Illusion and the importance of Perma-PA

[doyler]

I have a question about the PA mechanics, and how important it would be making it permanent.

 

In my current Ill/Cold build, I've got my PA recharge down to 60.91s, which is awesome. That said, I could make some changes (not sure if good or bad), and get this down to 59.57s.

 

With that in mind, I'm wondering if there is a functional difference between the two of them in regards to their taunt. I've run into a few issues (LOOKING AT YOU MALAISE) where I was trying to solo a 54 AV, and was killed as I recast the Decoys.

 

I know that recasting while they are active will cause them to despawn/respawn, but was wondering if there was any benefit to having the overlapping recharge as opposed to my current < 1s downtime.

[Zepp]

It is "Currently not known"

 

There are some that argue that because of the cast time of 3.3s, 63.3s recharge is functionally perma-PA. However it is unclear whether this is the case. Either way, the new PA is not the old PA in terms of aggro. Therefore, you will run into the same issues either way... a good argument for having SI/GI both running as they drop your threat level by 200% while Phantasm and Spooky cover for those lazy respawning PAs...

 

[Extor Prime]

It also somewhat depends on how much resistance and defense you have stacked. If you can take a couple attacks without getting one-shotted, then there's no particular need to get PA exactly perma. You can also plug the hole with the Phantasm - it summons a decoy as soon as you summon it, so recasting it will provide a distraction for your target.

 

I say as long as your ranged defense is near 45 and your PA recharges in under 65 seconds, you should be just fine.

[Frosticus]

The first  of the PA pops out before the cast time is finished. but that said they have to attack to regain taunt. So even with perma PA you've got about a 4 second window where aggro is unmanaged.

 

There's lots of things you could do to mitigate in that time. My personal trick on my old ill/cold is as extor mentioned - phantasm and getting him to use the decoy.

 

Also ensuring you just nailed them with HL and benumb can really help. HL is -300% rech. Even +4 AVs are impacted by that (along with your other -rech powers).

 

Alternately you can respec for the specific target you are fighting. Psy epic may give you a leg up against malaise.

Or power mastery and keep cycling in your confuse with power boost. Granted I'm not sure if you'll get enough to confuse at +4 and it is a significant hit to dps but, if you die then dps is really low heh.

 

Finally, unless you are strictly fighting  toe to toe for whatever reason then simply ducking  behind a crate or corner for a couple seconds while PA regains aggro is effective.

[Coyote]

The first  of the PA pops out before the cast time is finished. but that said they have to attack to regain taunt. So even with perma PA you've got about a 4 second window where aggro is unmanaged.

 

There's lots of things you could do to mitigate in that time. My personal trick on my old ill/cold is as extor mentioned - phantasm and getting him to use the decoy.

 

Also ensuring you just nailed them with HL and benumb can really help. HL is -300% rech. Even +4 AVs are impacted by that (along with your other -rech powers).

 

Alternately you can respec for the specific target you are fighting. Psy epic may give you a leg up against malaise.

Or power mastery and keep cycling in your confuse with power boost. Granted I'm not sure if you'll get enough to confuse at +4 and it is a significant hit to dps but, if you die then dps is really low heh.

 

Finally, unless you are strictly fighting  toe to toe for whatever reason then simply ducking  behind a crate or corner for a couple seconds while PA regains aggro is effective.

 

Frosticus is right in general: it is very difficult to have "perma-aggroing PA". It should be possible, in theory, as the 3 decoys come out at 1 second intervals, which means that if Decoy #3 from Set 1 has aggro, then Decoy #1 from Set 2 could come in, activate its attack power, and grab aggro as Decoy #3 from Set 2 arrives and deletes Decoy #3/Set 1. So there is about a 2 second overlap where one set is being summoned while the other exists (this assumes that the power itself is permanent, leaving aside the actual decoys)... if Decoy 1 attacks and hits in that 2 second gap, it should hold aggro for you.

 

In practice, this is really a tight space, and you can't improve it, because quite often the decoys come in and look around in curiosity for a second or two. "Boss, why are we here? Oh, a fight?! Cool. Okay, let's mash face". So you will have aggro drop no matter what you do... but, ironically, the AV could be locked in an attack animation on one of the fading decoys, heh. Because of the combination of the AV needing to finish its last attack, and your first decoy needing to start (and finish) its first attack, you can't really guarantee that your PA will permanently have aggro.

 

Therefore, plan on aggro drop for a few seconds no matter what you do with your build, so you're better off in making the build better overall (and especially in personal safety for a few seconds), than in squeezing out that last half second.

 

Suggestions are: Power Boost to get defensive powers stronger. Hibernate at the PA drop and wait for Phantasm's Decoy to draw aggro. Phase Shift, like Hibernate, though going into the Concealment Pool for an Illusion Controller is otherwise only useful for LotG mules. Draw the AV during the fight to an area where you can duck around a corner when PA drops... given the choice of engaging your Phantasm or its decoy, or running around the corner to you, usually the AV will turn and 2-shot the Phantasm (or waste time on its decoy), which gives you time to summon PA at the corner.

[doyler]

...a good argument for having SI/GI both running as they drop your threat level by 200% while Phantasm and Spooky cover for those lazy respawning PAs...

 

Hmm, that might be a good reason to swap Arctic Fog for SI.

 

It also somewhat depends on how much resistance and defense you have stacked. If you can take a couple attacks without getting one-shotted, then there's no particular need to get PA exactly perma. You can also plug the hole with the Phantasm - it summons a decoy as soon as you summon it, so recasting it will provide a distraction for your target.

 

I say as long as your ranged defense is near 45 and your PA recharges in under 65 seconds, you should be just fine.

 

Yea, I'm sitting on 45% ranged def and a 60.91s PA recharge, but can definitely be one-shot by some 54 A/Vs (Malaise, Mayhem was 2 hits)

 

There's lots of things you could do to mitigate in that time. My personal trick on my old ill/cold is as extor mentioned - phantasm and getting him to use the decoy.

 

Alternately you can respec for the specific target you are fighting. Psy epic may give you a leg up against malaise.

Or power mastery and keep cycling in your confuse with power boost. Granted I'm not sure if you'll get enough to confuse at +4 and it is a significant hit to dps but, if you die then dps is really low heh.

 

Finally, unless you are strictly fighting  toe to toe for whatever reason then simply ducking  behind a crate or corner for a couple seconds while PA regains aggro is effective.

 

Yea, I may start de-spawning Phanty before the drop, which could work. Don't want to respec for specific A/Vs yet, but it's an option! Yea, been ducking and dodging mostly haha.

 

The first  of the PA pops out before the cast time is finished. but that said they have to attack to regain taunt. So even with perma PA you've got about a 4 second window where aggro is unmanaged.

 

There's lots of things you could do to mitigate in that time. My personal trick on my old ill/cold is as extor mentioned - phantasm and getting him to use the decoy.

 

Also ensuring you just nailed them with HL and benumb can really help. HL is -300% rech. Even +4 AVs are impacted by that (along with your other -rech powers).

 

Alternately you can respec for the specific target you are fighting. Psy epic may give you a leg up against malaise.

Or power mastery and keep cycling in your confuse with power boost. Granted I'm not sure if you'll get enough to confuse at +4 and it is a significant hit to dps but, if you die then dps is really low heh.

 

Finally, unless you are strictly fighting  toe to toe for whatever reason then simply ducking  behind a crate or corner for a couple seconds while PA regains aggro is effective.

 

Frosticus is right in general: it is very difficult to have "perma-aggroing PA". It should be possible, in theory, as the 3 decoys come out at 1 second intervals, which means that if Decoy #3 from Set 1 has aggro, then Decoy #1 from Set 2 could come in, activate its attack power, and grab aggro as Decoy #3 from Set 2 arrives and deletes Decoy #3/Set 1. So there is about a 2 second overlap where one set is being summoned while the other exists (this assumes that the power itself is permanent, leaving aside the actual decoys)... if Decoy 1 attacks and hits in that 2 second gap, it should hold aggro for you.

 

In practice, this is really a tight space, and you can't improve it, because quite often the decoys come in and look around in curiosity for a second or two. "Boss, why are we here? Oh, a fight?! Cool. Okay, let's mash face". So you will have aggro drop no matter what you do... but, ironically, the AV could be locked in an attack animation on one of the fading decoys, heh. Because of the combination of the AV needing to finish its last attack, and your first decoy needing to start (and finish) its first attack, you can't really guarantee that your PA will permanently have aggro.

 

Therefore, plan on aggro drop for a few seconds no matter what you do with your build, so you're better off in making the build better overall (and especially in personal safety for a few seconds), than in squeezing out that last half second.

 

Suggestions are: Power Boost to get defensive powers stronger. Hibernate at the PA drop and wait for Phantasm's Decoy to draw aggro. Phase Shift, like Hibernate, though going into the Concealment Pool for an Illusion Controller is otherwise only useful for LotG mules. Draw the AV during the fight to an area where you can duck around a corner when PA drops... given the choice of engaging your Phantasm or its decoy, or running around the corner to you, usually the AV will turn and 2-shot the Phantasm (or waste time on its decoy), which gives you time to summon PA at the corner.

 

That's what I was figuring about the recharge, so it may not be worth the build sacrifices/changes.

 

I've been using the Hib right as I spawn the PAs, which normally works unless they fire off a one-shot right away.

[DSorrow]

On my Ill/Cold I have PA down to about 57 seconds. I'd say about half the time it's enough to keep an AV perma aggroed, but every now and then the first decoy that comes out doesn't attack the AV before the last of the previous decoys phases out, and then the AV has a chance to attack me once. The main benefit of the overlap is that the AVs don't get a second chance at attacking me, so high damage attacks with DoT are pretty much the only thing that can kill me.