page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] New Melee Set - Sonic Melee

[Midnight Mystique]

Just ran a quick check - as Kai Moon reported, attune is only a click on scrappers. On brutes and stalkers it is a toggle that basically reapplies the initial hit over and over again.  (to the point where my stalker can kill a boss with it from hide, then use the 3 stacks of assassin's focus it generates to get an autocrit from AS - pretty cool except for the end drain). 

[High_Beam]

26 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

It's a click now if you go on test.

I just came off test on the two Brutes I am testing, still a toggle (and dont have a problem with it being a toggle).

Edited Thursday at 10:58 PM by High_Beam
Took out a Redundant Line

[WindDemon21]

34 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

I just came off test on the two Brutes I am testing, still a toggle (and dont have a problem with it being a toggle).

Yeah i was testing on a scrapper, apparently it's still a toggle on tank/brutes ughh

[Captain Powerhouse]

The power is only working properly on Scrappers right now (Level of availability aside). Just did a fix to that so hopefully it will be in the overnight build, if those keep rolling out as they have been.

[Doc Spectre]

I just tested the click version of Attune on a Scrapper and it felt a lot less clunky to use than the toggle version. The visual representation is also much appreciated.

[Gobbledygook]

I won't have a chance to jump on yet, but I haven't seen mentioned yet.

What are the sfx like?

I have been in a lot of survived quite a few explosions or had crappy earplugs. Certain frequencies kill my head.

I don't play  any Sonic blast characters and will not play with one on a team.

 

[Sovera]

11 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

It's a click now if you go on test. It basically places a debuff/pseudopet on the target that does the dot and increases with sonic thrust/strident echo. Which is still terrible to have it locked to those powers only for obvious reasons. Not to mention it makes the set very awkward having to pick 5 single target attacks to maximize your ST damage. Then the rech/damage issue on the sleep attack, the cone wonkiness etc. The set is close but its just reallly funky as is atm. Strident echo still needs to be tier 2 on tankers as well. I'd still wish they'd fix it to be a toggle on you, that did some minor DOT that increased with any attack, even the aoes, obviously aoes would be a smaller damage increase than the single target, and still cap at two damage increases. Then it helps aoe, and is still not locked to just the tier 1/2 powers. But at the very least it should remain as tier 3 (unless the fix i mentioned above), and it should be be locked to just sonic thrust/strident echo.

 

I've been mentioning this as well. Stalkers/Scrappers have been getting good numbers (IMO, under 1:30) with pylons, but Brutes have been steady at 3 minutes on pylons. Which could just be my crummy builds too.

I've tried taking the T1 and the T2, procbombing both, then Attune and Earsplitter.

I've tried taking the T2, and Sandman's Whisper, proccing both, then Attune and Earsplitter. All 3 minutes with his version a good 20 second slower (3:13 where  the above got 2:55 on average).

 

Maybe taking all five ST powers is required so that Attune is booming with both T1 and T2 and then using Sandman's and Earsplitter, but I can't fit five ST attacks, nor do I even want to.

[robobl4de]

There's a big imo issue with Attune now for Stalkers where the dot damage instantly cancels Hide proc from the ATO. I used the following rotation on Pylon and various enemies: Attune > T1 > T2 > Assassin's Whisper (Hide ATO is slotted in this power), it triggers(I see Hidden green text) and it instantly gets cancelled(spent) by the Attune dmg tick, then i tested placate and that one works fine, doesn't get cancelled by Attune's damage.

Update #1: Not using Attune on pylon or various enemies i tested, the Hide ATO proc works as intended it doesn’t get cancelled instantly, this is a big mechanic issue for stalkers as it results in dps loss that needs to be addressed.

Update #2: I have also tested Attune without using T1 T2 for the dot, issue stays the same (1 dmg ticks still cancel the Hide from Hide ATO proc).

Edited Friday at 12:31 PM by robobl4de

[Championess]

I'm curious how the attune power interacts from a slotting perspective.  Should this be operating like a ST attack that I should be slotting dmg/end/acc where if I enhance the damage it gets boosted from the enhancing separate of the other attacks interacting with it?  Does slotting acc even matter, with it being a toggle it shouldn't have been missing, but now not being a toggle is it autohit?  Just curious if I should be slotting just damage IOs and thats all.

[Captain Powerhouse]

6 hours ago, robobl4de said:

There's a big imo issue with Attune now for Stalkers where the dot damage instantly cancels Hide proc from the ATO. I used the following rotation on Pylon and various enemies: Attune > T1 > T2 > Assassin's Whisper (Hide ATO is slotted in this power), it triggers(I see Hidden green text) and it instantly gets cancelled(spent) by the Attune dmg tick, then i tested placate and that one works fine, doesn't get cancelled by Attune's damage.

 

Thank you for the report, this is definitively not WAI. Will look into a fix later today.

[Sovera]

42 minutes ago, Championess said:

I'm curious how the attune power interacts from a slotting perspective.  Should this be operating like a ST attack that I should be slotting dmg/end/acc where if I enhance the damage it gets boosted from the enhancing separate of the other attacks interacting with it?  Does slotting acc even matter, with it being a toggle it shouldn't have been missing, but now not being a toggle is it autohit?  Just curious if I should be slotting just damage IOs and thats all.

 

Accuracy matters for both upfront and each DoT's tick, damage increases the DoT's damage, and encurance some since it's a toggle. Recharge is the only thing not needed since it recharges in 2 seconds.

 

If you find it behaves differently please report to the devs.

[WindDemon21]

9 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

I've been mentioning this as well. Stalkers/Scrappers have been getting good numbers (IMO, under 1:30) with pylons, but Brutes have been steady at 3 minutes on pylons. Which could just be my crummy builds too.

I've tried taking the T1 and the T2, procbombing both, then Attune and Earsplitter.

I've tried taking the T2, and Sandman's Whisper, proccing both, then Attune and Earsplitter. All 3 minutes with his version a good 20 second slower (3:13 where  the above got 2:55 on average).

 

Maybe taking all five ST powers is required so that Attune is booming with both T1 and T2 and then using Sandman's and Earsplitter, but I can't fit five ST attacks, nor do I even want to.

That's part of the problem. The tier 1/2 are, and should generally be a "get now to level and respec it out later for better damage" powers. They should NEVER be a requirement for a set's mechanic to work (yes there is dual blades but thats another issue). We learned this issue with opportunity on sentinels, so it still boggles my mind it was ever even implemented like this.

 

As it is now you do have to take all 5 powers to maximize the ST damage. and you use only attune and sonic thrust once for the whole duration of the single target kill, so ends up being really way too invested in slots and powers for two powers you basically don't even use, which again, it makes more sense for attune to just be more of a self toggle that adds more damage the more you use any sonic attack on the same enemy (similar to -resistance but instead of debuffing resistance increasing the damage your sonic powers do to the target). Then still the issue of sandman's whisper being on too short of a rech/damage value which is also odd, having 3 other attacks that are 6s or less, as well as the same issue with sonic clap. There is just so much wrong with the stats on the powers in this set, hopefully it's fixed before it goes live.

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 hours ago, Championess said:

I'm curious how the attune power interacts from a slotting perspective.  Should this be operating like a ST attack that I should be slotting dmg/end/acc where if I enhance the damage it gets boosted from the enhancing separate of the other attacks interacting with it?  Does slotting acc even matter, with it being a toggle it shouldn't have been missing, but now not being a toggle is it autohit?  Just curious if I should be slotting just damage IOs and thats all.

 

Attune is not Auto Hit. It requires a hit roll to apply the initial Attunement. The attune effect itself has an accuracy check every tick also for its damage. You might not see much need to slot it for recharge, but slotting it for accuracy might be highly desirable. 

An interesting aspect of this lingering DoT is that it reacts dynamically to buffs. This means any +dmg, or +tohit you get will boost the Attune DoT even if it was applied **before** you used Sound Booster or used that inspiration.

[Sovera]

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

That's part of the problem. The tier 1/2 are, and should generally be a "get now to level and respec it out later for better damage" powers. They should NEVER be a requirement for a set's mechanic to work (yes there is dual blades but thats another issue). We learned this issue with opportunity on sentinels, so it still boggles my mind it was ever even implemented like this.

 

As it is now you do have to take all 5 powers to maximize the ST damage. and you use only attune and sonic thrust once for the whole duration of the single target kill, so ends up being really way too invested in slots and powers for two powers you basically don't even use, which again, it makes more sense for attune to just be more of a self toggle that adds more damage the more you use any sonic attack on the same enemy (similar to -resistance but instead of debuffing resistance increasing the damage your sonic powers do to the target). Then still the issue of sandman's whisper being on too short of a rech/damage value which is also odd, having 3 other attacks that are 6s or less, as well as the same issue with sonic clap. There is just so much wrong with the stats on the powers in this set, hopefully it's fixed before it goes live.

 

Yes, we've had this talk. The devs want to try something new, Let them cook. If they could improve the numbers a bit for the T1 T2 play the set's nearly there in terms of damage since I was getting three minutes on a pylon with no snipes or whatever. 30 seconds off and it would be about there, IMO.

[Championess]

14 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Attune is not Auto Hit. It requires a hit roll to apply the initial Attunement. The attune effect itself has an accuracy check every tick also for its damage. You might not see much need to slot it for recharge, but slotting it for accuracy might be highly desirable. 

An interesting aspect of this lingering DoT is that it reacts dynamically to buffs. This means any +dmg, or +tohit you get will boost the Attune DoT even if it was applied **before** you used Sound Booster or used that inspiration.

 

Very neat indeed.  I wasn't sure since enemy affecting toggles don't always need to enhance many things like accuracy how that would play out setting this power, looks like I'll want to kit it decent too.  

 

Question about the duration on target then.  With it being a toggle I knew it was on my main target until they were dead.  Now how long of a duration is the attune going to last while you hit them with it?  I see also room for hitting multiple targets now possibly as a click as opposed to a toggle so that'd be nice if its a decent duration.

Edited Friday at 10:42 PM by Championess

[Hamborgini]

Tank: Attune's damage is not being boosted by either Sonic Thrust or Strident Echo.

Here's a log of the DoT effect doing <1 point of damage before and after hitting with Strident Echo:

Attune's DoT is being properly boosted on other ATs.

 

Also on tanks, the 10% damage boosts from Sonic Thrust and Strident Echo don't seem to be applying.

This log shows Earsplitter damage to be the same before and after hitting with Sonic Thrust.:

 

 

On all ATs except tanks, Strident Echo turns from a quick DoT into a single hit of damage if the target has been hit with Strident Echo.

In this log, I used Strident Echo (a DoT), then Sonic Thrust, then Strident Echo again (now a single hit) :

Edited Saturday at 12:37 AM by Hamborgini
Updated with more testing.

[Captain Powerhouse]

2 hours ago, Championess said:

Question about the duration on target then.  With it being a toggle I knew it was on my main target until they were dead.  Now how long of a duration is the attune going to last while you hit them with it?  I see also room for hitting multiple targets now possibly as a click as opposed to a toggle so that'd be nice if its a decent duration

 

Until they die or you attack something else with Attune.

[Shin Magmus]

12 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Yes, we've had this talk. The devs want to try something new, Let them cook.

   We "let them cook" increasingly convoluted gimmick sets every fucking update.  Think about the context in which Sonic Melee is getting this feedback, it comes after 3 or 4 failed gimmick sets that people do not like.  Seismic Blast's gimmicks still don't even work correctly.

[Sovera]

Though it feels like regression I'm not sure if Attune should not revert to being the T1.

 

Yes, for approximately 30 seconds if someone takes Attune first they will have a toggle instead of an attack, but using Brawl/origin power and 30 seconds later of hitting white mobs with 100% XP on and they are level 2. This is not hyperbole, I can replicate this if needed.

 

This would *still* mean taking the T1 and T2, but not a T3 as well. (I've no idea what the new T3 would be). Gimmick would still be in place. T2 would empower the T1 (Attune), maybe the other powers would empower it as well.

 

I know this approach has been tried but the set has been iterated since.

[Sovera]

Just now, Shin Magmus said:

   We "let them cook" increasingly convoluted gimmick sets every fucking update.  Think about the context in which Sonic Melee is getting this feedback, it comes after 3 or 4 failed gimmick sets that people do not like.  Seismic Blast's gimmicks still don't even work correctly.

 

Preaching to the choir, bro.

[Hamborgini]

All ATs: Attune no longer applies a DoT. The ongoing visual effects also turn off about 1 second after they start.

This log shows Attune doing only the initial hit with no DoT effect:

[Captain Powerhouse]

21 minutes ago, Hamborgini said:

All ATs: Attune no longer applies a DoT. The ongoing visual effects also turn off about 1 second after they start

 

The new click system was killing the server so it had to have an emergency change overnight while I was not available that simply meant disabling attune's dot. Going to be looking into a solution for this throughout the day.

[Alchemystic]

A shame, cos playing the new verison of Attune is definitely more user friendly than the previous iterations, but it seems to have no shortage of back-end issues. I appreciate changes were made to try and make the power feel less awkward to use, but it seems the awkwardness is happening on the technical side instead.

If we had a powerset like Sonic Aura to match, I'd probably throw the Attune idea at that instead, and turning it into the powerset's AoE aura with similar mechanics. An AoE toggle that reduces enemy resistance, taunts foes, and gives your attack powers an energy DoT effect.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

The new click system was killing the server so it had to have an emergency change overnight while I was not available that simply meant disabling attune's dot. Going to be looking into a solution for this throughout the day.

 

Were you rearranging the furniture again?

[Shin Magmus]

     What if you try implementing it as another new mechanism?  Toggle Attune was very clunky to use, so maybe click Attune can summon an invisible pet or psuedopet that just attacks the last enemy you hit with any of your single target Sonic Melee attacks.  That pet could persist and keep switching targets and attacking them, with its damage checking the same flags set by your other attacks that it currently uses: except make it be all single target Sonic Melee attacks and not just the T1/T2.  I don't think you'll ever really get the playerbase to like being forced to use their T1.