DFB Channel!

[Solarverse]

I think we as players need to try harder to not get our feathers ruffled. Everyone wants to make the game better because we all love this game. This is why most of us kept in touch on Facebook even after all these years. We are a tight knit community. Let's stop treating each other like we are on forums, and start treating one another like we are face to face, at our own private community meet a d greet.  :)

 

And I _honestly_ think that trying to do the things you are tyring to do is directly harmful to the community, so I wi fight the idea.

 

I would say all of these things the same way to you or anyone, I talk to my spouse, bosses, friends and enemies all with the same openess about what I think about what they said.

 

This constant refrain of 'put these players here and those players there' goes directly against the whole idea of CoH IMO.

We have sidekicking and all of the other tools so that all levels and all players can play together all the time.

 

Separating the community into smaller chunks for such 'silly' reasons as not liking the fact some players don't read or are 'lazy' does nothing to further the creation of a larger community, it simply divides it into chunks for those poeple that like to be in the 'right' box.

 

This idea like many of the others I see proposed is _also_ trying to change human nature through code.

I see this everyday in RL in addition to game forums.

From my PoV, just another form of control to force players to follow a pre-determined narrative rather than finding thier own path.

 

This is me, raw and unfiltered, exactly as if you were here sharing my puff-puff.

 

:)

 

Justice disagreed with me too. He even convinced me to see his alternate suggestion as the better idea. So now I agree with him. It's all good in the Kings Row Hood.

 

Also, I dont see this type of an idea as a way to separate folks. It's just a chat tab, a other tool to help people achieve their goals. I play DFB to level 15 on every character. The chat tab would have helped me as well. You seem to take me like I hate DFB. I run DFB almost daily, since I am an Altaholic. So no, this tool would have helped me when forming DFB teams, AND it would have helped me when forming TF's.

 

And before somebody tries to call me out and say that I do not play DFB, if you play on Excelzior, you have probably seen Heavy Metal run DFB with you a few times. I have re-rolled him 4 times and I have leveled to 15 on him using DFB each time.

 

So no, I felt like it would be a useful tool, not a way to separate them from us. I do both.

[GlacialGadgeteer]

The freaking out about "quarantine" and "elitism" is unreal. Additional channels just give players further options to customize the chat boxes based on what is relevant to them while playing. No channel blocks anyone out from posting whatever they want.

 

If I'm not specifically online to level a char 1-20, I'm generally looking for any TF, iTF, Ouro, story arcs, etc I haven't done on any of my characters - literally anything that isn't DFB. You could tell me to go look for a half dozen or more different specific channels made by other players and hope anyone not running DFB is aware to post there, but that makes the LFG channel the DFB channel. On the flip side, I'd be glad to roll up a new char and just join a DFB channel to home in on those groups for 20 levels, occasionally checking an LFG tab for Posi 1/2 TFs.

 

In support of adding a DFB channel, when I look at LFG, I'm looking for anything my current char or any alt might need or be interested in. I'll message team leaders and ask if I have time to switch characters or sides to run X content with Y character. There is never a point where I see DFB and go, "Oh wait! Hold that spot! I've got a character who needs to run that!" because a group is guaranteed to be running at all times and that makes it pretty unique next to literally all other content in the game.

 

Why do people think adding the option to an already existing system to gather up all DFB requests is bad? People are treating this idea like a sin of segregation rather than a matter of organization and convenience. Numbers in this thread show DFB is popular enough that it would benefit from having its own channel. Unlike other content (and even channels like Help) in the game, DFB does not suffer from not reaching a larger pool of players not already specifically looking for DFB.

 

*[EDIT]* I think, in a perfect world, /dfb would be its own channel on every server, joined by default for every char made in the default chat tab like /Broadcast, /Help, and LFG. New players (who wouldn't know what DFB was to begin with) would still see them by default with exactly as much explanation as they have now through LFG. People who are done running DFB on their chars or prefer DFB in a separate chat tab get to opt out per character when they're done.

[jubakumbi]

One possible solution would allow for each of us to check a level range to see texts from in the LFG channel. Then each individual could tailor the channel to their needs. If I'm on a 50 the DFB chatter isn't very relevant, and incarnate chatter doesn't do much for 20s.

 

This is a start for a solution - a more complex mute function, so that the people who feel impacted have options, rather than trying to make everyone else conform to some 'community standard'.

 

Me, I turn off pretty much all chat unless I am actively looking for a group, in which case I am glad that's all in one channel...

 

I realize we only have the power to create more channels, but I do not see the playerbase getting much bigger, it's already shrinking as are the DFB calls with it based on the news and posts here.

 

People felt like 'DFB spam' 'ruined' LFG on Live as well...I was not one of them...from my PoV it is WAI...if half the tells are for DFB, I just don't see a problem, I see that half the tell are about DFB, so, lots of people are running DFB, great...

 

A way to filter or mute things would be welcome though, we have always wanted a more robust LFG system, perhaps the chat server is easier to hack than the game...

[jubakumbi]

Why do people think adding the option to an already existing system to gather up all DFB requests is bad? People are treating this idea like a sin of segregation rather than a matter of organization and convenience. Numbers in this thread show DFB is popular enough that it would benefit from having its own channel. Unlike other content (and even channels like Help) in the game, DFB does not suffer from not reaching a larger pool of players not already specifically looking for DFB.

 

*[EDIT]* I think, in a perfect world, /dfb would be its own channel on every server, joined by default for every char made in the default chat tab like /Broadcast, /Help, and LFG. New players (who wouldn't know what DFB was to begin with) would still see them by default with exactly as much explanation as they have now through LFG. People who are done running DFB on their chars or prefer DFB in a separate chat tab get to opt out per character when they're done.

 

To answer your question, simply because some of use and view chat boxes differently. What you find as organization, I see as separating in niche groups. Just that simple, we don't see it the same way, as having the same impact. I am obviously a minority on this one, it seems.

 

Having a New Character Tab with /Help and /DFB, IMO, would end up with spamming LFG and DFB and result in lots of unneeded drama, based on previous MMO and human experience.  WOuld not bother me one bit if it got implemented, I just honestly don't think it will work.

 

Humans cannot be wrangled by code.

Given options they can control, the will configure thier virtual realities to thier liking.

IME.

[justicebeliever]

Why do people think adding the option to an already existing system to gather up all DFB requests is bad? People are treating this idea like a sin of segregation rather than a matter of organization and convenience. Numbers in this thread show DFB is popular enough that it would benefit from having its own channel. Unlike other content (and even channels like Help) in the game, DFB does not suffer from not reaching a larger pool of players not already specifically looking for DFB.

 

*[EDIT]* I think, in a perfect world, /dfb would be its own channel on every server, joined by default for every char made in the default chat tab like /Broadcast, /Help, and LFG. New players (who wouldn't know what DFB was to begin with) would still see them by default with exactly as much explanation as they have now through LFG. People who are done running DFB on their chars or prefer DFB in a separate chat tab get to opt out per character when they're done.

 

To answer your question, simply because some of use and view chat boxes differently. What you find as organization, I see as separating in niche groups. Just that simple, we don't see it the same way, as having the same impact. I am obviously a minority on this one, it seems.

 

Having a New Character Tab with /Help and /DFB, IMO, would end up with spamming LFG and DFB and result in lots of unneeded drama, based on previous MMO and human experience.  WOuld not bother me one bit if it got implemented, I just honestly don't think it will work.

 

Humans cannot be wrangled by code.

Given options they can control, the will configure thier virtual realities to thier liking.

IME.

 

Again, this would not be separating people...just chats.

 

I would post in both a DFB and separate LFG tab if they are there.  Me the person, in both groups.  These are just tools to help you find teams.  There is no segregating.  I would gravitate toward the channel that helps me form the team I want.  And again, right now, this isn't a problem for DFB, because they are 4:1 over any other request group (if you separate people looking for TF/Trial, and people looking to just run missions, and people just looking to team up with someone else, and people wanting to do specific types of missions like Radio/Newspaper).  So the traffic with DFB is harder to compete with.

 

Again, I think you are reading way too much into what people are saying here.  This IS NOT a thread asking to do away with DFB (I know, those threads are out there), it's asking to help manage chats in a way that helps everyone win.

 

Not everything is a DFB plot...though this is likely a Nemesis plot!

[Solarverse]

Why do people think adding the option to an already existing system to gather up all DFB requests is bad? People are treating this idea like a sin of segregation rather than a matter of organization and convenience. Numbers in this thread show DFB is popular enough that it would benefit from having its own channel. Unlike other content (and even channels like Help) in the game, DFB does not suffer from not reaching a larger pool of players not already specifically looking for DFB.

 

*[EDIT]* I think, in a perfect world, /dfb would be its own channel on every server, joined by default for every char made in the default chat tab like /Broadcast, /Help, and LFG. New players (who wouldn't know what DFB was to begin with) would still see them by default with exactly as much explanation as they have now through LFG. People who are done running DFB on their chars or prefer DFB in a separate chat tab get to opt out per character when they're done.

 

To answer your question, simply because some of use and view chat boxes differently. What you find as organization, I see as separating in niche groups. Just that simple, we don't see it the same way, as having the same impact. I am obviously a minority on this one, it seems.

 

Having a New Character Tab with /Help and /DFB, IMO, would end up with spamming LFG and DFB and result in lots of unneeded drama, based on previous MMO and human experience.  WOuld not bother me one bit if it got implemented, I just honestly don't think it will work.

 

Humans cannot be wrangled by code.

Given options they can control, the will configure thier virtual realities to thier liking.

IME.

 

Not everything is a DFB plot...though this is likely a Nemesis plot!

 

"And I would have gotten away with it too, had it not been for those nosey kids!"

[Machariel]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread turn into a absolute sh--show faster than this one.  "Hey, maybe it would be a good idea to have a dedicated DFB channel" turned into psychoanalysis and accusations of elitism in the first few posts. 

[THEDarkTyger]

1. I think DFB recruiters tend to spam a bit more than others. That is only my opinion.

 

No, it's not your opinion. Because this issue isn't a matter of opinion. It's something objectively verifiable. Opinions are things like "I like chocolate" and "Blue is my favorite color". Things that are purely subjective. You don't get to close off discussion when you state incorrect facts just by saying "That's just my opinion!" People try to do it all the time, and it's a major pet peeve of mine.

[justicebeliever]

1. I think DFB recruiters tend to spam a bit more than others. That is only my opinion.

 

No, it's not your opinion. Because this issue isn't a matter of opinion. It's something objectively verifiable. Opinions are things like "I like chocolate" and "Blue is my favorite color". Things that are purely subjective. You don't get to close off discussion when you state incorrect facts just by saying "That's just my opinion!" People try to do it all the time, and it's a major pet peeve of mine.

 

DarkTyger - I know you and Solarverse don’t see eye to eye, but honestly until you have verifiable facts in hand, you can make a hypothesis (opinion).  Once you have data, they you draw a conclusion based on facts...so I say this politely...do you have data?  If so, please share.  I do not or I would agree or disagree, but my hypothesis would be they do not.  But that too is an opinion.

[justicebeliever]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread turn into a absolute sh--show faster than this one.  "Hey, maybe it would be a good idea to have a dedicated DFB channel" turned into psychoanalysis and accusations of elitism in the first few posts.

 

Oh I have seen worse...lookup most any other thread on DFB or thoughts on IP.

 

I am as guilty of this as most, but most posters get even more entrenched about their ideas the more they are criticized.  Kudos to Solarverse for pivoting directions and not digging in.

[jubakumbi]

IMO everything on this forum is nothing more than opinions we have while trapped within our own personal delusions, about data points many of which we will never get to see.

 

IMO, the underlying reason for this change is another attempt to 'not have to listen to the DFB spam', NOT an attempt to 'help' the people playing DFB.

 

I realize the OP has stated that is not the intent.

I still think it is the underlying impetus...to categorize those players that other want to avoid, to put everyone into the correct 'box'...

This is not a dig at the OP, at all, I just really think if people look inward at why they try to do things, they often find the reason really is to control others to conform to thier delusion.

 

And the real 'why' of things is all that really interests me these days, to look inward and ask oneself 'why?'.

People have told me in person I am like a 'ballistic missle' when asking questions...

 

My MMO forum and RL experiences make me think as soon as someone says they are trying to 'help', they are trying to control the narrative.

Call me a cranky old parasitic gamer, but I have to base my outlook on the data I have at hand, just like everyone else.

 

None of this changes the fact I am just one voice in the malestrom and no one has to read anything I type in a voice other than a ranting Daffy Duck if they so choose, much less agree with my outlook...peer pressure and peer acceptance really mean nothing to me in this case...I don't care if some people that read this "don't like me", it will not alter my life other than to give me a good story to tell friends.

[THEDarkTyger]

IMO everything on this forum is nothing more than opinions we have while trapped within our own personal delusions, about data points many of which we will never get to see.

 

IMO, the underlying reason for this change is another attempt to 'not have to listen to the DFB spam', NOT an attempt to 'help' the people playing DFB.

 

I realize the OP has stated that is not the intent.

 

I agree, and his denial of it is thin. It's NOT going to make it easier to find DFB groups. The only possible "benefit" is to funnel group types he doesn't approve of out of the LFG channel.

[justicebeliever]

 

I agree, and his denial of it is thin. It's NOT going to make it easier to find DFB groups. The only possible "benefit" is to funnel group types he doesn't approve of out of the LFG channel.

 

DarkTyger - again, as I said in the other thread, I think you are letting your past experiences with the OP color your opinions here.  The OP, based on feedback, as pivoted to build a Global Channel for his server for TF/Trials/Radio Missions/etc.  So he is choosing to do the work on his end to make it easier for him to find groups and not try to change current DFB Behavior at all...So whatever his intent was, he's clearly not doing what you suggest he is doing now.

[Robotech_Master]

I can't say I've ever needed to use a channel to find a DFB myself. I just go into the entrance of the Atlas Park sewer and there they all are.

[justicebeliever]

IMO everything on this forum is nothing more than opinions we have while trapped within our own personal delusions, about data points many of which we will never get to see.

I'm sure it's just exaggeration on your part, but I see all kinds of conversations on the forums - bug reports, build requests, asking advice, etc

 

IMO, the underlying reason for this change is another attempt to 'not have to listen to the DFB spam', NOT an attempt to 'help' the people playing DFB.

 

I realize the OP has stated that is not the intent.

I still think it is the underlying impetus...to categorize those players that other want to avoid, to put everyone into the correct 'box'...

 

2 thoughts here -

1.) It's not about categorizing PEOPLE, just chats.  He's not asking people who play DFB to go somewhere else, but just to have a separate space for them to post LFG requests for DFB.  The OP says he does DFB...It's not about people, it's about one specific behavior.  And he's not suggesting at all the behavior is wrong or needs to go away, but it DOES impact other players abilities to find teams...

 

 

2.) Rather than overly psychoanalyzing the OP's intent - which is virtually impossible over forums, let's focus on the suggestion I've made here that the OP is on board with:

If a 2nd DFB tab is created systemically, and tied to a new Server Channel for DFB (Server Channels automatically include everyone on that server - no enrollment need), then many players who do DFB will jump into this new tab to post DFB requests.  And those who don't pay attention or don't care, when posting in LFG, would be, gently I hope, reminded that there is a new tab for DFB.  After a couple of weeks, it becomes self managed.  Posting in LFG won't work for them anymore because people in that channel aren't doing DFB so they won't get takers.  Posting in the DFB channel is even more productive than ever because there is no competing traffic - they go from being 45% of a channel to 95% of a channel...That does help them.  The same is true for everyone else looking to do something other than DFB - they get 95% of a channel, where previously they had 45%.

 

Sometimes, a solution, despite it's original intent, can be a win/win...

[Solarverse]

 

DarkTyger - again, as I said in the other thread, I think you are letting your past experiences with the OP color your opinions here.  The OP, based on feedback, as pivoted to build a Global Channel for his server for TF/Trials/Radio Missions/etc.  So he is choosing to do the work on his end to make it easier for him to find groups and not try to change current DFB Behavior at all...So whatever his intent was, he's clearly not doing what you suggest he is doing now.

 

On top of this, much to my delight, I discovered that my server already has a TF channel, has over 150 members and I am now a member of it. The DFB channel has been shut down with a message as to why, and a request for the people who have joined to leave the channel.

 

I have given my reasons for doing what I did, however, I knew there would be some who would assume my intentions were something other than face value. Sorry, but I have never been one to pay people mind for that, it is human nature to assume the worst. I control me, not what others think of me, so I care not. You either believe me, or you do not believe me, affects me no differently either way.

 

This is the risk you take when you come up with ideas or bring forth new options or opinions or anything at all that can change the game in any way at all. I understood the risks of such a move before making it.

 

I think sometimes it is easier to accept that somebody has selfish intentions than it is to believe that somebody wants to make things better for everyone. However, you are right about one thing, this time my intentions were selfish. It would have made it easier and more efficient for me to form DFB groups and TF groups had the idea worked. It just so happens that everyone else on the server would have been able to do the same using the same tools.  ;D

 

 

[jubakumbi]

Sometimes, a solution, despite it's original intent, can be a win/win...

 

As I have typed, _intent_, the 'why?' of things, is more important _to me_.

If something is done in this area that is a positive for the _majority_, awesome.

 

As for some other commentary on me exagerating, the bug reports, build requests and advice are all for a _game_.

A hobby, an escapist way to pass the time.

 

While relaxation and entertainment are important to the human psyche, the minutae of the inner workings of a particular game and how to play are, to me, not the stuff of human invention and progress that needs to be in the Smithsonian.

While it has meaning to a few memebers of our society, in the big picture...in the end, all of the stuff on this forum is just dust in the maelstrom, IMO.

 

Humans choose to add value and emotion to facts, it's just what we do, but that does not really make that data more or less important in the big picture, only to the few who share that delusion.

 

I am not in anyway against adding options to the way we are able to form groups.

Changes that separate the playerbase into smaller chunks to be properly labeled won't get my vote.

Separating out the people you don't want to see in chat _IS_ dviding the population, IME.

 

We fundamentally disagree and there is no data I have ever seen that condraicts it.

 

The moment on LIve people tried any of this, it just blew up the chat channels with the Hall Monitors telling players they are 'using chat wrong'...

This is all about puttin voices in boxes, IMO.

[justicebeliever]

Sometimes, a solution, despite it's original intent, can be a win/win...

I am not in anyway against adding options to the way we are able to form groups.

Changes that separate the playerbase into smaller chunks to be properly labeled won't get my vote.

Separating out the people you don't want to see in chat _IS_ dviding the population, IME.

 

We fundamentally disagree and there is no data I have ever seen that condraicts it.

 

I won't post back on this part, but you keep saying players/people.  The suggestion would put anyone in a box.  It just segments WHERE you go to post for WHAT?  Same as separating the Help and LFG channel...It doesn't segment people, it just segments posts.  If the change was implemented, I would be posting in both LFG and DFB, because I have been doing both.  I won't feel segment out as a person, just putting my chats where they have the most likely outcome of getting the kind of response I want.

 

It's fine if we agree to disagree, but I want to be clear, I, nor Solarverse in so far as I have seen, are trying to STOP DFB in ANY way...In fact we both play DFB.  So I analyze away my friend, but please be cautious in imputing motives that don't exist...

 

Regardless Jubakumbi, please live long and prosper, because I like having you on these forums...

[GM Fiddleback]

I'm going to go ahead and close this topic because I think everything useful has been said already and now we're just in an ever increasing spiral of argument.