The Idea Police

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

4 hours ago, battlewraith said:

I'd like to see an example of a thread in the suggestions forum that was a success.

 

I found one!

COMPARE: 

TO: 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by GM_GooglyMoogly

[arcane]

37 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

It's a strange, defensive way to respond.

 

I never proposed any censorship, but we somehow got 5 pages of people arguing against it. I don't know exactly what that's called... but it's been weird.

 

I wonder how people got the idea that you were against the expression of a viewpoint just because you made a public call for the GM’s to declare all disagreeables to be stupid until said disagreeables cease and desist with all disagreement. That’s crazy that people made that connection. 

[Steampunkette]

14 hours ago, Forager said:

The irony of your post aside...

 

I'm complaining about people taking part in a way that is counterproductive. I'm saying that what they are doing hurts that process.

No irony in the post at all.

 

You've made the proposition that it is "Stupid" to respond with statements about the dev's time (constraints) or problems inherent within a suggestion as presented. An example problem might be "The dev team doesn't have a 3d Asset Artist and cannot make what you're asking for."

 

I've made the counterargument that those things are productive, and useful. Specifically for refining a suggestion into something workable.

 

Now you've backed off that position into a broader "Whatever's counterproductive" position as a method of moving the goalposts to make direct opposition to your proposition more generally difficult... But then I would just point you to the pinned post on what is and isn't allowed. And it it allowed to make posts which contain solely opinion without any intention towards productivity... 

 

Which means your complaint is already answered by the mods in that thread, and in this thread, thanks to Googly Moogly.

 

Negative Feedback is still feedback. 

[arcane]

Could a GM please post a PSA that anyone who disagrees with me is intellectually deficient? I love free speech btw. 

[Forager]

6 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

You've made the proposition that it is "Stupid" to respond with statements about the dev's time

 

It is.

 

7 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Now you've backed off that position

 

I haven't. 

 

7 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Which means your complaint is already answered by the mods in that thread, and in this thread, thanks to Googly Moogly.

 

It wasn't. 

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

It is.

 

I haven't. 

 

It wasn't. 

Ah! Well.

 

Then I fall back to the position that your proposition is ignorant and your complaints are unjustified.

 

With the addendum that you don't seem to pay attention to what the mods write on the forums. Which is ironic, considering you seek for them to engage in moderation more to your liking.

 

Next time, perhaps choose a more appropriate forum for your whining. This is where Suggestions go. So that's my suggestion to you!

[Aracknight]

39 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Hey! All of my suggestions have been the bestest most fantastic. 

 

Disclaimer: This should not be confused with general discussion topics I've started which range from pot-stirring to shit-show with a smattering of thoughtful introspective.

 

It's all good Troo.  You quoted my die hard meme earlier, so it's  all love.  The people who patrol this subforum that I'm essentially calling Mean Girls however, either don't know or don't believe that they are doing anything that could be received as harmful or hurtful, which in my opinion is sort of the misguided point this thread is trying to make.

[Forager]

"A hit dog will holler."

 

Nobody proposed censorship. Ignoring isn't a solution... and you're allowed to disagree.

 

I understand the defensiveness upon finding out that a talking point you have used before is stupid. It seems that this word has caused an emotional reaction in some of you and some of you may have taken it personally.

 

Everybody does stupid things from time to time. Everybody overreacts, projects, speaks without thinking... everybody does that. You're not stupid because you've done something stupid. You didn't know it was stupid. That's fine. I explained why.

 

I think there are a few bad apples spoiling this bunch. This is one of their favorite talking points and they will retreat to it when they can't defend or address any points being made. I think addressing one of their most common talking points will go a long way towards improving conversations. There are a few others, but this one is the best one to address.

 

If you're not one of these folks, then I'm not talking about you. If you are, flame on I guess.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, dukedukes said:

 

 

 

If there is still room for arguments and facts it can only help to test the idea further, but there is a point where the conclusion becomes subjective and the argument should end then. Does the OP have to engage with any arguments? I agree it's not required but it can help the idea if OP needs to bring some clarity to their suggestion.

Maybe it’s just me, but I would think if an idea was so good that it catches a Devs eye - they would reach out to the person suggesting it if they had any questions.

I just find it hard to believe they would read through the entire thread, hoping to see their question asked/answered somewhere.

 

In my little brain, I believe it all comes down to acceptance.  People come up with suggestions, and just have to have the approval of everyone.  They NEED people to tell them how great the idea is, even though we are all just random people.

Ive seen it time after time on here.  Someone makes a suggestion.  The minute someone doesn’t like it, they are accused of being abusive or attacking the person making the suggestion.

Once they are told no one attacked them, it ends with “I’ll just never make another suggestion about anything ever again!!!”

 

The truth is if you have a suggestion, make it and then move on.  Quit worrying about what other people think.

It is impossible to please everyone all of the time. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Ghost

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

30 minutes ago, arcane said:

Could a GM please post a PSA that anyone who disagrees with me is intellectually deficient? I love free speech btw. 

 

No.

 

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

No.

 

[Forager]

29 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

 

Then I fall back to the position that your proposition is ignorant and your complaints are unjustified.

 

Well, that settles it.

 

You meant this position, right?

 

"Complaining that people take part in process of refinement of ideas in a way you don't like?

 

-That- is pretty ignorant."

 

-Steampunkette

 

That's the one you didn't think was ironic...

 

 

 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

I sense declining excellence in this thread.

[battlewraith]

28 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

I found one!

COMPARE: 

TO: 

 

 

Thanks for digging that up, I do appreciate your efforts.

 

This example is someone calling for a tweak to an existing power from one powerset. The replies were all basically in agreement. 

Four years later, the devs make this change. Is the assumption that the devs read this post, liked the idea, and then put it on a to-do list that they got to four years later?

If that is the case, isn't it kind of significant that that is the turnaround rate for something that is a tweak of an existing feature?

 

The guy that made the initial post, Disruptor, last visited in July of 2023. So unless they are playing on another account, they didn't even see the change.

So for me this goes back to the complaint about this subforum. You're hitting the lottery if a "good" suggestion gets noticed, then there is a considerable wait for anything to happen. So why then is there this entrenched expectation that people need to submit a dissertation to other players who have no real say on the matter anyway?

If you renamed it "speculative pvp" or something at least people dropping in for the first time would know what to expect and understand why people post there.

[arcane]

8 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Thanks for digging that up, I do appreciate your efforts.

 

This example is someone calling for a tweak to an existing power from one powerset. The replies were all basically in agreement. 

Four years later, the devs make this change. Is the assumption that the devs read this post, liked the idea, and then put it on a to-do list that they got to four years later?

If that is the case, isn't it kind of significant that that is the turnaround rate for something that is a tweak of an existing feature?

 

The guy that made the initial post, Disruptor, last visited in July of 2023. So unless they are playing on another account, they didn't even see the change.

So for me this goes back to the complaint about this subforum. You're hitting the lottery if a "good" suggestion gets noticed, then there is a considerable wait for anything to happen. So why then is there this entrenched expectation that people need to submit a dissertation to other players who have no real say on the matter anyway?

If you renamed it "speculative pvp" or something at least people dropping in for the first time would know what to expect and understand why people post there.

Dude there’s an insane bug where an entire AT is able to skip all of its attack animations if you type in a couple of slash commands. And the nefarious poster that is orchestrating the entire development team from this subforum can’t get them to tweak shit, for years. You are not being victimized by the idea police; the devs are just slow as shit. I would be too for no pay.

Edited 17 hours ago by arcane

[ZacKing]

On 7/17/2025 at 12:54 PM, Forager said:

You can like or dislike an idea, but if you can't think of a way to improve upon an idea and don't want to try, you should not be part of the discussion.

 

Yeah no, that's not how suggestions and feeback works.  

[battlewraith]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

Dude there’s an insane bug where an entire AT is able to skip all of its attack animations if you type in a couple of slash commands. And the nefarious poster that is orchestrating the entire development team from this subforum can’t get them to tweak shit, for years. You are not being victimized by the idea police; the devs are just slow as shit. I would be too for no pay.

Duuuude are you talking about the changeling thing? That thing you were ranting about on the Kheldian forums and demanded that some of these unpaid devs get canned over? Where you insinuated that some players in shadowy circles were keeping the matter from being dealt with. This issue haunts you to the point of raw fury, but you have zero empathy for the concerns of other people.

 

Remember--we are not punished for our anger. We are punished by our anger. 

I'm also winking because I heard that's a cool thing to do 😉

[JasperStone]

On 7/17/2025 at 12:54 PM, Forager said:

This subforum has earned a reputation for being a shit place to post ideas. It is suffering from an artificial, user imposed sanction on interesting or productive conversation.

 

Can we get a dev or mod opinion on any of these points? It would go a long way to fostering discussion here.

 

1. The dev's time and ability is an uninteresting and unhelpful talking point that comes up in a ridiculous number of threads. The people who cite it rarely have any idea what they're talking about and use it as a catch all way to "vote" no.

 

2. We are not voting. Posters will often reply something akin to "I'm ok with it..." or "it's a no..." like they're voting. The difference between voting no and saying what you don't like about an idea is subtle, but important for discussion.

 

3. Shooting down ideas is just not a thing. The only person who should be shooting down ideas is the person paying for them. Conversations with naysayers are short, unproductive and not very fun. You can like or dislike an idea, but if you can't think of a way to improve upon an idea and don't want to try, you should not be part of the discussion.

 

There's a handful of very confused posters that don't understand these things and they are ruining conversations and discouraging people from posting their ideas. I don't know that they'll necessarily understand any of this, but a tidy mod opinion on it couldn't hurt. If the ideas flow freely, you're more likely to hear a good one.

Guidelines 1, 2, and 3.

You are telling us what to say and what not to say.

 

 

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Duuuude are you talking about the changeling thing? That thing you were ranting about on the Kheldian forums and demanded that some of these unpaid devs get canned over? Where you insinuated that some players in shadowy circles were keeping the matter from being dealt with. This issue haunts you to the point of raw fury, but you have zero empathy for the concerns of other people.

 

Remember--we are not punished for our anger. We are punished by our anger. 

I'm also winking because I heard that's a cool thing to do 😉

I’m… pointing out another example of something that is taking forever to change, essentially trying to empathize with you. Guessing you missed that since you said all this irrelevant shit. 

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, battlewraith said:

I'd like to see an example of a thread in the suggestions forum that was a success. Someone showed up with a full blown feasibility study of an idea, it survived the review of the forum regulars that hang out here, and then it went on to be somehow implemented in the game. 

 

Looking at the success rate of posts , imo, says a lot about the legitimacy of this "process". 

 

 

The success rate does not include the suggestion being put live. They ane under no obligation to put every great suggestion in game. They don’t have the manpower for that. It’s not a paid dev team. That’s an unrealistic expectation.

 

If that’s what we are counting as success of a suggestion then we might as well just say now that 99% of them will fail. 
 

Want to reverse that, then maybe we suggest how the team can get more volunteers?

Edited 16 hours ago by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

4 hours ago, Ghost said:

Who takes responsibility for turning it into something tedious?

 

Post your suggestion and then move on.  Don’t get involved in the back and forth.

If it’s a good suggestion, I’m sure it will be taken into consideration.  If it’s bad, it will most likely be ignored.

The feeling of tediousness and being beaten down comes with trying to go back and forth with people who don’t like the idea.  Why do that?

also this is a very very good point. If you think your suggestion is solid gold with no flaws (it usually isn’t) just post and move on.

 

neither you or the people responding to your post have zero ability to decide if a change is made or not

 

the devs had said this repeatedly in the forums and in closed and open beta. Post it and if they like it they’ll implement it . . . Sometimes in the far future.

 

if the devs don’t think it’ll be good for the game then it won’t go in no matter whatever the back and forth is.

[Super Atom]

I find it easiest when someone disagrees with you, to call them a plethora of names and call them a rudra alt

 

Just break every rule on this website, it's really fast and easy to do

[battlewraith]

2 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

The success rate does not include the suggestion being put live. They ane under no obligation to put every great suggestion in game. They don’t have the manpower for that. It’s not a paid dev team. That’s an unrealistic expectation.

 

If that’s what we are counting as success of a suggestion then we might as well just say now that 99% of them will fail. 
 

Want to reverse that, then maybe we suggest how the team can get more volunteers?

 

If you have a situation where 99% of the suggestions will fail and the ones that don't take years to implement--what is the purpose of the forum?

Does the benefit it brings to the development team outweigh the aggravation of people who think they might be heard but instead get thrown into the feasibility shredder?

 

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

I went to look and decided to start at the very end of the list, thinking that maybe something discussed long ago had filtered it's way up.  When I saw that we had 381 pages of suggestion topics, I gave up that endeavor.   However, allow me to flip the question on the group and ask you to take a look at the list of changes made in Issues 26, 27, and 28. (https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Issues)  I think you will find in those lists things that have been requested by players over the last few years, as well as things no one asked for.

 

But I've been giving this some thought and maybe there could be a "Brainstorm" subforum.  Under traditional brainstorm rules you just state an idea with no commentary or critique.  That may not be feasible with our forum tech because it would have to automatically lock the thread after the first post.  No edits, no comments, no emojis.  

I think this is an excellent idea!

[tidge]

Some more evidence that suggestions take time to be considered and implemented: