Pylon Damage Thread

[Maxzero]

19 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

This is absolutely laffo and I honestly might make a thugs/cold MM on Brainstorm to see.

 

Thugs/Cold/Fire MM

 

Double Gang War/Heat Loss/Sleet/Bonfire.

 

Though the video (still somewhere on youtube) I saw was Demons/Cold  for pure -res stacking.

 

Demons/Cold actually synergises very well you can get def softcap plus near 90% resist on your pets.

 

They still die a fair bit though.

 

Its not just MMs either. Trollers double stacking long CD debuffs with a double stacked Water Spout is pretty neat.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Maxzero

[arcane]

Five runs on Ill/Storm/Psy T4 Agility Radial / Degen Core / Ion Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:39

1:53

1:33

1:28

1:38

 

Average 1:38

[arcane]

Five runs on Ill/Traps/Psy T4 Intuition Radial / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:29

1:43

1:40

1:30

1:42

 

Average 1:36

[arcane]

Five runs on Dark/Dark/Ice Dom T4 Musc Core / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:42

1:43

1:53

1:54

1:44

 

Average 1:47

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Five runs on Dark/Dark/Ice Dom T4 Musc Core / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:42

1:43

1:53

1:54

1:44

 

Average 1:47

 

That's pretty damn awesome, man. Have you determined the average DPS loss from not using amplifiers?

[arcane]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

That's pretty damn awesome, man. Have you determined the average DPS loss from not using amplifiers?

Unfortunately I haven’t tested for this. I know the extra recharge wasn’t necessary in this instance to maintain the attack chain, and the +15% damage couldn’t be adding more than, say, 15 DPS (thinking about base DPA before enhancement). What I don’t know is the effect of shaving that extra few seconds recharge off Sleet, Gather Shadows, and pets..

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Unfortunately I haven’t tested for this. I know the extra recharge wasn’t necessary in this instance to maintain the attack chain, and the +15% damage couldn’t be adding more than, say, 15 DPS (thinking about base DPA before enhancement). What I don’t know is the effect of shaving that extra few seconds recharge off Sleet, Gather Shadows, and pets..

 

 

Ehh, whatever % the amps give to your dmg, just subtract that % from your time? You've already got a great idea how the DPS works. Either way, thats some sexy DPS. The extra % in damage does add up way more than people realize. Taking a 100 attack to 115 might not seem that much, but take a 1000 attack to 1150. Now do that to all your attacks. Running Assult for 10% and just having Assault T4 slotted for another 10% is pretty big. Part of why I find those BU procs so sexy.

Edited June 30, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Voltak]

17 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Ehh, whatever % the amps give to your dmg, just subtract that % from your time? You've already got a great idea how the DPS works. Either way, thats some sexy DPS. The extra % in damage does add up way more than people realize. Taking a 100 attack to 115 might not seem that much, but take a 1000 attack to 1150. Now do that to all your attacks. Running Assult for 10% and just having Assault T4 slotted for another 10% is pretty big. Part of why I find those BU procs so sexy.

I personally would have preferred running those tests without amplifiers so to avoid these subtracting maths that will be needed to get the true DPS without them. 

[SomeGuy]

4 hours ago, Voltak said:

I personally would have preferred running those tests without amplifiers so to avoid these subtracting maths that will be needed to get the true DPS without them. 

 

If @arcane is doing it mostly for their own purposes, up to them. It's why I always do my test the way I do, and I always do them the same. I'm just glad arcane is listing the variables usesd.

[Voltak]

16 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

If @arcane is doing it mostly for their own purposes, up to them. It's why I always do my test the way I do, and I always do them the same. I'm just glad arcane is listing the variables usesd.

I think we got a formula to get the numbers outside of amplifiers.  
It's no big deal

 

[arcane]

I will try to work in a little testing without amplifiers here and there.

 

I am doing some truly obscene things to this dominator build at the moment trying to see what I can do about the dead pets problem, while also getting greedy for a couple other things. 

[arcane]

Five more runs on new build Dark/Dark/Ice Dom T4 Musc Core / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Still Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

Ridiculous build I would not normally make. Traded nearly all my extra slotting in toggle end reduction/mitigation, and control slotting for both 6 slotted Spirit Ward and Enflame, as well as adding the 2 +pet resistance procs. Reliant on Ageless and so on.  

 

Examples of substantial sacrifices include: most of my toggles only being slotted with procs (LotG, other res/def/travel uniques); both AoE controls are just slotted with Cloud Senses and relying on Domination for potency; and I literally skipped Dark Grasp (1-slotted immobilize will be used on AV's).

 

Haunt was still typically dead most of the time but could often take an extra hit. Umbra Beast (with Spirit Ward and more resistance) on the other hand would only die maybe once per run and late enough that I'd be able to immediately resummon.

 

That being said... 

 

1:23

1:19

1:40

1:30

1:28

 

Average 1:28

 

 

EDIT: @Voltak

Edited July 1, 2022 by arcane

[Voltak]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

Five more runs on new build Dark/Dark/Ice Dom T4 Musc Core / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

 

Still Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

Ridiculous build I would not normally make. Traded nearly all my extra slotting in toggle end reduction/mitigation, and control slotting for both 6 slotted Spirit Ward and Enflame, as well as adding the 2 +pet resistance procs. Reliant on Ageless and so on.  

 

Examples of substantial sacrifices include: most of my toggles only being slotted with procs (LotG, other res/def/travel uniques); both AoE controls are just slotted with Cloud Senses and relying on Domination for potency; and I literally skipped Dark Grasp (1-slotted immobilize will be used on AV's).

 

Haunt was still typically dead most of the time but could often take an extra hit. Umbra Beast (with Spirit Ward and more resistance) on the other hand would only die maybe once per run and late enough that I'd be able to immediately resummon.

 

That being said... 

 

1:23

1:19

1:40

1:30

1:28

 

Average 1:28

 

 

EDIT: @Voltak

ONE MINUTE 28 seconds to kill the pylon !!

Anyone else wants to jump on the wagon of "dark assault is mediocre damage" now?  
Anyone still on it ?  

The test is just to help show that dark is not mediocre dmg in the least. 

There is no data to support it ever was mediocre. 

Dark Assault belongs with the very very best of assault sets at the top. 
No where near mediocre. 

[SomeGuy]

12 hours ago, arcane said:

Dark/Dark/Ice

 

 

I actually am curious about the build on this one. I theorized a Dark/Fire/Ice would be about this fast and was proven right, but I never considered Dark Assault. I'd love to see how Dark Assault is letting this happen, and your chain.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

I actually am curious about the build on this one. I theorized a Dark/Fire/Ice would be about this fast and was proven right, but I never considered Dark Assault. I'd love to see how Dark Assault is letting this happen, and your chain.

Smite/Midnight Grasp/Gloom/Moonbeam are all 4 very good DPA powers. Unlike /Fire, /Dark can slot the +damage proc in a long recharge heavy hitter (Midnight Grasp) which is a nice selling point. I also wonder if the -tohit helps with pet uptime but evidence is shaky on that one. Oh and with how aggressive I made this build I probably would’ve been killed a couple of the rounds were it not for Life Drain 🙂 I needed a lot of recharge bonuses to keep the Moonbeams coming so my slotting is

 

Smite 5 Crushing Impact / Glad Strike Proc

Midnight Grasp 5 Hecatomb / Ascendency Proc

Gloom 5 Decimation / Glad Jav Proc

Moonbeam 5 Apocalypse / Glad Jav Proc

 

All of the above except Moonbeam have the minimum possible recharge enhancement (whatever has recharge enhancement is attuned instead if boosted). Moonbeam needs the max recharge.

 

Sorry for not having mids on my macbook 😞 I’ll screenshot the build later. But yeah like I said I made some hefty sacrifices. It’s kind of making me want to make this a multi-build character. Because that is not how aggressive and squishy I’d normally build it were I not trying to push a boundary here.

Edited July 1, 2022 by arcane

[Maxzero]

19 minutes ago, arcane said:

Smite/Midnight Grasp/Gloom/Moonbeam are all 4 very good DPA powers. Unlike /Fire, /Dark can slot the +damage proc in a long recharge heavy hitter (Midnight Grasp) which is a nice selling point. I also wonder if the -tohit helps with pet uptime but evidence is shaky on that one. Oh and with how aggressive I made this build I probably would’ve been killed a couple of the rounds were it not for Life Drain 🙂 I needed a lot of recharge bonuses to keep the Moonbeams coming so my slotting is

 

Smite 5 Crushing Impact / Glad Strike Proc

Midnight Grasp 5 Hecatomb / Ascendency Proc

Gloom 5 Decimation / Glad Jav Proc

Moonbeam 5 Apocalypse / Glad Jav Proc

 

All of the above except Moonbeam have the minimum possible recharge enhancement (whatever has recharge enhancement is attuned instead if boosted). Moonbeam needs the max recharge.

 

Sorry for not having mids on my macbook 😞 I’ll screenshot the build later. But yeah like I said I made some hefty sacrifices. It’s kind of making me want to make this a multi-build character. Because that is not how aggressive and squishy I’d normally build it were I not trying to push a boundary here.

 

From my experience making melee builds I found max dps slotting (procs + frankenslotting) on my highest DPA attacks (ideally the entire ST chain) and then get the set bonuses on AoE/everything else tended to work best for max DPS.

 

Especially for a set like Dark which gets access to to an extra damage proc (especially useful for ST ranged powers which have limited proc options).

 

High global recharge and basically no slotted recharge in ST powers.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Maxzero

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Maxzero said:

 

From my experience making Tankers I found max dps slotting on my highest DPA attacks (ideally the entire ST chain) and then get the set bonuses on AoE/everything else tended to work best for max DPS.

 

Especially for a set like Dark which gets access to to an extra damage proc (especially useful for ST ranged powers which have limited proc options).

On Tankers etc I definitely would slot more procs, but Dom secondaries can be super hungry for recharge.

[Maxzero]

13 minutes ago, arcane said:

On Tankers etc I definitely would slot more procs, but Dom secondaries can be super hungry for recharge.

 

Yeah I edited a bit. 

 

Any recharge you slot into ST (and full sets always have it) is usually a DPS from lower proc chances.

 

Gloom/Moonbeam/Grasp with triple (or more) damage procs and some dam/end with a touch of Acc will wipe the floor compared to any set you put in there. Its a BIG difference.

 

5x lotg 5 x purple is already 87.5 recharge. +70 from Hasten is 157.5. Need around 20% more for perma Hasten which is enough global recharge to keep it out of your ST rotation slotting.

 

If you do need the set bonus put it in you fastest base recharge attacks since they tend benefit less from procs since their low DPA makes them a lower priority in a ST rotation.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Maxzero

[arcane]

Only 3 LotG’s now cuz Sorcery, but hey, Sorcery made the build faster 🙂 

 

But yes I completely agree in most cases. I tried that here though and it complicated the chain too much to have Moonbeam recharge any slower. So I kept the Crushing Impact and Decimation sets even though that’s rare for me.

Edited July 1, 2022 by arcane

[arcane]

Here is my ridiculous build

 

 

[SomeGuy]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

Here is my ridiculous build

 

 

 

lol I was just expecting a mid's file. What chain? For some reason, this actually has me inspired to possibly revisit my plant/fire/ice afk-perma-dom.

[arcane]

14 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

lol I was just expecting a mid's file. What chain? For some reason, this actually has me inspired to possibly revisit my plant/fire/ice afk-perma-dom.

Never been able to get mids to work on my macbook. I have spreadsheets 🙂 

 

Smite->Midnight Grasp->Gloom->Moonbeam.

[SomeGuy]

16 minutes ago, arcane said:

Smite->Midnight Grasp->Gloom->Moonbeam.

 

 

I never could get brave enough to do the melee thing with a ranged character. I KNOW it is absolutely viable play style, and I've seen some WILD results. I'll just sit around and hover and pew pew pew back here....

[Maxzero]

8 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

I never could get brave enough to do the melee thing with a ranged character. I KNOW it is absolutely viable play style, and I've seen some WILD results. I'll just sit around and hover and pew pew pew back here....

 

Yeah the blapper style has always been a turn off to me. 

 

Which is strange since I use range attacks in melee all the time on my Tanker/Brutes.

 

Midnight Grasp is almost the perfect proc power though. 15 base recharge +2 sec or so cast time. The magic number is 16. If the cast time + recharge time add up to 16 that's the maximum recharge you can have slotted in a power (if any) while still have 90% proc chance on 3.5PPM procs for ST.

 

When making my chains I simply find my highest DPA (which is usually Gloom whenever its present) attacks and work around that.

 

For example for Dark Assault I would look at Moonbeams CD which is 20 (you can fit around 25% recharge before affecting proc rate) so let's try 16 seconds and then try the max DPA I can fit in 16 seconds. Let's say MG. Which is 2.24 out of 16 leaving 14.76 and so on.

 

I would assume the perfect rotation (assuming min recharge and proc heavy) would something along the lines of:

 

Gloom/Smite/Moonbeam/Smite/Gloom/MG/Smite

 

You might need other fillers since I don't have all the cast times in front of me (Life Drain, Epics, etc). Maybe cut the odd Smite if you can. Those fillers is where you put your sets since you want recharge so you can weave them in between your heavy hitters while they recharge.

 

Anyway that's just how I approach it. Just about maximising DPA since no matter how powerful you are you can only use one ability at a time so you may as use your time as best you can.

 

Or just be a MM or Crabbermind and blow action economy out the window.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Maxzero

[arcane]

Same deal, new toon 

 

Five runs on Ill/Cold/Mako Troller T4 Musc Core / Degen Core / Pyronic Core / Ageless Core / Assault Radial

Had Offense, Defense, and Survival Amplifiers

 

1:21

1:18

1:17

1:08

1:08

 

Average 1:14