Anything Skippable in the New Regen?

[Seed22]

On 8/18/2025 at 12:16 AM, bAss_ackwards said:

The only thing I've skipped was Reconstruction. I've made a ~45% S/L/F/C/E/N Defense build that works quite well and is a lot of fun to play!

No. Do not do this OP, any of this.

 

Regen is a recharge and Max HP set. Literally the most simple set to build and play imo in the game. Just go recharge and max HP and at most maybe skip fast healing and even then thats some regen res you're leaving on the table.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

 

I really think people have gotten entirely wrapped around the axle about regen debuff resistance.

 

I ran Bio armor, like...  a lot.  Here is the list of enemies that notably debuffed my regen and gave me a hard time because of it:

 

Run plenty of Bio in my time, but Regen is not the only aspect that Bio relies on...or perhaps to say, Regen is more dependent on debuff resistance for not having the same protections Bio does. 

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

Regeneration debuffs are just really quite rare! 

 

Perhaps, but by the same token, sappers are pretty rare too and yet people despise them. 😛

[aethereal]

40 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Run plenty of Bio in my time, but Regen is not the only aspect that Bio relies on...or perhaps to say, Regen is more dependent on debuff resistance for not having the same protections Bio does. 

 

Regen is far from singularly reliant on regeneration!  It has two heals, a meaningful layer of resistance, and of course a defense godmode.  While it will of course be significantly impaired if its regen is debuffed, it has other tools!  Also, I don't know how much people actually are following this advice, but I note that the big advocates for this set tend to also take Rune of Power, Melee Hybrid, Shadow Meld, or other additional panic buttons.

 

But, more relevantly, note that we're not talking about the difference between 95% regen debuff resistance and 0% regen debuff resistance.  We're talking about the difference between 95% and 75%, and only some of the time.  Like, this is such a tiny hole that has so many ways to handle it.

 

40 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

 

Perhaps, but by the same token, sappers are pretty rare too and yet people despise them. 😛

 

Okay, but you don't hear people saying, "Invulnerability is a useless armor set because it has a problem with Sappers it must be given end/recovery protection."

 

People don't say, "Devouring Earth Crystals basically entirely negate defense armor so you can't play defense armors."

 

Plenty of armors have toxic and psi holes that are clearly much more likely to come up than this RDR hole, and mostly people say, "It's not that big a deal, just counterplay it, don't obsess over closing these holes."

 

Like, if someone has been killed all the time because of regen debuffs and has come to the conclusion that they really want to play regen but their lived experience is that it's miserable due to not having the absolute highest level of regen debuff resistance theoretically possible in every part of the game, that's fair.  I just want to ask:  is that in fact what your experience is?  Do you have lots of experience with deaths due to regen debuffs?  Or is this getting wrapped around the axle on the forums?

 

Edited Thursday at 11:42 PM by aethereal

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, aethereal said:

Regen is far from singularly reliant on regeneration!  It has two heals, a meaningful layer of resistance, and of course a defense godmode.  While it will of course be significantly impaired if its regen is debuffed, it has other tools!  Also, I don't know how much people actually are following this advice, but I note that the big advocates for this set tend to also take Rune of Power, Melee Hybrid, Shadow Meld, or other additional panic buttons.

 

Healing is something Bio does on top of its regen AND resistance AND defense before we even get into its stance dancing allowing it to shift to be more protected at need.

4 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Like, this is such a tiny hole that has so many ways to handle it.

 

Again, sappers do not come up often, but when they do, you would really like to be resistant. Defense debuff does not come up regularly either and yet....

 

5 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Okay, but you don't hear people saying, "Invulnerability is a useless armor set because it has a problem with Sappers it must be given end/recovery protection."

 

Nor have I said Regen is useless if you don't take every bit of Regen Debuff Resistance. I prefer to minimize potential problems, particularly to the point where I don't have to think about them. Others have different thresholds for dealing with such things, and that is fine.

[aethereal]

19 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Healing is something Bio does on top of its regen AND resistance AND defense before we even get into its stance dancing allowing it to shift to be more protected at need.

 

But it has zero debuff resistance.  Again, you are talking about the difference between 75% resistance and 95% resistance, some-but-not-all-of-the-time.  If we were talking about actual damage resistance, we wouldn't even call 75% resistance a "hole."  People think that Shield has good DDR, and its DDR is usually around 75%.

 

I really want to know: do you actually have experience being killed due to regen debuffs?

[Erratic1]

Just now, aethereal said:

 

But it has zero debuff resistance.  Again, you are talking about the difference between 75% resistance and 95% resistance, some-but-not-all-of-the-time.  If we were talking about actual damage resistance, we wouldn't even call 75% resistance a "hole."  People think that Shield has good DDR, and its DDR is usually around 75%.

 

I really want to know: do you actually have experience being killed due to regen debuffs?

 

It has no Debuff resistance but relies for that on only two damage types, with resistance, healing, the ability to shift into Defensive stance, -=*AND*=- the ability to increases its Regeneration, which is an inherent offset to Regeneration being debuffed.

 

As for experience being killed due to regen debuffs, no I don't...I try to avoid that by taking what I can to keep from dying. Isn't that the point? 😛

[aethereal]

Okay, so here's what I'd like to say to people contemplating the new Regen:

 

The idea that Regen has a big problem with regeneration debuff resistance is based on nothing.  It's a giant game of forum telephone, where someone at some point said, "Super Reflexes has 95% DDR, so Regen should have 95% RDR," and other people picked that up and amplified it despite it never having been a significant problem with the set, until it became common wisdom.  Look, if you want to get Fast Healing, feel free, but you should be aware that if you have a character with Fast Healing or without, if you're not allowed to look at the powers screen or monitor combat attributes, you very likely will be literally unable to tell whether you have that power or not even if you play 10 hours against a wide variety of content.

 

The problem that Regeneration has -- both the original set and the revamped one -- is with damage.  Using only the powers in the set, it has weaker mitigation than most armor sets.  Spaghetti Betty and others have realized that you can plug this hole by essentially playing "Moment of Glory, Rune of Power, Hybrid Melee, and Barrier defense," and then having the other powers in Regeneration serve as an additional layer of mitigation on top of basically playing a maxed def or resistance character.  This is in fact powerful, because most sets have nowhere to go once they max their def or res, but the big virtue of regeneration is that it's a whole different layer of mitigation that stacks well with def/res.

 

However, if you don't continuously keep yourself in god mode with MoG + non-regen powers -- whether because that's not a style of play you enjoy or for concept reasons or whatever else -- you're going to struggle not with regeneration debuffs but with totally ordinary damage that is done not by 1% of the game but by 100% of enemies.  Not throwing power choices on mostly-useless powers leaves things open to take that Shadow Meld or Rune of Power that will help a lot more with your survivability than another 20% RDR.  If you don't want to take those, you should choose it based largely on whether you can usefully have it mule whichever or defense or resistance that you're chasing.  Or just take another attack power.

[Erratic1]

Sounds like the argument is being made one does not need Regeneration Debuff Resistance (for reasons or if you build in certain ways). As the purpose of Regeneration is healing damage faster than it is coming in, that then suggest there is some reachable effective Regeneration value which is sufficient to always live. So what is this value?

 

Resistance and Defense are mostly about increasing your effective Regeneration value--you take less damage over time and so your regeneration outpaces incoming damage. RDR is an offset to effects which directly lower your resistance. Is the game dripping in regeneration debuffs? Cant say I've ever truly noticed them, but as noted, no other powerset other than Regeneration is so focused on Regeneration by which to notice. You might as well ask a Resistance based character what their experience is as goes Defense debuffs--they don't care about such. But people always pooh-pooh the notion of Resistance based characters layering Defense because it can be stripped EVEN IF MOST THINGS IN THE GAME DON'T STRIP IT and so in most cases it would improve survivability and they would be no worse off (assuming they hadn't traded Resistance for Defense) for having the extra Defense.

 

If you are content with not maxing your RDR, that is of course your choice. I am not sure why, even if the times it makes a difference is only 1 time in 1000, some seem to think it is problematic for others to address that 1 time, especially not when most builds are not short on power slots and the power in question does more than provide RDR.

[lemming]

With my regen tanker, I've noted better survivability by maxing out my HP/sec and resistance is more worthwhile than defense since you actually want some hits.

When I have everything going at once, I'm at 350 hp/sec+ which mitigates a lot.    -regen I don't see as often, but slow effects are worse I find.

 

My regen Brute is a little more fragile, but I slotted differently and they never stay down even if taken out.   Similar with my Scrapper.

 

Generally, if I can pause damage for a second or two on occasion, I don't have an issue.  It's a bit more active compared to some of the other defense sets, and my attack set seems to do better if I have knockdowns available.  (Foot Stomp, Dragon's Tail, and Mass Levitate for some...)

[tidge]

20 hours ago, aethereal said:

Okay, so here's what I'd like to say to people contemplating the new Regen:

 

The idea that Regen has a big problem with regeneration debuff resistance is based on nothing.  It's a giant game of forum telephone, where someone at some point said, "Super Reflexes has 95% DDR, so Regen should have 95% RDR," 

 

Slow down there partner... why aren't you entertaining the idea of +50% Absorb for nuRegen?

[Spaghetti Betty]

On 8/21/2025 at 8:04 PM, aethereal said:

The problem that Regeneration has -- both the original set and the revamped one -- is with damage.  Using only the powers in the set, it has weaker mitigation than most armor sets.  Spaghetti Betty and others have realized that you can plug this hole by essentially playing "Moment of Glory, Rune of Power, Hybrid Melee, and Barrier defense," and then having the other powers in Regeneration serve as an additional layer of mitigation on top of basically playing a maxed def or resistance character.  This is in fact powerful, because most sets have nowhere to go once they max their def or res, but the big virtue of regeneration is that it's a whole different layer of mitigation that stacks well with def/res.

Finally, someone gets it!

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Finally, someone gets it!

 

Whoaaaaa now. They sorta get it.

 

On 8/21/2025 at 6:04 PM, aethereal said:

Spaghetti Betty and others have realized that you can plug this hole by essentially playing "Moment of Glory, Rune of Power, Hybrid Melee, and Barrier defense," and then having the other powers in Regeneration serve as an additional layer of mitigation on top of basically playing a maxed def or resistance character.

On 8/21/2025 at 6:04 PM, aethereal said:

However, if you don't continuously keep yourself in god mode with MoG + non-regen powers -- whether because that's not a style of play you enjoy or for concept reasons or whatever else -- you're going to struggle not with regeneration debuffs but with totally ordinary damage that is done not by 1% of the game but by 100% of enemies.

 

Folks use a rotation of powers outside Regeneration for +4/8 and the hardest content, mostly solo. 

For regular game play and especially while teaming it is simply not necessary. The old set with 2 heals and Instant Healing, it was rare to use all three in regular content. On big, league oriented content it is laughable how little of the tool box is used. Regeneration gobbles up team buffs in a way that some other armors don't.

 

Moment of Glory (15s), Instant Healing (90s), Rune of Protection (60s), Shadow Meld (15s), Demonic Aura (60s) can all be had before Incarnates. Other ATs can also take advantage of similar tactics. 

I also use Darkest Night (-ToHit/-Dam) on Brutes with the bonus of keeping things aggro'd.

[aethereal]

7 hours ago, Troo said:

Folks use a rotation of powers outside Regeneration for +4/8 and the hardest content, mostly solo. 

For regular game play and especially while teaming it is simply not necessary.

 

I mean, sure.  Anyone can play +0/x1 while taking only one power from their armor set, as always.  Or if you play in 8-man teams against most content in the game you can do literally whatever and be fine (including staying by the door).  And yes, if you're in a league so you have maxed def and probably also resist you again have this layer of additional mitigation that other armors don't, just like if you rotate god mode on yourself.

[Troo]

4 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

I mean, sure.  Anyone can play +0/x1 while taking only one power from their armor set, as always.  Or if you play in 8-man teams against most content in the game you can do literally whatever and be fine (including staying by the door).  And yes, if you're in a league so you have maxed def and probably also resist you again have this layer of additional mitigation that other armors don't, just like if you rotate god mode on yourself.

 

That's fair.

Just don't want to mislead anyone not doing +4/8.