Get rid of minimum level on most (non 50) IO requirements

[chi1701]

For me, CoX is a fun game to play with like minded players. There is no judgement on what set bonuses you have if you have any as long as you do your best when playing and this community is great for this.

At the moment, investment is better done once and once only, at level 50 with the cheapest io (if available on ah) to supplement your build untill you can buy/make the sets you need.

Since characters tend to only flurish at 50 with set bonuses with builds already planned out, power leveling is prefered method of playing. Hit 50, get sets, and then gameplay starts.

If sets and io's had only a minimum level and the stats them selves improved as you leveled, players may actually take their time to reach 50.

Since recipes are random and can come at any level and the materials are extensive, for me wouldnt become a mind field and if you did decide to make sets at low levels to end game, feel that your more likely to spend more time crafting and playing the game, since cant gurantee that the crafting materials you need will drop or the recipes them selves.

 

Il try to sumarise. Crafting sets as you level I believe is impossible, with so many slots, I feel that it would be impossible to get the recipes and mats together. Leveling wouldnt be needed to be done ASAP for builds.

[UltraAlt]

On 11/16/2025 at 10:14 AM, Uun said:

I'm not sure what the orignal devs were thinking in creating multiple tiers of IOs. Having sets cap at lvl 30 is bad too. 

 

I think they were thinking "inf sink" for both.

It would be a sign of prestige to be able to slot sets at low levels.

 

A good number of  us still know that the content can be accomplished with SO's so the IO sets are really just "extra", so they are just as much of an inf-sink as they ever were.

Well, infl-sink for some can mean profit for others.

[UltraAlt]

On 11/17/2025 at 9:39 AM, tidge said:

when I am actually slotting a Snipe set I always opt for Experienced Marksman. Typically I want the Fast Snipe anyway, but MMV.

 

Yeah, when I first started playing on Homecoming I slotted thinking "Oh, Fast Snipe is cool", but then when I realized what it was an that snipe powers automatically turn into "fast snipe" during combat I was like "That enhancement is useless". They really need to change that enhancement from "fast snipe" to something else ... I think there is a suggestion thread about that ...maybe there is more than one.

 

On 11/17/2025 at 12:15 PM, srmalloy said:

One thing that I think needs to be looked at is IO scaling, so that, while the high end doesn't change, the bottom end doesn't disicentivise slotting even common IOs at lower levels because they're no better than TOs. 

 

Which discourages slotting them until higher levels, which I don't think is a bad thing.

 

On 11/23/2025 at 8:31 PM, skoryy said:

I'd have to chew on this some more, but i really would have loved to have gotten that Bombardment proc on my current build before level 27. 😁

 

Seems to me that having to wait until 27 to slot it only make that "ding" all that much more of a feeling of achievement/success.

 

 

[tidge]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Yeah, when I first started playing on Homecoming I slotted thinking "Oh, Fast Snipe is cool", but then when I realized what it was an that snipe powers automatically turn into "fast snipe" during combat I was like "That enhancement is useless". They really need to change that enhancement from "fast snipe" to something else ... I think there is a suggestion thread about that ...maybe there is more than one.

 

I find the Fast Snipe (and range!) enhancement from Experienced Marksman to be a very sneakily good option. It is also the 6th piece, so it isn't by any means necessary... the rest of the set offers good enhancements (including Interrupt times, Recharge) what I like about this piece:

• There are a few blast sets that get a Snipe at low level, so having the Fast Snipe gives the character a 'regular' attack... I know this can feel like 'but I lost my infini-range attack!', but for most content this isn't really necessary.

The Mechanics of the Fast Snipe are such that building for +ToHit (up to +22%) adds damage to the Fast Snipe. We did lose range on the Fast Snipes, but the range enhancement helps to mitigate that. This is the purpose IMO to slot that piece even though in-combat the Snipe powers all become 'fast'. IIRC, +22% damage is what the Slow Snipe does... so a Kismet piece and power choices can have Blasters pretty much almost always at +22% ToHit.

 

I typically don't use Fast Snipe pieces on Scrappers/Stalkers... I like them to have the option for very long range attacks, and when in combat they will always have Fast Snipes anyway (as noted above).

 

[Psi-bolt]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I think they were thinking "inf sink" for both.

It would be a sign of prestige to be able to slot sets at low levels.

 

 

It wasn't on live and isn't now a major influence sink to use low level IO sets and/or common IOs.   It's a sink if you buy everything from the market, but not if you use AE, merits, drops, etc.  Low level IO sets are pretty cheap to craft and use if you aren't thinking of them as part of your terminal build.  Common IOs are significantly cheaper than SOs at 25+ with only a marginal loss in performance using level 25 common IOs.

 

Using SOs, especially now that Homecoming made them available so early is as much or more of a influence sink IMO.

 

Quote

A good number of  us still know that the content can be accomplished with SO's so the IO sets are really just "extra", so they are just as much of an inf-sink as they ever were.

Well, infl-sink for some can mean profit for others.

 

Honestly, you can play unslotted and get through most of the leveling content.    But SOs (or Common IOs) versus sets is a trade off until you get to the mid-30s.  It's not like SOs are weaker.  The trade off is better enhancement values at low level versus the benefit of procs/minor set bonuses.  Once full sets are more common at level 30+ you can get full enhancement values and the benefit of set bonuses.

Edited Tuesday at 03:16 PM by Psi-bolt

[srmalloy]

5 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Yeah, when I first started playing on Homecoming I slotted thinking "Oh, Fast Snipe is cool", but then when I realized what it was an that snipe powers automatically turn into "fast snipe" during combat I was like "That enhancement is useless". They really need to change that enhancement from "fast snipe" to something else ... I think there is a suggestion thread about that ...maybe there is more than one.

The Fast Snipe IO trades the animation time of the out-of-combat snipe for reduced damage, but with increased to-hit you get some of that damage back, until at 24% To-Hit bonus, you can have a Fast Snipe with full slow Snipe damage, letting you pull off faster alpha shots. Personally, I don't think chasing the to-hit bonus just for a couple of seconds faster alpha is worth it, but YMMV.

[skoryy]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Seems to me that having to wait until 27 to slot it only make that "ding" all that much more of a feeling of achievement/success.

 

Maybe in 2012, but HC's different. My feeling of achievement here was leveling this alt to 50 in less than two weeks.

[UltraAlt]

15 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

It wasn't on live and isn't now a major influence sink to use low level IO sets and/or common IOs.   It's a sink if you buy everything from the market, but not if you use AE, merits, drops, etc. 

 

IO set recipes don't drop that much at low levels, and they often aren't ones that the character they drop on can use. Also, if you can't transfer funds from other character they were sort of pricey to make. Low level characters don't generate a lot of merits.

I'm not sure about your point is about AE.

 

15 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

Common IOs are significantly cheaper than SOs at 25+ with only a marginal loss in performance using level 25 common IOs.

 

I haven't crafted the low level non-set IO's in a good while. I remember when I did craft them, that they were more expensive to craft when not memorized than SO's, but maybe you are saying that over levels as some people slot a low level non-set IO and leave it on the character until they hit level 50.

However, if we are talking about buying non-set IO's on the market, they now can be bought dirt cheap (well below crafting cost) due to badge h...errr.. hunters and those that are working on getting a portable work station (which is cheaper to get it from a START vendor then by crafting).

 

15 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

Honestly, you can play unslotted and get through most of the leveling content.

 

I guess it is a matter of what difficulty you are playing on and/or if you have other player's characters carrying the weight for your character.

 

15 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

But SOs (or Common IOs) versus sets is a trade off until you get to the mid-30s.  It's not like SOs are weaker.

 

Yes, SO's are stronger until the mid 30s.

 

15 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

Once full sets are more common at level 30+ you can get full enhancement values and the benefit of set bonuses.

 

The basic percentages of Set IO's increases as a character levels up.

 

[UltraAlt]

14 hours ago, srmalloy said:

The Fast Snipe IO trades the animation time of the out-of-combat snipe for reduced damage, but with increased to-hit you get some of that damage back, until at 24% To-Hit bonus, you can have a Fast Snipe with full slow Snipe damage, letting you pull off faster alpha shots. Personally, I don't think chasing the to-hit bonus just for a couple of seconds faster alpha is worth it, but YMMV.

 

I'm not following how having an increased to-hit bonus increase the damage of an attack.

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, skoryy said:

Maybe in 2012, but HC's different. My feeling of achievement here was leveling this alt to 50 in less than two weeks.

 

We all play differently.

If my goal was to rush to level 50, I'd be door sitting and/or joining +4/x8 (or whatever the "cool kids" are doing these days) police scanner mission team in Peregrine Island.

 

I try to play content so that it is challenging but doable. There are several ways to get to that point.

My goal isn't to rush through content. I'm trying to enjoy the journey.

 

If we do things like removing minimum level on IO sets:

1) it adds to power creep

2) it causes imbalances in the game mechanics

3) it gets further away from how the game was intended to operate by the original DEVs

[tidge]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm not following how having an increased to-hit bonus increase the damage of an attack.

 

This is a special feature of Snipes. Currently, on HC:

• "Slow Snipes" have longer range, and base damage is increased by 22%. They are interruptable, and the interrupt time eats into time for other attacks.
• "Fast Snipes" are not interruptable, have reduced range, but every amount of +ToHit increases the damage of the attack, up to +22% (equivalent of the "Slow")

In terms of performance... the nearest equivalent I can think of is the Stalkers' Assassin Strike from Hidden. Those do more damage, but multiple uses of them slows down attack chains, and when used as the opener takes longer.

 

To repeat what I wrote earlier: If a Blaster can take a snipe at low level (e.g. Moonbeam at level 8), slotting the fast snipe piece makes it behave like a 'regular' attack with a predictable cycle time. I find this to be most convenient when I don't want to take both the T1 and T2 blasts to have a regularize attack chain. Personally: I never feel the need to play 'far away blaster' except on certain Master of ____ runs, so I don't plan on opening at Slow Snipe range as most of my attacks are not at that long range. I *do* miss the original (HC) fast Snipe range, because runners.

 

It isn't particularly hard to have a solo level 50 Blaster sitting at/near +22% ToHit. Kismet can get +6, there are Build Ups, Aims, Tactics... and for certain builds (I've done this with Temporal Manipulation) a Build Up like Chronos can be auto-fired every 22ish seconds, with a ~90% of having the Gaussian's %BuildUp proc activate.

 

For Scrappers/Stalkers who get Snipes in an Epic/Patron pool in the 30s... they shouldn't need the snipe for a realistic attack chain... so the Slow snipe (as an option) makes more sense for them IMO. Depending on the primary, those ATs may not have another ranged attack, so Sniper enhancement sets may not even be an optimal choice for them.  Blasters usually have lots of different options for various damage enhancement sets, and IMO the Experienced Marksman set offers attractive set bonuses for Blasters.

[skoryy]

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

If we do things like removing minimum level on IO sets:

1) it adds to power creep

2) it causes imbalances in the game mechanics

3) it gets further away from how the game was intended to operate by the original DEVs

 

For 1 and 2, as I said, we'd have to chew on it over the ramifications.  As for 3, though, how the game was originally intended to operate was not for everyone to have dozens upon dozens of alts, yet that's the game we have today. To paraphrase a movie quote, if you've leveled an alt to 50 sixteen times, you've become exceedingly efficient at it.

And for the record, three DFBs, two Posi 1s, two Posi 2s, three Pennys, Synapse, Citadel, Manticore, WTF Moonfire, Imperious, a couple PI radios, and a smattering of giant monsters and solo hero tips got Sparkle Punk from 1 to 50 in eleven days. Didn't touch AE until last night for the SG weekly event.  Its quick and easy to get a character to level cap just by playing the game how it was intended to operate.

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm not following how having an increased to-hit bonus increase the damage of an attack.

It was in the Issue 26, Page 2 patch notes -- the first iteration of fast snipes prior to this update was set up so that at +22% to-hit, all your snipes became fast snipes, whether in or out of combat. The patch notes (from the wiki) state:

 

General Changes

• ToHit is no longer required to achieve fast-snipe. Now, combat status determines if snipes are fast or slow, and ToHit buffs increase how much damage fast-snipe inflicts.

• The snipe will be fast if you have attacked or been attacked in the last 8 seconds; this is the same time as Stalker's Hide.

Blaster/Defender/Corruptor Snipes

• Base 2.28 scale damage in their "quick" form, down from 2.76 scale.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.76 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 4.5 scale damage.

Dominator Snipes

• Base 2.67 scale damage in their "quick" form, down from 3.56 scale.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 3.56 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 4.5 scale damage.

Epic Snipes

• Will now have a base 1.75 scale damage in their quick form.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.3 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 3.56 scale damage
• Slow form crits will do 3.56 + 1.78 scale damage.

So slotting the Experienced Marksman Range/Fast Snipe IO will make that attack always use the fast -- and lower-damage -- snipe attack, but the lower damage can be partially offset by the character's To-Hit bonus -- but you don't get all the way back to the base damage of the slow snipe, which means that you'll have to decide whether the loss of damage for your 'alpha' (non-combat) snipe is worth the reduction in time for that one shot, with the option of dedicating slots to Tactics, Focused Accuracy, Targeting Drone, Eagle Eye, or Aim/Build-Up, plus the Kismet proc and the P2W Offense Amplifier to boost that one attack's damage from ~50% of the out-of-combat damage by ~15%; it depends on how much you use your snipe attack in combat -- more to-hit is generally useful, because you'll land more attacks, but it only boosts damage for your snipe attack(s). 

[Psi-bolt]

13 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

IO set recipes don't drop that much at low levels, and they often aren't ones that the character they drop on can use. Also, if you can't transfer funds from other character they were sort of pricey to make. Low level characters don't generate a lot of merits.

I'm not sure about your point is about AE.

 

Those two comments go together.  Doing AE arcs at low level allow you to do bronze rolls on the lowbie sets.   This allows you to make money very quickly and get access to some of the good early game bonuses (e.g. Steadfast's Res/Def, KB prot, Karma KB prot, etc.) without spending.   On top of that it gives you some valuable stuff to sell.    Sometimes, I will do a new alt without funding them and I still have influence and some of the good sets before level 20.

 

Quote

I haven't crafted the low level non-set IO's in a good while. I remember when I did craft them, that they were more expensive to craft when not memorized than SO's, but maybe you are saying that over levels as some people slot a low level non-set IO and leave it on the character until they hit level 50.

However, if we are talking about buying non-set IO's on the market, they now can be bought dirt cheap (well below crafting cost) due to badge h...errr.. hunters and those that are working on getting a portable work station (which is cheaper to get it from a START vendor then by crafting).

 

Yes, both of those are true.   At level 22, slotting 25th level common IOs and just leaving them there until you're ready to start slotting set IOs can save you quite a bit over using SOs.  Waiting to 27 and using 30s which I think many people do provide this benefit with basically no loss in effectiveness.    Doing your own crafting can be expensive yes, but it pays off in the end, but taking advantage of the good prices that badgers sell them for is also a good strategy.  That's what I do with most alts these days.

 

Quote

I guess it is a matter of what difficulty you are playing on and/or if you have other player's characters carrying the weight for your character.

 

I think it also depends on what you're playing.   A Defender can oftentimes get by without much (or any) slotting by virtue of their buffs being so potent.  At a certain point, most people won't even notice.  When I did a FF Defender on a lark during a double exp event, I had SOs but was leveling so fast that I didn't even bother to keep them updated.  Teams were forming too quick for me to even get common IOs before 30.   I don't know that it made much of a difference.  

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, tidge said:

This is a special feature of Snipes. Currently, on HC:

• "Slow Snipes" have longer range, and base damage is increased by 22%. They are interruptable, and the interrupt time eats into time for other attacks.
• "Fast Snipes" are not interruptable, have reduced range, but every amount of +ToHit increases the damage of the attack, up to +22% (equivalent of the "Slow")

 

I found the patch notes.

This occurred before I started playing on Homecoming. Thanks for the info.

 

11 hours ago, tidge said:

To repeat what I wrote earlier: If a Blaster can take a snipe at low level (e.g. Moonbeam at level 8), slotting the fast snipe piece makes it behave like a 'regular' attack with a predictable cycle time. I find this to be most convenient when I don't want to take both the T1 and T2 blasts to have a regularize attack chain. Personally: I never feel the need to play 'far away blaster' except on certain Master of ____ runs, so I don't plan on opening at Slow Snipe range as most of my attacks are not at that long range. I *do* miss the original (HC) fast Snipe range, because runners.

 

Okay. But as soon as you are in combat it is a fast snipe anyway.

The regular snipe is triggered non-combat.

 

And, honesty, if you have a tank with taunt on the team and can wait for 8 secs to use the snipe, it goes back to a regular snipe

But, I guess if you can stack in to hit bonuses that increase damage then that can potentially make the fast snipe as damaging as a normal snipe without the interrupt time. 

 

11 hours ago, tidge said:

It isn't particularly hard to have a solo level 50 Blaster sitting at/near +22% ToHit. Kismet can get +6, there are Build Ups, Aims, Tactics... and for certain builds (I've done this with Temporal Manipulation) a Build Up like Chronos can be auto-fired every 22ish seconds, with a ~90% of having the Gaussian's %BuildUp proc activate.

 

Okay. so that's a level 50. We are talking about slotting the and experienced marksman enhancement below level 10, so I'm confused.

 

11 hours ago, tidge said:

For Scrappers/Stalkers who get Snipes in an Epic/Patron pool in the 30s... they shouldn't need the snipe for a realistic attack chain... so the Slow snipe (as an option) makes more sense for them IMO. Depending on the primary, those ATs may not have another ranged attack, so Sniper enhancement sets may not even be an optimal choice for them.  Blasters usually have lots of different options for various damage enhancement sets, and IMO the Experienced Marksman set offers attractive set bonuses for Blasters.

 

It automatically is a fast snipe if they are in combat.

If you are slotting it for set bonuses, I can understand that angle.

 

9 hours ago, skoryy said:

As for 3, though, how the game was originally intended to operate was not for everyone to have dozens upon dozens of alts, yet that's the game we have today.

 

Uh, we could have dozens upon dozens. (not exactly sure how many you are intending to imply here)

I had 14 characters on all of the 11 US servers.

Thousands? No. Dozens. Yes.

 

I'm confused as to how you think having more characters slots than we had before the Sunset changes how the game plays.

Some people had multiple accounts before the Sunset.

 

9 hours ago, skoryy said:

And for the record, three DFBs, two Posi 1s, two Posi 2s, three Pennys, Synapse, Citadel, Manticore, WTF Moonfire, Imperious, a couple PI radios, and a smattering of giant monsters and solo hero tips got Sparkle Punk from 1 to 50 in eleven days. Didn't touch AE until last night for the SG weekly event.  Its quick and easy to get a character to level cap just by playing the game how it was intended to operate.

 

Okay. No need to get defensive.

We all play the game differently.

I'm not rushing my characters to get to 50.

 

8 hours ago, srmalloy said:

It was in the Issue 26, Page 2 patch notes -- the first iteration of fast snipes prior to this update was set up so that at +22% to-hit, all your snipes became fast snipes, whether in or out of combat. The patch notes (from the wiki) state:

 

Thanks for posting all of it.

 

8 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Blaster/Defender/Corruptor Snipes

• Base 2.28 scale damage in their "quick" form, down from 2.76 scale.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.76 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 4.5 scale damage.

 

Damage scale on a B/D/C normal snipe is 4.5 scale damage.

Damage scale on a B/D/C fast snipe with the max benefit/cap of +to hit is only 2.76 scale damage. (which puts the fast snipe back up to the scale it was before it was reduced from 2.76 to 2.28)

 

8 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Epic Snipes

• Will now have a base 1.75 scale damage in their quick form.
• Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.3 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
• Slow form will do 3.56 scale damage
• Slow form crits will do 3.56 + 1.78 scale damage.

 

Damage scale on an Epic normal snipe is 3.56 scale + a possible crit 1.78 scale damage.

Damage scale on an Epic quick snipe is only 2.3 scale damage with the max benefit/cap of +to hit.

 

Or am I confused about what it is saying?

 

6 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

Doing AE arcs at low level allow you to do bronze rolls on the lowbie sets.

 

Gotcha.

 

 

 

[srmalloy]

15 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Or am I confused about what it is saying?

No, you're reading it correctly -- a fast snipe with its 'bonus' damage capped from 22% ToHit gets you up to about 75% of the damage a slow snipe will do, with the slow snipe having the addition of the greater range. Unless you're living and dying on the extra time of the slow snipe as your lead when you enter combat, it's (at least in my opinion) not a good tradeoff to slot the Experienced Marksman Range/Fast Snipe IO.

[Rudra]

22 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

42 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Or am I confused about what it is saying?

No, you're reading it correctly -- a fast snipe with its 'bonus' damage capped from 22% ToHit gets you up to about 75% of the damage a slow snipe will do, with the slow snipe having the addition of the greater range. Unless you're living and dying on the extra time of the slow snipe as your lead when you enter combat, it's (at least in my opinion) not a good tradeoff to slot the Experienced Marksman Range/Fast Snipe IO.

I'm just chalking it up to a matter of personal preference. I don't have any use for the Experienced Marksman Range/Fast Snipe IO personally, but neither will I tell anyone not to use it. If I wanted my snipe to be a fast snipe and I wasn't concerned about range, then I would just use another attack to open and my snipe is now a fast snipe I can fit into the chain. I personally prefer to keep my slow snipe since I prefer to open fights with my ranged characters at as much distance as I can manage.

 

There is also the consideration that the enhancements I slot into a snipe to get that 22% ToHit to improve a fast snipe's damage can also have the damage improved by simply slotting damage instead, which will also improve my slow snipe damage. (I still build ToHit/Accuracy into my snipes, but not any more than I build into my other attacks. And I can squeeze in some global accuracy or ToHit buffs from special IOs and set bonuses.)