Blaster: Fast-snipe bug, range buff bug

[betaflex1]

Blaster build: Archery/Ninja

I gave the new Snipe design (for Archery: Ranged Shot) a test run around Peregrine Island (near Portal Corps) for foes that can actually survive my Blaster's hits. After testing on multiple Circle of Thorns, utilizing my Hold on LTs to provide a stationary target: Ranged Shot no longer gives its range boost. Also, is always fast-snipe, contrary to requiring Experienced Marksman's 'proc' to make it fast-snipe.

Prior to today's patch: Ranged Shot gave a damage boost and a very significant range boost when it successfully hits. Also, could not be fast-snipe without +22% ToHit bonus.

 

Based on the patch notes, the range bonus from using Ranged Shot should still work and the fast-snipe should require the new Experienced Marksman proc for fast-sniping in combat. However, field testing shows this is not the case.

[Trickshooter]

I don't know about the +Range, because I honestly didn't know that was a thing on Blaster snipes. If I had to guess, maybe it was originally added as a way to improve snipes, and now it's unnecessary so it was removed? Either a bug or a missing patch note, I guess.

 

Regarding Fast/Slow snipe, you're misunderstanding the patch notes, I think. If you've been out of combat for 8 seconds, your snipe will be the higher-damage slow version; if you've been in combat in the last 8 seconds, your snipe will be the lower-damage fast version. +ToHit now just increases the base damage of the fast version. The Experienced Marksman proc makes it so that your snipe will always be the fast version, even out of combat.

[Jaguaratron]

Confirmed, on "regular" snipe  you get the 50% range bonus as you used to, with new "in combat" fast snipe (when yellow ring is around snipe ability) you no longer get the range bonus.

 

Dont know if its a bug or a missing patch note.

 

*edit* tested with Assault Rifle

Edited August 27, 2019 by Jaguaratron

[betaflex1]

8 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

I don't know about the +Range, because I honestly didn't know that was a thing on Blaster snipes. If I had to guess, maybe it was originally added as a way to improve snipes, and now it's unnecessary so it was removed? Either a bug or a missing patch note, I guess.

 

Regarding Fast/Slow snipe, you're misunderstanding the patch notes, I think. If you've been out of combat for 8 seconds, your snipe will be the higher-damage slow version; if you've been in combat in the last 8 seconds, your snipe will be the lower-damage fast version. +ToHit now just increases the base damage of the fast version. The Experienced Marksman proc makes it so that your snipe will always be the fast version, even out of combat.

I definitely read the patch notes about the new snipe mechanics regarding in-combat/out-of-combat. I just tested Ranged Shot in RWZ, without using the Experienced Marksman proc, and after initiating combat I was still watching Ranged Shot fire off as a fast snipe rather than reverting to slow snipe. It should've reverted to slow snipe after I initiated combat, but that wasn't the case.

[BillyMailman]

You're absolutely misreading the patch notes, then. Once in-combat, all snipes now switch to the fast version until you're out of combat. The Experienced Marksman IO is just to force fast mode even for the first attack in a fight.

Per the patch notes:

Quote

• The snipe will be fast if you have attacked or been attacked in the last 8 seconds; this is the same time as Stalker's Hide.

The Experienced Marksman thing is IIRC mostly for PvP, where people were using the fast version of the snipes as an opener, and the new combat-based mechanic would have been a fairly hard nerf.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by BillyMailman

[Dan Petro]

I don't know if there was any changes, but If I remember right it was mentioned in the patch notes that the 50% range bonus was going to be removed from the fast snipe powers.  So I believe it is working as intended.   From a balance perspective, it makes good sense that the fast version acts just like a normal attack where as the slow version gives you the very potent (boost range in EM is 59%) range buff.   

[betaflex1]

Ah. In that case I definitely misunderstood the patch notes, and if the range buff removal associated w/ fast snipe was intended then that makes sense. Basically have to think of snipe as the Assassin Strike now, unless slotted to always be fast.

[Captain Powerhouse]

This should be back in next patch.

[Rathulfr]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

This should be back in next patch.

What should be in the next patch?  AFAICT, the OP was misunderstanding how the new snipe works, and reported that as a problem (when there isn't a problem). 

 

Is there a problem with the new snipe?

[Captain Powerhouse]

The +range will be back for Blasters on all versions of snipe. That should had made it back in at some point during the iteration process.

[eustace]

What about the Fast Snipe buff from that particular piece of the Experienced Marksman set?

I just slotted the full set for the first time, today, in a 50 Psi/Rad corruptor, and, effectively, all this enhancement does is permanently nerf snipe damage. 

Without that specific enhancement, you have the choice of opening with your snipe (interruptible) for full damage, or using it once combat has started (non-interruptible) for less damage.  

With it, all snipes are always the latter version. 

Was this always the case with this enhancement, even before the patch changes, or did the patch changes leave a little rift where this enhancement is massively less desirable?

Edited May 3, 2020 by eustace

[macskull]

That's always been the case.

[eustace]

Thanks for the reply.  

Hopefully it gets fixed, eventually. 

[macskull]

15 hours ago, eustace said:

Thanks for the reply.  

Hopefully it gets fixed, eventually. 

It's not broken. There are two versions of every snipe power - fast snipe and slow snipe, and the game uses your combat status to determine which to use. The Experienced Marksman proc just tells the game to always redirect to the fast snipe version.

 

I'm not sure I'd consider it a "nerf" since a high-damage fast-animating power that is always usable is better than a higher-damage slow-animating power with an interrupt time that can only be used as an opening attack. You can't get it both ways.

[Rathulfr]

56 minutes ago, macskull said:

I'm not sure I'd consider it a "nerf" since a high-damage fast-animating power that is always usable is better than a higher-damage slow-animating power with an interrupt time that can only be used as an opening attack. You can't get it both ways.

This is incorrect.  The slow snipe is always higher damage than the quick snipe.  I can always one-shot minions and often one-shot lieutenants with slow snipe.  I can sometimes one-shot minions and never one-shot lieutenants with quick snipe.  I can reproduce this on Energy, Archery, and Assault Rifle Blasters (those are the ones I've played recently).  And yes, this is with Executioner's Contract 6-slotted (for the ranged defense bonus).

 

The edited excerpt below is from my combat log, against even-con (white) minions.  The first set of damage is slow snipe, the second set is quick snipe.  Note the first set is marked with the [SNIPER SHOT] tag, while the second set is not.

 

You start Sniper Blast.
You activated the Sniper Blast power.
HIT Infantry! Your Sniper Blast power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 40.90.
Your Sniper Blast helps you focus your abilities on your target, increasing your range for a short time!
You hit Infantry with your Sniper Blast for 298.29 points of Smashing damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Infantry with your Sniper Blast for 596.59 points of Energy damage.
You knock Infantry off their feet with your Sniper Blast!
You Stun Infantry with your Executioners Contract: Disorient Bonus.
You gain 6,772 experience and 3,160 influence.
Sniper Blast is recharged.
You activated the Sniper Blast power.
HIT Advanced Drone! Your Sniper Blast power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 39.13.
Your Sniper Blast helps you focus your abilities on your target, increasing your range for a short time!
You hit Advanced Drone with your Sniper Blast for 217.44 points of Smashing damage.
You hit Advanced Drone with your Sniper Blast for 422.81 points of Energy damage.
You gain 5,644 experience and 2,633 influence.
Sniper Blast is recharged.

 

I found another pair of the same targets, and reversed their order to see if I got different results.  This time I slow-sniped the Advanced Drone [SNIPER SHOT], and then quick-sniped the Infantry.  You can see the difference in damage is even greater.

 

You start Sniper Blast.
You activated the Sniper Blast power.
HIT Advanced Drone! Your Sniper Blast power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 56.92.
Your Sniper Blast helps you focus your abilities on your target, increasing your range for a short time!
You hit Advanced Drone with your Sniper Blast for 447.44 points of Smashing damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Advanced Drone with your Sniper Blast for 745.74 points of Energy damage.
You knock Advanced Drone off their feet with your Sniper Blast!
You Stun Advanced Drone with your Executioners Contract: Disorient Bonus.
You gain 5,644 experience and 2,633 influence.
Sniper Blast is recharged.
You activated the Sniper Blast power.
HIT Infantry! Your Sniper Blast power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 25.01.
Your Sniper Blast helps you focus your abilities on your target, increasing your range for a short time!
You hit Infantry with your Sniper Blast for 144.96 points of Smashing damage.
You hit Infantry with your Sniper Blast for 338.24 points of Energy damage.
You Stun Infantry with your Executioners Contract: Disorient Bonus.
You gain 6,772 experience and 3,160 influence.
Sniper Blast is recharged.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rathulfr

[macskull]

Yes, I know the slow snipe version does more damage, my point was that the fast snipe with no interrupt is probably more useful save for problem targets and in that case why slot the fast snipe IO in the first place? The poster I was replying to seems to think the IO should trigger fast snipe but with slow snipe damage which makes zero sense from a balance persepective, hence my "can't have it both ways" comment.

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

Yes, I know the slow snipe version does more damage, my point was that the fast snipe with no interrupt is probably more useful save for problem targets and in that case why slot the fast snipe IO in the first place? The poster I was replying to seems to think the IO should trigger fast snipe but with slow snipe damage which makes zero sense from a balance persepective, hence my "can't have it both ways" comment.

Oh, I see what you mean now: sorry I misunderstood.

[eustace]

I'm implying that the enhancement (a not-so-common PVP enhancement) is now far less useful, to the point of being irrelevant.  

 

Here's the situation, as I see it: 

 

Before snipe changes:

• No Fast Snipe enhancement
  • Full damage
  • Interruptible
• Fast Snipe enhancement
  • Less damage (my corruptor shot went from something like 550 down to 290)
  • Not interruptible

After snipe changes

• No Fast Snipe enhancement 
  • Your situational choice of two applications, at all times
    • Normal
      • Full damage
      • Interruptible
    • Fast
      • Less damage
      • Not interruptible
• Fast Snipe enhancement
  • Always this way, no choice
    • Less damage
    • Not interruptible

 

Before the snipe changes, the enhancement provided you a different option, not otherwise available - lose something (damage), gain something (not interruptible, fast cast).  You could decide if that was right for you, and if it was, spend the time/inf to obtain it.  

After the snipe changes, all the enhancement does is completely remove the tactical choice of slow/stronger vs fast/weaker. 

 

This is why I allude to it needing to be "fixed."

I think it should either have the fast snipe buff replaced with something else, or else change the recipe to a purple and let it bestow the "having it both ways" scenario being maligned, where you get full damage fast snipe all the time (maybe rebalance the bonuses accordingly, and/or balance the effect between PVE/PVP).  

[eustace]

To clarify, I keep using the term "enhancement" when I'm really focusing on the Fast Snipe "buff" part of that enhancement.  

[macskull]

19 hours ago, eustace said:

stuff

So I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here with:

1. When the Experienced Marksman set was added to the game
2. How the current snipe mechanics work
3. How snipe mechanics used to work

Snipe attacks pre-change (tohit-based):

• Always fast snipe if you had >22% tohit bonus, with the fast snipe being a lower, fixed damage
• Always slow snipe if you didn't, with slow snipe being a higher, fixed damage
• Experienced Marksman IO made no difference because it literally didn't exist

Snipe attacks post-change (combat status-based):

• Fast snipe if you've been in combat within the last 8 seconds, with the fast snipe being a lower damage attack but its damage scales based on your tohit with the maximum boost provided at >22%
• Slow snipe if you haven't been in combat within the last 8 seconds, regardless of your tohit bonus, with slow snipe being a higher, fixed damage
• Always fast snipe if you have the Experienced Marksman IO

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by macskull

[eustace]

Looks like you're probably correct about the misunderstanding. 

I forgot about that interim phase - between "only normal snipe" phase and current "your choice of normal or fast snipe" phase - where it was fast if you had high enough To-Hit.  

And I thought that the EM enhancement in question existed back in "only normal snipe" phase. 

This is why I saw it as an utter step backward to work toward getting an enhancement, only to permanently lose tactical choice and damage. 

But if that EM enhancement now essentially represents the 1-slot way of going back to that interim "To Hit" phase, then I guess it still has a purpose.  

I'd still argue that it's a decision nobody would want to make, but maybe that's just the limits of my imagination.  I mean if people were willing to slot the hell out of To Hit to get to that point before (or always take /dev, or a pool with the right +Acc buff), I guess the same crowd will happily apply the same effect with a single enhance.  

 

Last question, if you know... 

Does snipe damage still scale with ToHit if you use the EM IO, or do you always just get the low-end fast snipe damage?

[macskull]

The IO doesn't change the way fast snipe works, it just tells the game to always use the fast snipe version, complete with damage bonus from extra tohit.

[eustace]

Cool.  I truly appreciate you taking the time to explain.