keeping it up and having to spam it more to keep the same regen. For tree and triage, this would go very far to helping its versatility and just plain not be annoying too in the process in the long battles where these powers are meant to shine more.

 

And yeah, bump seeds duration a little, going down to 8 scalar (thanks for the target cap fix btw), but 8 scalar is still way too low.

[Riverdusk]

I'll still always beat the drum for the ST immobilizes to have their damage sped up or buffed.  Right now entangle is still the most skippable power as just taking something like arcane bolt beats it in value.

 

Vines might be the other most skippable now, but that's not really different from live where I also usually skipped it.

 

Otherwise looks pretty good I think.  With the changes I might give a plant/storm a try again on live, storm makes up for the bit of damage hit plant has taken.  Plant now brings more control options and a bit more reliable self sustain that storm lacks (spirit tree being up more often).