Let's discuss new difficulty options in the IO/Incarnate Meta!

[Infinitum]

6 hours ago, Cementi said:

Interesting interpretation considering if you read my entire post I specifically recognized that my feelings are certainly in the minority and I accept that.

However when balancing a game you have to accept that there are those that will lose their minds no matter what you do. Those people are irrelevant as they will never be happy and I am not concerned with making them happy.

That is far different than saying I want what I want and don't care that you all don't want it. What I am saying is you cannot simply keep buffing the underperformers. You have to be realistic and accept that at times something has to be nerfed. It isn't the end of the world and the ones that act like it is are not worth listening to.

If you're in the minority, which you are, balancing a game that would enrage the majority wouldn't be for the greater good and in the end your faction would be the ones taking their ball and running home when that did not happen unless you could somehow realize that the majority may be heading in the right direction.

 

Let's make something weaker to make a few people that can't adapt to how the game is played happy so everyone that was stronger is now more dependent on them.

 

Vs 

 

Let's make what's weaker more in tune with what's working great for the majority.

 

Now that I read it that way makes perfect sense to make the first group angry. *rolls eyes*

[Galaxy Brain]

7 hours ago, Cementi said:

Allthough I did enjoy trolling stalkers by placing well timed detention fields on assassin strike targets heh. I only did that if I knew the player.

Thats gonna be a big oof from me chief

[Cementi]

On 9/1/2019 at 9:39 AM, Infinitum said:

If you're in the minority, which you are, balancing a game that would enrage the majority wouldn't be for the greater good and in the end your faction would be the ones taking their ball and running home when that did not happen unless you could somehow realize that the majority may be heading in the right direction.

 

Let's make something weaker to make a few people that can't adapt to how the game is played happy so everyone that was stronger is now more dependent on them.

 

Vs 

 

Let's make what's weaker more in tune with what's working great for the majority.

 

Now that I read it that way makes perfect sense to make the first group angry. *rolls eyes*

Your still not getting it. I may not agree with proposed changes. Hell I am not even that worried if they don't change a thing. I am simply voicing my opinion. Those making the changes can weigh what opinions they value.

In the end I will take or leave any changes they may or may not make. I won't get excited about it and nor should anyone else.

If they change nothing then fine. However I doubt very much they will change nothing as they have already made changes. At some point though power creep will become a problem that cannot be ignored. At that point nerfs will happen....throwing a childish tantrum about it won't help things. Nor will getting mad at those that agree with the changes when they happen.

In short anyone who throws a hissy fit about nerfs is not really worth listening to. Constructive critisim is of course worthwhile. Sometimes nerfs go to far. Freaking out however is useless.

I won't bother responding to you again as I honestly think you are choosing to be offended and twisting what I say to fit your narrative. In discussions like that it is best for one to simply back away slowly and accept the other will never choose to understand what you are getting at. Disagreeing is fine. Intentionally misunderstanding is not. Have a nice day.

[Infinitum]

4 hours ago, Cementi said:

Your still not getting it. I may not agree with proposed changes. Hell I am not even that worried if they don't change a thing. I am simply voicing my opinion. Those making the changes can weigh what opinions they value.

In the end I will take or leave any changes they may or may not make. I won't get excited about it and nor should anyone else.

If they change nothing then fine. However I doubt very much they will change nothing as they have already made changes. At some point though power creep will become a problem that cannot be ignored. At that point nerfs will happen....throwing a childish tantrum about it won't help things. Nor will getting mad at those that agree with the changes when they happen.

In short anyone who throws a hissy fit about nerfs is not really worth listening to. Constructive critisim is of course worthwhile. Sometimes nerfs go to far. Freaking out however is useless.

I won't bother responding to you again as I honestly think you are choosing to be offended and twisting what I say to fit your narrative. In discussions like that it is best for one to simply back away slowly and accept the other will never choose to understand what you are getting at. Disagreeing is fine. Intentionally misunderstanding is not. Have a nice day.

I get it just fine you are in reality the self aggrandizing take your ball and go home type but are trying to deflect what you are on everyone else around you, but try to disguise it in what you think is sharp witted cutting remarks you think proves your point but in essence just really makes you look a bit bitter.

 

Im not offended at all by you, i really dont think you understand how the game works now and thats your biggest problem.  You havent proven any point because your points are invalid in the first place, its not your game, your opinion isnt in the majority, and if you were running a business that didnt care what effect changes had upon your clients or what they thought about it, you wouldnt be a very good businessperson or in business very long.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Infinitum

[Noyjitat]

Keep your nerfs to yourself. When you want a challenge turn off your toggles, team with totally random pugs and never invite buffs/debuffers. Seriously don't ever ask or hint to get sets and player powers nerfed ever again. Its about time people stop trying to dictate how others play or get the game made radically changed from what it already was during live. Ask for options, meaning options that are not required to complete existing content, hell ask for a heroic mode for incarnate trials and tfs (something I could agree to) 

 

Challenge is great and all but when I want to be a weak little pleb that struggles to fight all henchmen and faceplants during boss fights I go play mmorpgs.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Noyjitat

[Galaxy Brain]

Gonna give this a bump, but TFs and Ouro missions have separate optional difficulty increases. Is it possible to port those to all/any content and perhaps scale rewards to those?

[Murcielago]

On 9/3/2019 at 6:59 PM, Noyjitat said:

Keep your nerfs to yourself. When you want a challenge turn off your toggles, team with totally random pugs and never invite buffs/debuffers. Seriously don't ever ask or hint to get sets and player powers nerfed ever again. Its about time people stop trying to dictate how others play or get the game made radically changed from what it already was during live. Ask for options, meaning options that are not required to complete existing content, hell ask for a heroic mode for incarnate trials and tfs (something I could agree to) 

 

Challenge is great and all but when I want to be a weak little pleb that struggles to fight all henchmen and faceplants during boss fights I go play mmorpgs.

No one is suggesting that.

[Gulbasaur]

GW2 has some interesting things in Fractals (basically dungeons) where existing levels are made harder by mechanic changes applied as global debuffs.

 

Things like enemies having a +DMG aura to encourage use of positioning and immobilises, or players having a small repel aura, so stacking is punishing in some mission, or enemies having a change to explode on death (or resurrect on death) so you're forced to go ranged for some attacks or save some attacks for later. Enemies leaving trails of poison, enemies that have access to Secondary Mutation...

 

Or player buffs that do double damage if an enemy is/is *not* in their aura

 

 

I think things that would cause a break from the tank-and-nuke tactics we're all used to would be good.

 

We've got missions with in-mission buffs, so would it be mega hard to add a +1/2/3 random modifiers from the modifier pool? Can enemies take temporary powers?

[golstat2003]

Adding new OPTIONAL difficulty options are fine. Note the word OPTIONAL.

[Ruin Mage]

Anyone who complains about power creep is playing the wrong game. This game started getting real power creepy and fast - but Paragon Studios didn't care. What sort of thing did the creep affect? No one. It's a game about superheroes.

That being said, additional options for challenge would be awesome. As long as it didn't some with some backwards nerf just because people are whining that a 2004 game is "too easy."

[Galaxy Brain]

5 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Anyone who complains about power creep is playing the wrong game. This game started getting real power creepy and fast - but Paragon Studios didn't care. What sort of thing did the creep affect? No one. It's a game about superheroes.

That being said, additional options for challenge would be awesome. As long as it didn't some with some backwards nerf just because people are whining that a 2004 game is "too easy."

Power Creep hurts the sets that are not as good since you do not feel as super

[molten_dragon]

No.  Absolutely not.  Full stop.  Nothing is likely to make me stop playing this game faster than nerfing the IO system.  

 

I started playing live around I2.  I quit when ED came out because it ruined so many of my characters.  The IO system is what brought me back to the game because it made it possible to get back to similar levels as you could pre-ED, just with a bit more effort.  We absolutely do not need ED 2.0.

 

If anyone from the dev team is reading this, I cannot stress enough how much nerfing IOs would ruin my enjoyment of this game.

 

If significant portions of the player base want tougher challenges, there are lots of ways to provide that without nerfs.

[Ruin Mage]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Power Creep hurts the sets that are not as good since you do not feel as super

That's fair. Unfortunately that does happen. However, as far as I know? HC is into the mindset of tweaking sets that are perhaps sub-par. They teased something about electric power sets, and I'm willing to bet that means buffing Elec-based power sets.

That sort of thing can be slowly applied throughout the game. It's either that or broad sweeping nerfs to everything else that's doing good.

[Burnt Toast]

I don't like the way other people maximize their characters so I think we should nerf IOs.... uhhhh really? How is my character's ability to handle +4 enemies your problem? If you don't like all the fancy set bonuses - you do not have to use them! TADA!!! No one is forced to use set IOs...or even Generic IOs. 

 

Thankfully requests like this have no chance of happening on HC. 

[Galaxy Brain]

5 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

I don't like the way other people maximize their characters so I think we should nerf IOs.... uhhhh really? How is my character's ability to handle +4 enemies your problem? If you don't like all the fancy set bonuses - you do not have to use them! TADA!!! No one is forced to use set IOs...or even Generic IOs. 

 

Thankfully requests like this have no chance of happening on HC. 

Did you read the thread?

[Burnt Toast]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Did you read the thread?

Yep... did you? My statement echoes that of most of the respondents in this thread..... Again.. thankfully nothing like this will ever be implemented. 

[Galaxy Brain]

6 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Yep... did you? My statement echoes that of most of the respondents in this thread..... Again.. thankfully nothing like this will ever be implemented. 

I'm the OP of it, and while yes it originally was musing about how certain IOs are way stronger than others and that skews IO and Game balance, it then shifted hard into talking about advanced difficulty options which to your point would be something you can choose not to use just like with IO's. 

[Burnt Toast]

So.... one could then deduce that I replied to/commented on ... the original point of this post. Not sure if you are being obtuse on purpose and just singling my post out, but seriously most of the most recent posts after your necro bump have stated the same thing and addressed the intial part of this thread....which had died. 

 

Don't want people to comment on the WHOLE post?? Then maybe create a new one instead of bringng back a dead post after it has been inactive for 5 weeks 🙂

Edited October 24, 2019 by Burnt Toast

[Galaxy Brain]

The OP has 1 snippet at the beginning and end that touches on that original point, with the meat of it being about different difficulty options. Most of this page except for Molten and your post is talking about difficulty options as well, and the last page before is mostly talks of making end game harder / different enemy types / fixing certain sets. I am not sure where this is being resurfaced as the OP and most of the thread's posts are not on IOs anymore.