Nerfs - Stealth Changes - Bullshit

[Captain Fabulous]

8 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

Whoopsie! The complaint was about changes not being in the patch notes. It wasn't about changes-that-arcane-thinks-matter not being in the patch notes.

 

Your personal opinion on whether the change is impactful are irrelevant to the complaint. And that's before we even dissect that opinion and all the assumptions and conclusions you used to form it.

 

 

But it was presented as if it is some kind of stealth nerf, that the devs made a change and intentionally tried to hide it from us, which is ludicrous. Hence the replies. Not only is it silly to assume the devs made a stealth nerf, the "nerf" in question is a nothingburger.

[TheMoneyMaker]

6 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

  

 

We'll look into this; I can confirm that Moment of Glory did change in Issue 28, Page 2, and if it was missed from the patch notes we'll correct it as soon as I can get the correct notes.

I'm going to take this opportunity to once again, remind folks to please not assume mistakes in bad faith. I can promise you that nobody on the Homecoming Team works on City of Heroes with the intention to try and make things a worse experience for our players or to be dishonest about changes.

 

Things get missed, we make human errors, we're never trying to deceive anybody but if you respond automatically assuming that we are being deceptive, then most any trust in communicating with players goes out the window and everybody loses. The game's data and numbers are very transparent (City of Data just updated for Issue 28, Page 2) so it's odd to assume we'd intentionally hide a change knowing that players can very easily check against exact data.

We're volunteers who regularly are juggling this entire production-quality development project on top of everything in our personal lives/day jobs.

That sounds like an admission of guilt if I ever heard one.  

[Forager]

13 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

But it was presented as if it is some kind of stealth nerf, that the devs made a change and intentionally tried to hide it from us, which is ludicrous. Hence the replies. Not only is it silly to assume the devs made a stealth nerf, the "nerf" in question is a nothingburger.

 

So you are interpreting this complaint as some sort of accusation or an attack on the developers' character? Was it the word "stealth" that did that for you or something else?

[Captain Fabulous]

19 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

So you are interpreting this complaint as some sort of accusation or an attack on the developers' character? Was it the word "stealth" that did that for you or something else?

I dunno, maybe it was title "Nerfs - Stealth Changes - Bullshit" and the outraged tone of the text. How else does one define a stealth nerf other than an intentionally-hidden detrimental change?

[Captain Fabulous]

2 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

That sounds like an admission of guilt if I ever heard one.  

There were changes to MoG, and it was documented in the patch notes, so I'm not sure if you're being serious or this is supposed to be sarcasm.

[Forager]

9 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

outraged tone of the text

 

Lol wut?

[skoryy]

Karens gonna Karen

Edited yesterday at 09:21 PM by skoryy

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

There were changes to MoG, and it was documented in the patch notes, so I'm not sure if you're being serious or this is supposed to be sarcasm.

Can't I be sarcastically serious? Or seriously sarcastic?

[ivanhedgehog]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

the only thing i can think is against BAB   the guy packs a wallop.  but 15 secs?  when has anyone put down the Freedom phalanx in... okay, some of these geeks have.  but still, thats the only place it might be useful.

 

4 pts KB prot is great against 99% game...

so you are ok with lowering tanks and brutes to 4 points? they wouldnt notice the difference. The power being nerfed is a high tier long recharge power. There was zero reason that this was a problem. or can you articulate why it was a problem rather than gaslighting us that it is inconsequential?

[skoryy]

13 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so you are ok with lowering tanks and brutes to 4 points? they wouldnt notice the difference. The power being nerfed is a high tier long recharge power. There was zero reason that this was a problem. or can you articulate why it was a problem rather than gaslighting us that it is inconsequential?

I notice you still haven't explained where a 100 knock status prot is necessary in the game.

[ivanhedgehog]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

No. Are you publicly making a stink about something with zero impact on gameplay or not?

If the change has zero impact, why was it changed? do the devs randomly change things that arent part of the game? If people have noticed it it DOES have impact to some people. A bunch of the changes in this patch made the game less fun for some players.  If the change is so inconsequential, why are you making it? what purpose is doubling mob regeneration for? That change will be back, they said it just needs more work. when it comes back, it will be noticed.

[skoryy]

8 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

If the change has zero impact, why was it changed

 

It was a typo from live devs. CP explained it upthread.

[ivanhedgehog]

12 minutes ago, skoryy said:

I notice you still haven't explained where a 100 knock status prot is necessary in the game.

you havent explained why a 10 knockback protect is needed

[Snarky]

43 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so you are ok with lowering tanks and brutes to 4 points? they wouldnt notice the difference. The power being nerfed is a high tier long recharge power. There was zero reason that this was a problem. or can you articulate why it was a problem rather than gaslighting us that it is inconsequential?

Hog,  I run Dark Armor melee.  My ass has no KB prot.  gaslight that!

[Forager]

I think maybe people read the title and ran with their interpretation of it... like an Aunt sharing things on Facebook.

 

Does anyone have an argument why changes shouldn't be included in patch notes? Or why it's ok if they're not? I can't think of a reasonable argument against OPs actual complaint, so I would love to read one.

 

But if you're still arguing about the specific example... have fun I guess lol.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Forager said:

I think maybe people read the title and ran with their interpretation of it... like an Aunt sharing things on Facebook.

 

Does anyone have an argument why changes shouldn't be included in patch notes? Or why it's ok if they're not? I can't think of a reasonable argument against OPs actual complaint, so I would love to read one.

 

But if you're still arguing about the specific example... have fun I guess lol.

Summary ito the actual serious parts of this thread:

The OP claimed there was a stealth nerf. The devs came in and clarified that there wasn’t. Not sure where the confusion still is.

Edited 19 hours ago by golstat2003

[Psyonico]

49 minutes ago, Forager said:

Does anyone have an argument why changes shouldn't be included in patch notes?

A dev explained this already.

 

sometimes when you make 1000 changes to something, you forget to notate the 1001st change.

 

Devs are human, humans make mistakes, get over yourself.

 

also, there has been 1 change that has been listed in this thread that wasn’t listed in the patch notes, but several people are acting like the entire game got changed without telling anyone.

[Troo]

12 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

We'll look into this; I can confirm that Moment of Glory did change in Issue 28, Page 2, and if it was missed from the patch notes we'll correct it as soon as I can get the correct notes.

I'm going to take this opportunity to once again, remind folks to please not assume mistakes in bad faith. I can promise you that nobody on the Homecoming Team works on City of Heroes with the intention to try and make things a worse experience for our players or to be dishonest about changes.

 

Things get missed, we make human errors, we're never trying to deceive anybody but if you respond automatically assuming that we are being deceptive, then most any trust in communicating with players goes out the window and everybody loses. The game's data and numbers are very transparent (City of Data just updated for Issue 28, Page 2) so it's odd to assume we'd intentionally hide a change knowing that players can very easily check against exact data.

We're volunteers who regularly are juggling this entire production-quality development project on top of everything in our personal lives/day jobs.

7 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

There was no intentional nerf to the MoG mez/knock protections. Will look into what's going there as soon as I can but note that player KB resistance cap is 99%. Repel resistance cap is 100%. 

 

Having anything above 100% is not just overkill, but certainly a typo from someone years ago thinking 100 in a spreadsheet meant 100%.

 

MoG still gets players to the cap, making any protection over mag 1 only meaningful while facing irresistible auto-hit knockback (i specify autohit due to the high defense the power provides).

 

Appreciated. 

 

[Forager]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

Devs are human, humans make mistakes, get over yourself

 

So... is that like a no?

 

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

several people are acting like the entire game got changed without telling anyone.

 

I didn't know that. This is the only thread on the subject that Ive participated in, though.

[Captain Fabulous]

3 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

If the change has zero impact, why was it changed? do the devs randomly change things that arent part of the game? If people have noticed it it DOES have impact to some people. A bunch of the changes in this patch made the game less fun for some players.  If the change is so inconsequential, why are you making it? what purpose is doubling mob regeneration for? That change will be back, they said it just needs more work. when it comes back, it will be noticed.

The change has zero impact. The power is functionally identical to what it was before. This was explained above. As to why the change was made, we don't know yet, it's being looked into.

[Forager]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

Summary ito the actual serious parts of this thread:

The OP claimed there was a stealth nerf. The devs came in and clarified that there wasn’t. Not sure where the confusion still is.

 

Hmm. I interpreted the body of OPs post to mean that changes should be listed in the patch notes... because that's what it says. Most of the confusion lies in people reacting to the word choice of the title and arguing that his example is not a significant change. Only a couple of people have addressed whether or not changes should be listed in the patch notes.

 

But... changes should be listed in the patch notes. I don't think anyone has argued against that.

[Psyonico]

8 minutes ago, Forager said:

So... is that like a no?

The reason is “a mistake was made” they didn’t intentionally try to hide this change.

[Troo]

8 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

But it was presented as if it is some kind of stealth nerf, that the devs made a change and intentionally tried to hide it from us, which is ludicrous.

 

Just fyi CapFab, it was presented as 'Nerfs - Stealth Changes - Bullshit'.

Dashes in this case were meant to represent a break or pause; to differentiate them. I never wrote 'stealth nerf'. Did not write 'intentional'. Apologies if that was your take away.

 

6 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

The change has zero impact. The power is functionally identical to what it was before. This was explained above. As to why the change was made, we don't know yet, it's being looked into.

 

To be clear the power is not functionally identical, but they said they'd look into it and that's enough for me on that power.

There are still many undocumented changes. Folks should be encouraged to note them. If you see something say something.

There were still changes being made, supposedly this has stopped and the focus is now on bugs and dialing in the new stuff.

Edited 19 hours ago by Troo

[Forager]

1 minute ago, Psyonico said:

The reason is “a mistake was made” they didn’t intentionally try to hide this change.

 

Yeah but the question was "should changes be listed in the patch notes?"

[Psyonico]

@Forager

 

On 6/26/2025 at 4:55 AM, Troo said:

changes are still happening and it's kinda bullshit.

is not an innocent question of “should changes be documented?”