Mag for dummies?

[dukedukes]

5 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

damn, do people still believe the xp component has a material impact?

If I see someone run ahead and solo a pack with confuse when the purpose of the team is to get xp it's not exactly a welcome sight. If confuse is used while the team is fighting the pack it's not a big deal at all, the non-linear xp falloff is forgiving enough.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Domination (dominator inherent) doubles the magnitude of (almost) all control powers. So a ST mag 3 hold becomes a mag 6 hold, etc.

 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssss... and no.

 

Domination activates a specially flagged second control in control powers.  That second control is usually the same magnitude, but not always.  World of Confusion, for example, has a base Mag 2 Confuse, and a Domination-enabled Mag 1 secondary Confuse.

 

The duration of the secondary control is also usually longer than the base duration of primary control, but, like World of Confusion's secondary Confuse, it can be shorter.

 

And some powers don't have the Domination flag for a secondary control.  Those are usually powers in which a control is a secondary effect, such as Boxing.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Andreah said:

I believe combat level difference between the caster and the target also plays a part.

 

The duration, not the magnitude.  Mag 3 is always Mag 3, even if the target is +53, but it'll only last a fraction of a second.

 

I haven't reviewed the new variable control mechanics yet, so the powers using that might display reduction in magnitude on +X foes, but I doubt it.  That's not how they were outlined as working, from what I've read.  They can scale up according to a pre-defined rule, but the rule didn't include level variances.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Does Overpower and Containment affect Mag in any way?

 

I have little idea how those things actually affect the game in a meaningful way. I suppose I should.. Overpower is weird because apparently it was always there but hidden, and then it appeared and then it seemed to go away and sometimes it shows up again

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, dukedukes said:

If I see someone run ahead and solo a pack with confuse when the purpose of the team is to get xp it's not exactly a welcome sight. If confuse is used while the team is fighting the pack it's not a big deal at all, the non-linear xp falloff is forgiving enough.

 

If a Troller or Dom is running ahead of a team with a Tank, I'd suggest something's gone a bit wrong  in that scenario

[Uun]

34 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Does Overpower and Containment affect Mag in any way?

 

I have little idea how those things actually affect the game in a meaningful way. I suppose I should.. Overpower is weird because apparently it was always there but hidden, and then it appeared and then it seemed to go away and sometimes it shows up again

Most controller status effects have a 20% chance for an additional 1 mag control. When this occurs, the "Overpower" graphic appears. The duration of the additional control is usually 2/3 or 3/4 of the base duration. Many of the AoE immobilizes and sleeps have a 50% chance to Overpower.

 

Containment causes controllers to do extra damage (usually double) to targets that are already held, immobilized, slept, stunned or terrorized. It has no effect on magnitude.

[Championess]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

If a Troller or Dom is running ahead of a team with a Tank, I'd suggest something's gone a bit wrong  in that scenario

 

My dom is the tank.

[Scarlet Shocker]

So... Break Frees

 

 

I'm guessing that they remove Mag from status effects affecting the PC, holds, immobs etc. I'm guessing the better tiers of those remove more but do we have data as to what their actual effects are. I've known for a long time that often I'll need more than one BF to release myself but I'm hazy aobut the actual levels they "fix"

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

If a Troller or Dom is running ahead of a team with a Tank, I'd suggest something's gone a bit wrong  in that scenario

 

Pft.  A well built, and well played, dominator or controller can solo team-sized spawns just as effectively as any other AT.  Tell the tank to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So... Break Frees

 

 

I'm guessing that they remove Mag from status effects affecting the PC, holds, immobs etc. I'm guessing the better tiers of those remove more but do we have data as to what their actual effects are. I've known for a long time that often I'll need more than one BF to release myself but I'm hazy aobut the actual levels they "fix"

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=inspirations.small.break_free

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=inspirations.medium.emerge

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=inspirations.large.escape

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=inspirations.super.liberate

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Pft.  A well built, and well played, dominator or controller can solo team-sized spawns just as effectively as any other AT.  Tell the tank to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

 

I agree. I just don't like making people look stupid in public.

 

Well... some people...

[aethereal]

18 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So... Break Frees

 

 

I'm guessing that they remove Mag from status effects affecting the PC, holds, immobs etc. I'm guessing the better tiers of those remove more but do we have data as to what their actual effects are. I've known for a long time that often I'll need more than one BF to release myself but I'm hazy aobut the actual levels they "fix"

 

They give you Mag 5+ protection from all status effects for a period of time depending on the size of the insp.  Luminara linked them for you.

 

It's certainly possible for the game to layer on enough of a status effect to overcome an insp, but in my experience, it's unusual for the game to throw a status effect on you that exceeds the protection of an insp, besides maybe knockback (and things like Ghost Widow's mega-hold).  What is an example of a situation in which you need more than one break-free?

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

They give you Mag 5+ protection from all status effects for a period of time

I should point out that mez protection isn't really its own thing.  It is just negative mag.

 

So you get hit with, say, Dominate.  You're now at mag 3 hold. Pop a break free and now you are at -2 mag hold (because 3 + -5 = -2)

[aethereal]

6 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

I should point out that mez protection isn't really its own thing.  It is just negative mag.

 

So you get hit with, say, Dominate.  You're now at mag 3 hold. Pop a break free and now you are at -2 mag hold (because 3 + -5 = -2)

 

Well, break frees give mag 10 protection from hold, but yes otherwise.

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

What is an example of a situation in which you need more than one break-free?

 

My God, man! you're asking me to recall a specific instance in almost 20 years of playing this game. Dammit, I'm a player, not an analyst. /em bones

 

Truthfully I don't recall - I just remember getting stuck and dying because the BF I popped wasn't effective. It's not a singular occurrence.

 

 

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

the BF I popped wasn't effective

 

That's what she said.

[Uun]

I've got mag -12.975 status protection on my Fire tank and I regularly get stunned when fighting Malta. If whatever you're fighting can stack enough mag, 1 BF may not be enough.

[Luminara]

38 minutes ago, Uun said:

1 BF may not be enough.

 

Also what she said.

 

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

I haven't reviewed the new variable control mechanics yet, so the powers using that might display reduction in magnitude on +X foes, but I doubt it.  That's not how they were outlined as working, from what I've read.  They can scale up according to a pre-defined rule, but the rule didn't include level variances.

It's pretty straightforward - if enhancements increase duration then magnitude is a fixed number and level differences affect duration, and if enhancements increase magnitude then duration is a fixed number and level differences affect magnitude.

Edited yesterday at 01:57 AM by macskull

[Auroxis]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

It's pretty straightforward - if enhancements increase duration then magnitude is a fixed number and level differences affect duration, and if enhancements increase magnitude then duration is a fixed number and level differences affect magnitude.

To give an applicable example:

 

Against even-cons, Aura of Insanity can CC Lieutenants by default, and you need one HO/D-Sync to CC bosses.

 

Against +3's, Aura of Insanity needs one HO/D-Sync to CC lieutenants, and you need ED-cap from HO/D-Sync to CC bosses.

[MoonSheep]

16 hours ago, Championess said:

Lots of rules for controls and they can be a fun way to manipulate a fight when you know the workings.  You're getting a lot of good info here though, even from @MoonSheep.

 

thanks, i’ve got to work hard to retain my spot as the 3rd best dominator on homecoming. being on the podium stops my hooves getting wet when it rains heavily

[Scarlet Shocker]

ok this is a slight diversion from the main topic but I'm getting a sense here that Doms may leverage Mag increases more?

 

I have very limited experience of doms and generally find them underwhelming. Am I missing something there?

[Championess]

5 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

ok this is a slight diversion from the main topic but I'm getting a sense here that Doms may leverage Mag increases more?

 

I have very limited experience of doms and generally find them underwhelming. Am I missing something there?

 

It's understandable.  The early leveling experience has dommies focusing on taking and using your controls along with knowing how to make good spot use of domination when you haven't had the chance to get it perma yet through IOs.

 

Prior to the power availabilty restructuring dommies didnt get access to their fun attacks until the 30's and the Epic pool powers have a huge impact into building a competitive dom.  So you're not getting access to a fun fleshed out assault barrage until your 40's which most new to the AT would find underwhelming to wait so long to become fun to play.

 

Dommies are an absolute animal in a lot of content endgame with complete builds being able to instantly lock down lots of targets and then fold them yourself.

[Neiska]

Reading this thread I've actually learned a good bit about how CC/Mag works. I have yet to actually make an AT dedicated to it, (mostly because I am a solo player and wasn't sure how fast/effective soloing as a controller or dominator would be.) But I do have a question for the CC big brains -

 

Lately I have been experimenting with CC on Masterminds, and my latest has been taking Oppressive Gloom from Soul Mastery - it's an Aura toggle with a Mag 2 Stun effect, and how I have it slotted will last 19.12 seconds. My question(s) is -

 

1. How often is it "applied" - meaning how fast does the Mag stack up?

2. Does Notoriety/difficulty (+0, +1, +2, +3, +4 etc) affect enemy protection, or is it always the same?

 

I'm just wondering how the math works out, going by this - 

 

 

Lets say I am soloing as a MM on +4/8 difficulty, and an Elite Boss has a 6 Protection. My gloom is Mag 2, so does it take effect after 3 "tics" (Mag 2 + Mag 2 + Mag 2 = 6) and if so for how long, does it count from the first application (the first Mag 2) or the one that "beats" its protection?

 

Napkin math here, but lets say it "tics" every second, so after 3 tics it applies, which if from the first "tic" is counted, it reduces the 19 second stun down to 16? 

 

Not sure if my numbers are right or if I am understanding it all correctly here, hence my question. My reason for taking Oppressive Gloom is it's another additional layer of quasi protection for pets. I'm not expecting to lock everything down like a dedicated controller might but reducing the number of attacks against pets are always a good thing in my book. Especially if its entirely passive and requires no power activation/spamming a power to do so, since it's a toggle.

 

Thanks bunches in advance

[Uun]

34 minutes ago, Neiska said:

1. How often is it "applied" - meaning how fast does the Mag stack up?

2. Does Notoriety/difficulty (+0, +1, +2, +3, +4 etc) affect enemy protection, or is it always the same?

Oppressive Gloom ticks every 2s, but its stacking is limited to 1 stack. This means that the magnitude doesn't increase and it only effects minions. Notoriety effects the duration, not the magnitude, due to the Purple Patch (powers are 65% effective against +3 foes, 48% effective against +4 foes, etc.).

 

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=epic.mastermind_soul_mastery.oppressive_gloom&at=mastermind

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch