Letting go of Def and giving in to the concept

[tidge]

I just felt like quoting this:

 

16 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Whats funny is most of the forums builds are poorly optimized and not even remotely minmaxed.

 

They all focus entirely too much on personal survival without understanding in a team or even solo you’re holding yourself back by pursuing 45 def on that blaster instead of 20-30 at most. 

 

I suppose in the minds of many of the players, they've 'maxxed' something, and in some (small?) fraction of those players I suppose it is possible that for some content the build will sit on something like an "plateau of performance"... yet there never seems to be a shortage of posted builds that simply don't look fun to play. I enjoy seeing the builds where the player talks about their choices for play, and less about stats.

[Zect]

13 hours ago, hoodedKitsune said:

What are the 3 and 4 star teams like? I have tried 1 and 2 and had fun but never tried anything past that.  Heck I haven't even tried the labyrinth yet because I have been spending the past months doing....well THIS!  

 

Compared to "normal" content, there is more emphasis on:

• maneuver and positioning; to only engage what is necessary (4* mobs have very high perception btw) and avoid instant death mechanics
• target prioritization; to kill priority targets first (such as the hydra EBs in LGTF, smelters in aeon or hostless in ITF)
• coordination; to work with other players, execute a plan and bring what is needed to the table.

Optimized 4* builds typically have:

• little personal mitigation, only low hanging fruit like the uniques; usually no fighting pool. Mitigation comes from barrier destinies + shields from powersets such as cold or FF
• +maxHP, because this is less available from ally buffs. This helps you to avoid being 1-shot, after which it is the healer's job to heal you
• mostly damage optimization (procs), because this is the optimization that matters most in this threat environment. They may sacrifice slotting damage enhancement to pack more procs even if this leads to less dps on paper, because they assume a kin is there to FS them
• less rech than general-purpose builds, because they assume a kin is there to SB them

4* optimized builds are often not optimal in general content (where you don't know the buff composition, and there may or may not be a kin and barriers). Conversely, you can do just fine on a 4* even if you don't optimize fully for it, as long as you are geared and you do good damage. I have done many 4*s on general content builds because I can't be bothered to respec every single alt. 

 

I really need to emphasize that knowledge, situational awareness and a good attitude are more important than the build. It's less about what you have slotted in your powers and more about what is slotted in your brain.

 

 

[Zect]

15 hours ago, Ukase said:

From my seat however, because I probably have slower reflexes than some of you who have been gaming on much more challenging games than I have, I need all the protection I can get from bad decisions and sometimes inaction, or slow action.

 

That's the neat part, reflexes don't even come into the picture. Waiting to fix shit as it happens is a recipe for stress and disaster, not to mention very unstylish.

 

What you want to do is be aware of what's going on, anticipate what will happen next, and pre-empt (or at least be prepared) for any problems that appear. This is why I keep talking about knowledge and situational awareness. Situations usually take time to develop in an unfavorable direction before turning into catastrophes, giving you many opportunities to rectify the situation.

 

[electric_emu]

I enjoy optimizing builds within my character concept (mostly just meaning I have a travel power and ancillary pool set in stone).  But I've also found that 3 or more LOTGs and the standard suite of uniques gives more than enough of an edge in standard content without requiring much in the way of creative sacrifice.  

[Riverdusk]

Wakies and temp rez powers are easy enough.  But another way to go is to pick a powerset or epic pool that has a self rez (especially if it buffs you or damages enemies on use).  It's another way to worry even less about dying.  It's just an opportunity to use another one of your powers and to say to the enemy, "You can't keep me down!"

[Uncle Shags]

14 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

a note: building for defense is not a min/max strategy in HC

 

Maybe for you. I'm not so comfortable telling someone else what they should build for. 

[Maelwys]

On 6/30/2025 at 7:48 PM, Seed22 said:

Whats funny is most of the forums builds are poorly optimized and not even remotely minmaxed.

 

They all focus entirely too much on personal survival without understanding in a team or even solo you’re holding yourself back by pursuing 45 def on that blaster instead of 20-30 at most. 

 

21 hours ago, tidge said:

I suppose in the minds of many of the players, they've 'maxxed' something, and in some (small?) fraction of those players I suppose it is possible that for some content the build will sit on something like an "plateau of performance"... yet there never seems to be a shortage of posted builds that simply don't look fun to play. I enjoy seeing the builds where the player talks about their choices for play, and less about stats.

 

I had a Sonic/Elec Blapper many moons ago on Live who was softcapped to S/L.

At the time it was both fun and very effective; since back then Blasters had no sustains (and consistent mez protection via Clarion etc. wasn't a thing) and a lot more attacks were S/L  typed so softcapped S/L defense plus Aid Self drastically increased their survivability and let them hang in melee range to "blap" things almost indefinitely. And it wasn't a hugely difficult or expensive endeavour - in fact, I still have their original non-optimised build from ~2008 (empty slots are where the non-inherent Fitness Pool was: Hurdle with 2x Jump IOs, Health with a Miracle proc, and Stamina with 2x Efficacy Adaptors and a regular EndMod).

Their playstyle essentially just involved closing to melee range (firing off Scream and Shriek on the way) then whacking away with Charged brawl, Havoc Punch, Shocking Grasp and Thunder Strike. Their Health was just over the 1600 mark; so they had a fair bit of leeway for a streak of unlucky hits; but Snow Storm and Siren's Song could be used to split up and/or mitigate damage from a particularly tough spawn; and Hibernate worked well as an emergency button. Power Sink kept their Blue Bar looking healthy (oh the days before Blaster sustains and crashless nukes!)

They weren't my first choice for bringing on non-PUG TFs; but they were a good choice in PUGs and smaller groups.






These days I only have one Blaster who is softcapped; and they're an Archery/TA.

Their playstyle is almost the exact opposite of my old Sonic/Elec Blapper - they try to stay at very long range (up to ~150 feet away) whilst churning out a constant stream of AoEs (e.g. Snipe + Oil Slick + Explosive Arrow + Repulsion Force Bomb + Rain of Arrows + Fistful of Arrows) with the recharge rate of the two "nukes" being maximise via Hasten and FF procs (plus Ageless, if desired). Ranged Softcap plus passively three Heal Procs and regenerating ~40 HP/Sec keeps them healthy; and they have Repulsion Field, Force of Nature and PFF to fall back on in an emergency.

Whilst at first glance it might look like most of their AoEs have been gutted to use them as set bonus mules; neither Oil Slick nor Rain of Arrows proc well (Pseudopets) so they're losing hardly anything; and Repulsion Force Bomb is appropriately frankenslotted + procced. So Explosive and Fistful are the only ones that are lacking; and they're essentially "fillers". The result is an effective AoE-focused Long-Ranged Blaster which is very self-sufficient. They're not quite as much of a rolling AoE engine of destruction as my Fire/Ice Blaster; but they're holding comparatively little back by building for the Ranged Softcap.

(and yes, they struggle a bit more on cave maps; but they're decent on most other indoor maps and very good when "outdoors")




I wouldn't bring this build to a 4 star team; but then optimal 4 star builds require very different approaches to general content builds anyway.

I enjoy tweaking builds; and I like to hit arbitrary thresholds (like "round numbers" of Maximum HP - it irks me no end if a toon is sitting at 1592 instead of >1600!) but I also believe that having at least some level of mitigation is always desirable in CoX for general content... the trick is finding the balance - sufficient levels of mitigation; then ramping up damage output (typically via procs; but occasionally through other things like -res stacking and/or pet summons etc). And certain powersets (like Archery and TA) gain less benefit from having their core abilities procbombed, so on those sets you have much more leeway to chase "superfluous" set bonuses (like +Def; or +Rech; or whatever).

So I think it's important to note that there are some occasions where you can "have your cake and eat it too"... even if they're in the (vast) minority.
And I 100% agree that a lot of builds posted here (whether they're chasing +Def or not) are not remotely optimised.
 

[Ukase]

On 7/1/2025 at 7:40 AM, Zect said:

 

That's the neat part, reflexes don't even come into the picture. Waiting to fix shit as it happens is a recipe for stress and disaster, not to mention very unstylish.

 

What you want to do is be aware of what's going on, anticipate what will happen next, and pre-empt (or at least be prepared) for any problems that appear. This is why I keep talking about knowledge and situational awareness. Situations usually take time to develop in an unfavorable direction before turning into catastrophes, giving you many opportunities to rectify the situation.

 

I think experience, in game, just like in real life, help things slow down so you can react, or even be proactive more seamlessly. 

I'm someone who wouldn't mind doing a 4*. I've done one. I was carried through with incans galore on my ice blaster - that I thought was built for it, it wasn't. The idea of not taking frigid protection was just lunacy to me. It didn't stop me from doing damage, but if I could go back in time, I'd have followed more of @loc's outline. It's just terribly hard to trust in a team - unless you know that team. This particular effort I was on, was a pug. Fortunately, they had their 6 core folks, and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. With the right powerset. And the ability to use discord. I think if I did these more, I'd enjoy them more. Heck, from what I hear, you folks knock these out faster than the standard lgtf. 

I have been playing my 2nd Fire/MC blaster, with a different approach. I've not given any thought to defense. Like none. I still took weave - but that was for the lotg mule. I worked fold space into it...which I'm trying to get used to. I'm tempted to take the procs out of inferno so it will recharge as fast as fold space. That seems like it would do more dps to me. But for now, it's proc'd. And the ridiculous thing - playing it with the same settings, it's been defeated twice. Once in Croatoa by one of those boss Tuatha's who did Seismic smash on me when I was already without greens, and before I got inner will. And the other time (aside from the 3 suicides in the abyss for HPT) was last night in the labyrinth, because I used burst of speed by accident at the wrong time. 

I don't know that I can abandon my tendency to build for defense. I know I would if I knew who I was going to be teaming with routinely, and they had the right combination of buffs. But until I get that, I think it would be fine either way. So, for me, like most things in this game, the answer is "It depends". 

[FlammeFatale]

I have a Peacebringer with 0% defense but overcapped resistances. It is almost unkillable in 4/8 solo missions. The only thing to watch for is chain mezzes, against carnies for instance, because every mezz hits.

Okay, I took Stealth and Combat Jumping which can provide a small defense bonus. But I use these powers  as mules and am happy to keep them toggled off.

 

 

 

 

[Zappalina]

I started making character that I disliked the look of the power or the set combos on to challenge and see if I could like them, or if they'd continue to suck in my opinion, I tried a stone/stone tanker on live, hated it put a stone with spines because i hate the boogery green of the minuscule particles that come off of spines attacks no matter how it's tinted and I loved playing a stone/spines tank she is ridiculous to watch her spin around and just cool to play.  Thought peace-bringers were too complicated with all their choices, made a mostly human one, love her she's so fun to play.

Same with dom's I don't like those a lot but I made a arsenal/energy dom frickin love her i don't really care about permadom because everyone on the Excel server seems to defeat the enemies fairly quickly so what's the sense in having permadom when i only get to fire off one or two attacks before the next group.  

So i also I switch back to ones I think I like or to try out the new sets, and now if I get stagnant in the future I still have the whole stalker chain to choose from a lot more doms and warshades to do.

[Snarky]

I find myself building “outside the box” since starting Blasting.

 

”The box” is Blapper, which is the core design of the Blaster sets.  
 

So,  I have built all range things.  Beam/temp, Elec/Temp, or AR/Dev.  Then, instead of a cookie cutter build, build a TON of +range.  Old school ww2 battleship tactics.  Avoid most damage bu standing away from it.  Then hammer the opponent.  
 

My current Dark Dark Dark Corruptor does not build for defense.  That is inside it’s debuffs. (Get that Fear out first!) and then +range. (Lot of cones…). Yes, it is a Blapper because that is Dark Dark.  But anytime I can sit outside the scrum and hose down everything with cones i do. Then use Nuke very tactically, and heal the team only when it is necessary to stay up.  Harass and abuse, while debuffing the schmucks.  Have the targeted AoE debuff for toughest fights. This keeps me alive. (Along with team heal and st heal). It is a very fun strategy that takes patience and understanding, but it is not helped substantially by destroying what i made for softcap defense, and i would argue is hindered by doing so. 

[Heatstroke]

I have found that if I can build defense into a build, I will but im not going to sacrifice effectiveness or fun to do so. 

 

 

"Debt aint nuttin but a badge"

Edited yesterday at 12:01 PM by Heatstroke

[skoryy]

My WP/MA tank was where I learned that layered defenses would work here in making someone nigh indestructible. I also learned that having all of five attacks with just one booster was boring as heck. Hence my new Fire/Energy tank that is less defense reliant, definitely squishier, but a heck of a lot more fun.

[dukedukes]

Building defense is an issue of reconciling what you want vs what you need. Some characters need high defense to function, you may prefer to play aggressively potentially taking alphas not as a tank, or the content is more demanding (unless you put on the Barrier kid wheels). For most players and builds you don't need to go nuts on defense. If you really enjoy a particular character you should experiment, respecs are cheap. Try dropping the fighting pool and see how it goes, and other things. On my favourite character I've performed dozens of respecs to fine-tune them.

For team play the characters I've seen that may want higher defense investment (to what degree varies) is generally any character hanging out in melee range like blappers, some doms, scrappers, tanks, anyone with an aggro aura (poisons Venomous Gas, etc). My grav characters are played very aggressive so I max ranged defense for those.

 

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, Snarky said:

 Harass and abuse

This part is for his teammates as well as the npcs. 

[kanga]

On characters without natural defense toggles, I will often just build to about 30% odd, that way they can be a small purple away from softcap, or perhaps some other click power like support core hybrid. 

[Amp Up]

Y'all are making my ass sweat with all this math.