Jeuraud

Beasts as well. It has Knockdowns, -Acc, and -Def, and Hawks is just fun to watch: I often find myself watching it finish it's attack (DOT), instead of continuing on with my attack chain. I'm not sure what the Devs were thinking with the early MM sets, because their attacks are mostly a waste of space. I agree with Coyote, but I would go with 2 Pets. Two of the whip attacks are melee so your going to be in the scrum... always, if you choose to focus on the attacks. Two pets in Defend would give you full Bodyguard. That 50% absorb makes things a lot easier on your MM, and your Pets add a bit of Damage, AoE, and Distraction, which also makes things easier on the MM. I key on the Lt. and let my 2 Pets pick up the minions if they get pulled. The Heal from my Secondary is part of my attack chain, and I have Follow/Defend keybound, and have trained myself to pound the hells out of it when the Pets go after a runner; though with Demons they take a few steps and then their range attack pops, which causes them to stop and blast the runner. Now I'm talking as a Soloer Altaholic, who has not gotten out of the upper teens since I started CoHH, because I keep trying something else. If you group all the time then you might not need the Pets, or find that just 1 or 2 Pets at the upper levels are not viable. when you run solo.

I see the announcements all the time, but nothing pops. The Sky turns red, the street MOBs disappear, and nothing else happens with the Zombies. With the Rikti, the ships pass over and drop bombs and one-shots your pets, but nothing else happens either. No Zombies or Rikti appear. This was a group event where you did not have to group, kind of like GW2, but you could still have a blast, and if you grouped it was even more fun. I've been part of a Zombie/Rikti PUG that continued on to PUG the zone in CoHV, not once have I seen this happen in CoHH. Note, I run on redside, and I'm an Altaholic and my highest charter is 16... or was 16.

Back off the HC Devs, they are Gamers just like the rest of us, and they don't answer to you, and don't have to answer you. They are not selling you a product, they are providing you a place to play CoH, for free. Yet the HC Devs have stated numerous times in this thread that the 'Fix' to Rage was not a fix directed at Rage, and have stated that there is interest in Rage, so they are willing to talk with us about CoHH and their changes. From what I've seen so far their changes are pretty positive, and I would not be surprised to find out that there are some CoHV Devs hidden in their group. You don't like what the HC Devs have done, then state it, along with potential fixes. Argue with the rest of us, that's fine, hells argue with the CoHH Devs, but you don't disrespect them. If it's bad enough, walk, there are supposed to be other CoH groups out there; hells, make your own little CoH playground. Or was this show of disrespect, your words as you were walking out of the CoHH door? Well you know what they say about doors and backsides. This comes from a veteran player who does not give a fuck about Rage, and never has. A veteran player who does have an opinion about the people who are crying, now that they have to pay the price that the description says they have to pay. A veteran player who has read 23 pages of crying, and chosen not to say anything... up till now. Note, I think that a mix of Resistance and Defense Debuff would be fair.

Again with this BS about the MM being the Redside meatshield/Tank. You know what I find when I log in and go to create a new character and press Tank Playstyle and then go to Archetype, I find Brute, not MM. When I look at the Brutes numbers for survival and melee they are in between the Scrapper and the Tank, because it was made to go either way, depending on power choices and slotting. This is the fricken official description of the Brute.

This is not true; the CoH Devs designed the Brute to fill the Tank/Scrapper rolls on Redside. Also before CoV came out; hells, pretty much right after CoH came out, the players found that they did not need a Tank. The CoH Devs had broken the Trinity, and most of us players were happy with that. This is CoH not some other MMO, and you Tank proponents need to quit arguing for the Trinity role that a Tank fills within a Trinity, because the Trinity is not going to happen in CoH. What I'm gathering from this thread is you all are trying to make the Tank into some type of Support/Melee. The problem I see is that you are trying to keep your heavy armor at the same time getting Support abilities through your inherent. I don't see that happening, but I could support the Tank being turned into a true Support/Melee. and then having a true roll in the group... Buffs/Debuffs & Heals on the front line. Otherwise the Tank is going to have the same issue it had when it stepped out of the CoH box.

The Tanker would not have been if the CoH Devs had followed the standard Trinity model, but they didn't. They gave Support, Buffs and Debuffs that where more powerful then the norm, and the ability to stack them. They gave CCrs the ability to lock down more then one MOB at a time, for more than a few seconds. I don't think the Devs intentionally broke the Trinity, but in making all of the ATs... Super, they did, and I feel CoH is a better game for it. But your right in a way, the Tank did not fit in CoH right out of the box. This Tanker/Brute argument is no different than the Tank/Scrapper arguments of old (I'm getting deja vu from this thread.), because as long as you have Buffs, Debuffs, and CCs that work more then 'kind-of' you don't need a Tanker/Brute in the group. The only way to fix that is to tweak back the Buffs, Debuffs, and CCs to the 'kind-of' work level, and I do not believe you Tanks want to go there. I have vague memories of that being suggested and the shit storms it created.

Are you saying that with this change multiple Tanks with their -Res T1 attacks would add value to a group, because of their -Res? There are 11 Support sets with -Res in them and 4 ATs that can use them. Within these sets are 3 Toggles and 6 AoEs, and the 3 Toggles have Single Target -Res as well. If you were to take all 8 team members from this group, in the opening seconds they can put down 278.75% -Res (Non Defender numbers.), for a minimum of 30 sec, 188.75% not requiring To-Hit. Three of the ATs have attack sets that can do -Res as well. Lets say we have a Demon MM who uses one attack, 9.35% -Res, and 5 Sonic attackers with 2 attacks at 15% -Res each, that can be easily done in 10 sec, and 2 Controllers with no -Res Attacks. After the opening you can add another 84.35% -Res that requires To-Hit (1 MM -Res + 5 -Res Attacks), which equals 353.75% -Res, and a few seconds later another 75% -Res that requires To-Hit (5 Stackable -Res Attacks), for a total of 438.1% -Res. 438.1% -Res within the first ten seconds easy. I generated more than four times the -Res, and non of these needed to use their T1 Attack to generate the -Res from the attack. We weren't plinking at the MOB this first ten seconds, we were locking it down and tearing it a new asshole. I'm unclear how replacing a couple of members of the above group with a couple of Tanks doing their T1 attack would add value to the group.

You just walked yourself in circles. Profit: Here's a fix for tanks because they aren't fun to play and there's no real reason to play them over Brutes. Here's some changes I'm suggesting. You: My issue with tanks is that they aren't fun to play. And that they need changes. At this point, I'm wondering if you even read what you're replying to. I read it, then read it again before I made my reply, and I'm pretty sure I read it again before I posted my reply, and I just read it again. You know whats not in the OPs statement... the word 'Fun' or anything about fun. It's all about numbers, and I'm going to go with Leo and say BFD, and I'm going to stick with my first statement about not accepting or kicking; it's Un-CoH, and something someone from another MMO would do, and is totally unnecessary in CoH. I don't play a Tank because it's numbers can be matched by a Brute or a Scrapper using IOs and the proper build, again BFD. Or because somebody might not want me in their group; there is no way in hells that I would play in this persons group. I don't play a Tank because it's fricken boring, and the OPs suggestions do not answer the boring game-play aspect of the Tank. If there is something in the OPs post about 'Fun' then post it, maybe I missed it in my multiple readings. It's sure as hells not impossible. Yep, I would say your correct for me. I am not a numbers cruncher or a Min/Maxer; 'a', above does not sound like fun to me, and I'm having a hard time viewing it as fun. I happen to like Fury... in solo, it's its own mini game. In-group the Brute needs to ignore it or drive the group crazy. The question is; What is the OP trying to fix with their proposal! Are they trying to tweak the numbers? Or are they trying to make the Tank more appealing to more gamers?

How is this any different than the Tank/Scrapper issue before IOs and Brutes were a thing? In-group, Scrappers were good enough for 99.9% of the game. Hells, once people started learning CoH's group dynamics, 'no Melees at all', performed way better than 'good enough'. CoH was unique in that it needed no Trinity. Has this changed with the addition of IOs and Incarnates? The team leader who would bypass a Tank, to wait on a Brute, is an ignorant, who thinks they are playing (Name any other MMO). The team leader who would kick a Tank for a Brute, is a team leader I would 'note', and then I would drop from their group. The thing is, I'm not sure what your issue is. My issue with the Tank is that it was fricken boring to play. Brutes were the Devs answer to how boring a Tank was to play. Because unless you drastically change the Tanks game-play there is no answer to the Tank's issue, as I see it... that there are other ATs that can fill their roll 'good enough', and are way more fun to play. Note, I do not see the OPs fixes, fixing the fun factor

Well at least you know their not bringing back help, which sometimes was big brother. Group wipes and Trains, because of Runners, happened all the time in EQ and DAoC. In CoH runners are mostly an annoyance. WoW of course simplified things, and in the process dumbed things down. But... if your Vid is your proof, then I would say that the MOB was not a runner. A runner goes, and goes, and goes, and eventually comes strolling back to their spawn point. This MOB was playing tactically, forcing you to play tactically, and being you were a Solo MM, you did not have all the tools in your group you needed to take on this TF Purple Boss. I see no reason why a CoH TF should be dumbed down, just so someone can solo what is group content.

Seems to me you have forgotten something with this AT... Solo. In Solo there are no back lines, and you will often have MOBs close to you, especially with a low damage secondary. Your Inherent is built totally for grouping, it serves no function at all in Solo. Side note The Inherent is very complicated, and though these might be needed to keep the Bastion from dying from always being in Bodyguard mode, I think they would be a nightmare to code.

This is what people are talking about. Now if your Melee, I'm not sure how much value this adds, but if your one of the non-melee ATs, say a Corrupter, but you want to play in Melee then I can see how valuable they can be. This new Fighting Pool definitely beats the old one.

The MMs Secondary is all about 'useful team utilities'; why would you rather use your pet then use your Secondary?

I'm not familiar with that game, but yeah, that looks pretty paladin-ish. How do they deal with the action economy issue? (i.e., how does the class mix healing with attacks without being terrible at both?) For me, Paladin-ish means a heavy armor wearer, who has spell or spell like abilities. The Disciple is a medium armor wearer, which is how I see the Interceptor. The heals, buffs, and debuffs are PBAoE built into the attacks. They support the front line heavies by getting up there with them, but being they wear medium armor they do not want to pull aggro from the heavies. Something to note, when I say 'do not want to pull aggro', I'm not talking about one or even two MOBs, I'm talking about pulling the group or even most of the group. How well they do at upper levels I've no clue, both because I'm an Altaholic, and I'm not willing to play an MMO that pretty much forces me to group.

Yeah, it can be beautiful to see. Of course sometimes you got that crit and spent the next three seconds beating on a arrested/dead MOB. Or sometimes you activated SM and wished you hadn't, because you want to activate your 'Oh Shit' power, or run away. This is made even worse if Murphy decided to mess with you and you missed, and are flailing away as your HP plunges to 0. My current Altaholic trend is MM Beasts, using Swarm and Hawk in melee, with my Wolves in bodyguard. I'm having a blast with it, trying different secondaries. I'm not saying don't use SM, I'm just saying it's not the heavy hitter it appears to be and that it needs to be and is a Cone AoE. And when I say need, I mean hit at least 2 MOBs every time you activate it, and every once in a while hit the max number that it is supposedly designed for.

No it doesn't compare. It's better. Smite does one hit of damage. Shadow Maul does four. I just tested this on a couple of random mobs and one activation of Smite was doing 2/3 of the damage of one activation of Shadow Maul against a single enemy. Also for what it's worth I also managed to hit two targets more than once when fighting a group. You asked for facts. There's your facts. Shadow Maul does more damage than Smite, and if you make the effort to line up your attacks you can double that damage (or more) by hitting multiple targets. I used DPA for a reason. It's average damage divided by actuation time. In the time that SM is flailing away I could activate Smite, and possible two other attacks. Add recharge reduction and Smite has the potential to hit twice, with another fast attack in between, while SW is flailing away at the same activation time. Also when Smite misses I can pretty much immediately go to another attack, while when SM misses you are locked into its flailing away at nothing for over three seconds. Now add the time your moving around trying to get that two shot. Also lets talk about the debuff; they both have a stackable 5.63 To Hit Debuff that last for 10 sec. In this lowb build or if I was a Brute, I would have Shadow Punch as well. With the P2W E's I could make SP-S-SP in the time that SM is flailing away, at level 3. In that time frame I just put out a 16.89 debuff, compared to SM's 5.63 debuff. None of what I'm stating is new info. SM has been talked about since CoH released.

I don't think that is their job though. If an AoE Cone's job is not to do AoE, then what is it's Job? Why should I be spending a power choice and slots on an AoE Cone that is not really for AoE? Well it depends on the cone. The melee cones with a large 180degree radius are clearly intended for AoE damage but the ones with narrow cones (19, 30 or 45 degrees) are more like single target attacks that can occasionally hit a second target. They generally have their damage balanced closer to a single target attack than an AoE attack. In the Scrapper set the only Melee Cone with a 180 was Axe's Pendulum, there are one each at 130 in Broadsword and Katana. Something to note is even at the larger arc they are still set to 5 max, just like every other short melee cone. As for damage lets look at Dark. Smite Shadow Maul DPA 13.95 7.2 Act .97 3.07 Rech 6.00 8.00 End 6.86 8.53 So if SM is not made for AoE, then what is it made for, because it sure as hells does not compare to Smite for single target. Until someone brings some facts to this argument, instead of opinion, I will continue to believe that an AoE Cone's job is to do AoE, just like in every other RPG I have played. And if AoE Cones are consistently not doing AoE then they are broken, and need fixing.

Fortunately, there's a way to favorably resolve that issue ... it's called "slotting Accuracy enhancements" with a side order to ToHit Buffing from Tactics. Beyond that, you're on your own. You can't actually resolve the issue, because no mater how many Accuracy Enhancements, or To Hit buffs you get, you can never go above 95, and CoH's RNG is wonkey, there was a reason the Streakbreaker was put into the early CoH. Or did the CoHH Devs fix the RNG, or make it so you can go above 95?

I don't think that is their job though. If an AoE Cone's job is not to do AoE, then what is it's Job? Why should I be spending a power choice and slots on an AoE Cone that is not really for AoE?

It wouldn't, but it would make those melee attacks a lot more powerful. Yes, it is hard to hit multiple targets with Shadow Maul/Flurry/Sands of Mu (the only way I reliably hit multiple targets unless I'm knee deep in enemies is if there's a mob standing more or less directly behind my target) but I'd as soon not see a wider cone balanced by a decrease in their damage or an increase in recharge time or end cost, and to widen it without doing one or more of those things is just power creep for the sake of it. Is it power creep? Because to me they are not doing the job they were created for, AoE. Sure SM/SoM are heavy hitters, but they are also DoTs, and have long activation times that keep you locked up, and consistently do not hit more than one MOB. I cant remember the number of times my characters have stood there swinging away at One dead/arrested MOB, while others are pounding on them. Most people opt out of SM because consistently hitting more than one MOB is the whole point of an AoE, and if it's going to consistently not to do its job then there is no point in having it. You can slot Smite for damage and refresh, there is nothing you can do about the activation time of SM, nor little about it consistently hitting only one MOB. I'm not sure why everybody thinks that opening up the cones will make them OP because there is another factor that limits all AoEs; it's max number. Every Cone AoE that I've looked at had a lower number than Circular AoEs, and that includes Spines. A Circular AoE can consistently get it's max number, while a Cone AoE, pretty much never gets its max number. A Circular AoE is also a lot easier to use, than a Cone AoE. I'm not asking for a Buff to Cones, I'm asking for them to do their job, AoE. Now if you all think they are doing their job, AoE, then there's not much else for me to say, because I'll never agree with that.

There is a difference between someone disagreeing, and someone attacking. The first reply was just an attack (Giving nothing of value.), and not just attacking my idea, but me personally. The rest of the replies are disagreements, giving me some things to think about (Even the ones that have some attack in them.).

Anyways I thought I had made it fairly clear that I had been screwing up my math, and had fixed my screwup, but, and of course there is a but, math is not really important for Sands/Shadow Maul. It's also not very important for Beast's Ravens when your up close to the MOBs, because even though it's a 40ft cone, it's a 30 degree arc (I've yet to see a 120 degree arc.), and all the cone target area beyond the MOB group is of no value if there is nothing out there to hit. It's the side to side target area that is important when your in the scrum, and the closer you get to the MOBs the less target area you have. And of course the smaller the arc, the smaller the target area. As mentioned before it's basic geometry. I pulled Ravens from my chain, because when I am in the scrum it has the same problem as Sands/Shadow Maul, and in the scrum is how I'm choosing to play my Beasts MM. Now if you stand in back, well away from the MOBs, then yeah using the right formula can make a difference for the cones. Well as long as you have a good eye for angles. I'm thinking now that the only thing that will really fix cones in melee is making them 180. How much would this change range combat?

FYI, the mez protection part of Increase Density is not AoE, only the Smashing resistance, AFAIK. Well this is discouraging; Kin is already a 'Meh' set to run, being graphically boring, and requiring To Hit with pretty much any power that is useful to the Kin, including the one That Shall Not Be Named.

I fricken hate them in CoH, unlike WildStar I have to guess as to whether my target is in my cone, and I really suck at guessing. Also not having taken geometry I think I was reading the arc degree wrong. I used to think that when it said an arc degree that it meant that many degrees from my center; a 45 deg arc, is 45 deg to my left and 45 deg to my right. I now believe that it's the measurement of the full arc, and maybe my guessing will be better now, but I'm still guessing. Another problem with a cone is the closer you are to your target the less cone area you have (This was real easy to see in WildStar.). This is the reason that targets have to be pretty much in line to hit more than one with Sands/Shadow Maul, which is a 7ft long, 45 deg arc. This works the same for any other cone attack, whether range or melee, if your in melee range. My suggestion for Cone Powers is to double the Arc degree, so that 45 deg, is 45 to my left and 45 to my right. Or better yet just open them up to 180, and let the range and numbers affected, be the limiting factors, well that and them having to be in front of you.

As far as D&D classes go, my mental template is the Marshal, but that's less iconically recognized. My image of the Interceptor is the Vanguard Disciple. A fun class to play, I just did not like how group focused Vanguard was.