Dark Miasma - Tar Patch thoughts

[Renatos1023]

Recently hit 50 on my /Dark Corr. This is like my dozenth rodeo with Dark Miasma - both on Def and Corr. I also have a lot of other Defs/Corrs that are in their veteran levels. But Tar Patch has really been a thorn in my side with its non-comparable, relatively bad numbers.

 

**I wholly acknowledge that Dark Miasma does not need a buff, it is fantabulous (I also don't count the change to Black Hole as a buff because who needs a one-second pull-in power - that shit is still skippable).**

 

However, the cast time on Tar Patch (TP) and its longer recharge is kind of ridiculous. Lets be honest, Sleet and Freezing Rain (FR) are TP on steroids. I know we're not 'supposed to' compare powers in a 1-v-1 from different sets, but Sleet and FR are vastly superior simply due to the fact that they come with -def. When you are min-maxing I can see that Dark falls short in this area.

 

These are the numbers from Mids:

1. Cast times:

       a. Sleet and FR: 2.03s according to Mids. (WIN)

       b. TP: 3.1s  (LOSE)

2. Debuffs:

       a. Sleet and FR: -22.5% def, and -22.5% res  (WIN)

       b. TP: -30% res  (LOSE)

3. Recharge:

       a. Sleet and FR: 60 secs  (WIN)

       b. TP: 90 secs  (LOSE)

4. Endurance Cost:

       a.  Sleet and FR: 18.2  (LOSE)

       b. TP: 7.8  (WIN)

 

Sleet and Freezing Rain are the winners (honestly they are probably my favorite powers in the game) -- they activate 33% quicker, they recharge 33% quicker, and they have a huge chunk of -def. I mean, sometimes on my Dark Miasma characters I have trouble getting Tar Patch out before most of the mob is dead. A 3.1 sec activation is ridiculous for the numbers that it puts out. At minimum please reduce this number.

 

My suggestion:

1. Tar Patch should have a 2.03 sec cast, like FR and Sleet. It should also have the 60 second recharge. I'm fine with a small endurance cost increase in the power, say 13. This means it doesn't do anything more than it currently does its just more efficient (but still doesn't have the -def of FR and Sleet, which make them superior IMO).

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Renatos1023 said:

These are the numbers from Mids:

1. Cast times:

       a. Sleet and FR: 2.03s according to Mids. (WIN)

       b. TP: 3.1s  (LOSE)

2. Debuffs:

       a. Sleet and FR: -22.5% def, and -22.5% res  (WIN)

       b. TP: -30% res  (LOSE)

3. Recharge:

       a. Sleet and FR: 60 secs  (WIN)

       b. TP: 90 secs  (LOSE)

4. Endurance Cost:

       a.  Sleet and FR: 18.2  (LOSE)

       b. TP: 7.8  (WIN)

Different durations too, right?

[Troo]

Maybe you have a point.

Lets assume Tar Patch gets a tweak, what trade off would you be willing to sacrifice for the improvement?

Would a reduction in Twilight Grasp be worth it? That seems unrelated and extreme but somewhere they are going to find a trade off to offset an improvement. We might be able to get away with a small tweak but even dropping the recharge 15s might need an offset.

 

I'd like to point out on Corruptors at least, you are comparing a level 1 power to level 16 and level 28 powers.

• Lvl 1 : Tar Patch : Ranged (Location AoE), Target -Speed, -Res, -Fly
• Lvl 16 : Freezing Rain : Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Speed, -Recharge, -DEF, -Res
• Lvl 28 : Sleet : Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Speed, -Recharge, -DEF, -Res (All), Knockdown

 

One aspect you didn't include is the duration of the powers. The longer duration is very nice for harder targets and extended fights.

• Tar Patch : Duration 45s
• Freezing Rain : Duration 30s
• Sleet : Duration 30s

The relationship between Duration and Recharge allows a player to stack Tar Patches. I can stack TP for 17-20s pre-Incarnates.

I think Freezing Rain doesn't stack it 'replaces the effect' while Sleet's debuffs are 'no stacking and new effect ignored'.

 

Also:

Spoiler

AoE Size
Tar Patch : 25 feet
Freezing Rain : 20 feet
Sleet : 20 feet

 

Range
Tar Patch : 90 feet
Freezing Rain : 60 feet
Sleet : 60 feet

 

There's a chance Tar Patch is over performing as a level one and so changes might come with more offsets than expected.

Edited 2 hours ago by Troo

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

Recently hit 50 on my /Dark Corr. This is like my dozenth rodeo with Dark Miasma - both on Def and Corr. I also have a lot of other Defs/Corrs that are in their veteran levels. But Tar Patch has really been a thorn in my side with its non-comparable, relatively bad numbers.

 

**I wholly acknowledge that Dark Miasma does not need a buff, it is fantabulous (I also don't count the change to Black Hole as a buff because who needs a one-second pull-in power - that shit is still skippable).**

 

However, the cast time on Tar Patch (TP) and its longer recharge is kind of ridiculous. Lets be honest, Sleet and Freezing Rain (FR) are TP on steroids. I know we're not 'supposed to' compare powers in a 1-v-1 from different sets, but Sleet and FR are vastly superior simply due to the fact that they come with -def. When you are min-maxing I can see that Dark falls short in this area.

 

These are the numbers from Mids:

1. Cast times:

       a. Sleet and FR: 2.03s according to Mids. (WIN)

       b. TP: 3.1s  (LOSE)

2. Debuffs:

       a. Sleet and FR: -22.5% def, and -22.5% res  (WIN)

       b. TP: -30% res  (LOSE)

3. Recharge:

       a. Sleet and FR: 60 secs  (WIN)

       b. TP: 90 secs  (LOSE)

4. Endurance Cost:

       a.  Sleet and FR: 18.2  (LOSE)

       b. TP: 7.8  (WIN)

 

Sleet and Freezing Rain are the winners (honestly they are probably my favorite powers in the game) -- they activate 33% quicker, they recharge 33% quicker, and they have a huge chunk of -def. I mean, sometimes on my Dark Miasma characters I have trouble getting Tar Patch out before most of the mob is dead. A 3.1 sec activation is ridiculous for the numbers that it puts out. At minimum please reduce this number.

 

My suggestion:

1. Tar Patch should have a 2.03 sec cast, like FR and Sleet. It should also have the 60 second recharge. I'm fine with a small endurance cost increase in the power, say 13. This means it doesn't do anything more than it currently does its just more efficient (but still doesn't have the -def of FR and Sleet, which make them superior IMO).

Some additional considerations:

 

Tar Patch:

Level available on a Corruptor: 1

Range: 90 feet

Recharge: 90 seconds

Duration: 45 seconds

Edit: Endurance: 7.8

Edit again: Radius: 25 feet

 

Sleet:

Level available on a Corruptor: 28

Range: 60 feet

Recharge: 60 seconds

Duration: 15 seconds*

Edit: Endurance: 18.2

Edit again: Radius: 20 feet

 

Freezing rain:

Level available on a Corruptor: 16

Range: 60 feet

Recharge: 60 seconds

Duration: 15 seconds*

Edit: Endurance: 18.2

Edit again: Radius: 20 feet

 

With minimal effort, Tar Patch can always be out and in effect because out of the box it has a 50% up time and the recharge can without effort be knocked down to 45 seconds for 100% up time. Freezing Rain and Sleet with their 25% up time out of the box? Not so much. Tar Patch can be grabbed immediately during character creation. Freezing Rain and Sleet? Not even. And Tar Patch can be thrown to catch enemies 50% farther away than Freezing Rain or Sleet. (Edit: And Tar Patch costs less than half the endurance cost of Sleet or Freezing Rain.) So your comparison is leaving a bit out.

 

Edit yet again: Huh. Game says Sleet and Freezing Rain last 30 seconds, whereas City of Data says 15 seconds. I think the game data is wrong. I just timed Sleet on my level 50 Elec'/Cold Corruptor, and it lasted 15 seconds.

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Rudra

[Rudra]

53 minutes ago, Troo said:

Maybe you have a point.

Lets assume Tar Patch gets a tweak, what trade off would you be willing to sacrifice for the improvement?

Would a reduction in Twilight Grasp be worth it? That seems unrelated and extreme but somewhere they are going to find a trade off to offset an improvement. We might be able to get away with a small tweak but even dropping the recharge 15s might need an offset.

 

I'd like to point out on Corruptors at least, you are comparing a level 1 power to level 16 and level 28 powers.

• Lvl 1 : Tar Patch : Ranged (Location AoE), Target -Speed, -Res, -Fly
• Lvl 16 : Freezing Rain : Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Speed, -Recharge, -DEF, -Res
• Lvl 28 : Sleet : Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Speed, -Recharge, -DEF, -Res (All), Knockdown

 

One aspect you didn't include is the duration of the powers. The longer duration is very nice for harder targets and extended fights.

• Tar Patch : Duration 45s
• Freezing Rain : Duration 30s
• Sleet : Duration 30s

The relationship between Duration and Recharge allows a player to stack Tar Patches. I can stack TP for 17-20s pre-Incarnates.

I think Freezing Rain doesn't stack it 'replaces the effect' while Sleet's debuffs are 'no stacking and new effect ignored'.

 

Also:

  Reveal hidden contents

AoE Size
Tar Patch : 25 feet
Freezing Rain : 20 feet
Sleet : 20 feet

 

Range
Tar Patch : 90 feet
Freezing Rain : 60 feet
Sleet : 60 feet

 

There's a chance Tar Patch is over performing as a level one and so changes might come with more offsets than expected.

Sorry, didn't get to your post until after was done making and editing mine.