Neiska

Sure, and I got no issue with that. But the how/way some "ask" is worse than people conversating in the lfg channel in the first place. I have seen some rather aggressive "requests" that I will not repeat here. "How" you communicate is just as important as the "what" you communicate. But someone going "ZOMG STOP TALKING IN LFG" or worse makes me eyeroll more than 2 people chatting about something in the channel.

Hello @provoked I will be happy to help you but I am at work right now and can't post a build, but here's a few tidbits to help you out. The good news - Robots/Time can be quite strong even on a budget. Especially if you take Mace epic pool and get power boost, as using that before Farsight adds roughly 16% to your DEF. The bad news - Robots is a late bloomer, you will feel hobbled until 32, when you get your t3 robots missile attack which counts for roughly 80% of your total damage. So expect to play defensively until then. My other personal complaint about /Time is the lack of any END tools, but that's not a dealbraker. /Time is still top teir for MMs, it just means you are more reliant on blue inspirations or ageless. But I will make a SO build for you when I get home, so stay tuned.

Yes, that's precisely how a closed/contained system works. Because we don't have things such as EBITA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization), GAAP, EPS. Moreover, you are using a form of Amalgamation to suggest artificial outside depreciation of net revenue, in order to combat a hypothetical inflation that hasn't even happened. The closest thing we have would be a Bull Market, that is effectively a stock market that can be applied to anything that can be traded. You are posing a correlation coefficient where there is none. For example, you suggest an artificial ceiling where there isn't one. A person can earn as much money as they desire, the only pacing mechanism is time. The only "ceiling" that exists, is the limit cap on individual prices, but not a character's net worth. They might be able to hold only a certain amount but keep unlimited in supply in unopened mail to themselves. Moreover, there is a key factor in inflation that you neglect to even mention - interest. There is "zero" interest in the game market, which with time, is one of the fundamental pillars that control both inflation and deflation. And without interest, that pretty much blows your entire argument out of the water. What we have is stock, supply, and the amount of money people have. No, it costs 7 million, because that is the lowest price someone is willing to sell them for at the time you pulled that from the air. Tomorrow someone might decide to sell for 3 million, or 2 million. There is wide variance. But here is a real-world example - If people are paying higher prices, then you increase the supply to compensate. You don't cut everyone's wages, which is what you are effectively suggesting. You increase the supply until the demand and supply reach an equilibrium. You need "more" farmers and producers, not "less." Another real-world example would be new technology. Something brand new and off the market is expensive, because there are only so many of them. The amount of money in the market where they are doesn't matter, 10 million or 100 billion, the company is going to charge whatever it likes for that new thing that only they can provide, and if people want it, then they "have" to pay it. Until the supply catches up to where everyone can afford one, assuming no one holds a monopoly on them. Such as when the PS5's first came out. I can guarantee you if all farming stopped, that in a matter of time prices would reach sky high because the amount that people find patrolling, doing normal actives, would be woefully inadequate to meet the demand. Though I do suppose that some demand would go down as some players would quit over such a drastic decision, so there is that. And what you are suggesting, lowering the amount of that people earn, would not cause prices to go down as that would not change the supply, nor the demand. It would in fact simply increase the amount of time/farming required to buy the same things they did before, which would compound the problem. Moreover, it would only widen the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" as the "haves" can already likely afford whatever they wish already, and the "have nots" who can't currently afford things now, will be in even worse straights and have to earn more effective buying power to purchase what they need. "That's" how actual markets work, Dunning Kruger.

You know, the only response to that would be "no you are" but that would give you more credit than you merit. Regarding your other post. That isn't how economies work at all. You are only taking one side into account - the demand. You aren't even considering supply into account, or the rate of consumption, or the withdraw of currency from the market, and several other factors. You are trying to make it sound as if - less currency = good, to keep prices down. No, that isn't what keeps pricing down, regardless of how much money is there, is irrelevant. It's how much stock there is, vs the need for it. In our case, it's how much is being put up for auction, vs how much demand for it. Here, a screenshot of an IO used on very nearly every build - I would say that is sitting at a pretty good price. Now on live, others said that was going for 10 times that. NOT a good price I would say. And for example, you remove the supply out of the equation, in this case farmers, being the main supply, the number of these on the market will drop sharply, leading to an increase in price, regardless of how much money is in the market or how much people have. It wouldn't matter if someone has 10 million or 2 billion, the rarity of materials goods or services balanced against the demand for them, is what controls pricing. NOT the amount of money in the pool. If there is only one of these? Lots of money to buy. If there is a lot of them? Not much money to buy. Too many of them? Very cheap to buy. Its Supply vs Demand. The "rate of earnings" you describe is used to calculate things like Interest, not pricing. Thanks for playing though.

"I have said elsewhere blah blah blah. No I won't say how. Just trust me. Blah." Who is the hyperbolic one here, really? Random Bullshit Go!

No, you stated some numbers you completely made up, failed to prove the math, handwaved math proving you wrong, and now are playing semantical word games. Your argument literally is - "It is possible to get X amount if I run 3 different accounts doing 3 different things and combine my efforts. Thus, it should be nerfed, and screw over the 99% of people who do not play that extreme. No, I won't prove it. You just have to trust me." That is like saying we should outlaw owning a car because there are drunk drivers. Your math, nor suggestion, doesn't hold water.

Orly? You tried to insinuate that it is possible to both farm a character from 1 to 50 and make 1 billion in 5 hours. Which has been proven to be BS. You can get to level 50 in 5 hours yes. And you can make 1 billion, if you use 3 separate farmers on 3 separate maps. But suggesting you take 1 alt, and 1 active farmer, on the same map, and making both level 50 and 1 billion in 5 hours is entirely false. The only way that is possible is using other outside AFK farmers to artificially boost your INF to make that possible, which shouldn't even be in the equation. Now if you don't mind, stop citing things you made up, and go "I cited stuff elsewhere, my reputation says so" And let's let it rest as GM Widow asks. Yes?

I guess I am far better at making moneys than leveling alts then! 😆 I am not disbelieving; I am surprised honestly. What map I run usually depends on what I am playing. For my Robot MM team, I run the Asteroid. For my Demon MM team, I run Night at the Movies. If I am leveling an alt, I play my two savage/bio brutes with my alt in the background, usually on the asteroid map. I usually do it for an hour or so before I get bored and take a break. I am used to MM farming so much that Tank or Brute farming is a snoozefest by comparison, I can only do it for so long before I get sleepy and do something else. Then come back to the alt at a later time.

You can level from 1 to 50 in two hours? Dare I ask how? I think my fastest time was 5 and a half hours or so, that was farming with 1 farmer and 1 alt in AE with 2x booster on.

Yea, but that's still comparing apples to oranges though. You are talking about 3 different accounts playing 3 different maps, 1 active and 2 afk farmers, all combining their net total gain. 3 separate teams basically. I am talking about 3 different accounts on the same map, one single team. And someone else was saying that someone could powerlevel someone from 1 to 50, and still make 1 billion inf in that timeframe. To put that into context, that would be like me comparing 3 different trials, adding up the net gain, and using that as a baseline. 3 maps vs 1 map isn't the same thing, as far as inf gain/hour is concerned.

Lol.. yep! Is it friday yet? So 2.22m inf/minute, lets see, thats - 122,247,590 inf/hour, 611,372,950 inf/5 hours, (with 3 active farmers) or 407,581,966 inf/5 hours with 2 farmers and power leveling 1 alt. Still not a billion in 5 hours! Not even Half that! 😆

Good catch, I didn't catch that one. Your numbers are correct, so thanks for that. PS - Bad math post!

With me it depends. If I use 2 characters to Power level Another alt, I will find a little more, but not much. I usually end a power level run with 200-250 million or so, not counting drops. You get lucky or unlucky when it comes to drops.

Agree. Personally I could care less that they are removing the EMP to merit conversion. Just the suggested numbers of what farmers make in the AE was so inaccurate I found it offensive. 1 billion in 5 hours? WHILE leveling an alt? I wish I made that. Heck I wish I made half that. In reality I make about 1/4th of that.

And I can just hear the argument now - "AE needs to be nerfed further because farmers can mail themselves things across shards. They can pool all their AFK farming efforts!" Would not surprise me in the least if that is the next talking point.

Agree. 3 active accounts allowed per shard. But as far as I know there is no way to transfer money across shards is there? I am not even sure if you can mail EMP merits from one shard to another on the same account. But ya, either way, what switchfade is insinuating is sheer lunacy. I am pretty sure that no one would agree with the idea that we need to balance the AE and economy around the assumption that farmers are multi-boxing 8 characters at a time running active scripts, which sure seems to be what they are suggesting.

Afk farming is not bannable. Scripts and key loggers? Yep. 100% Sure. Bannable. So is playing more than 3 accounts at a time. How? Because I spoke to a GM and they said that playing more than 3 accounts would be a war crime. So, just to clarify here, "you" are suggesting that we use the "extreme upper end" of not only what is possible to earn, but having to break 2 rules in order to do so, as the measurement in order to balance the AE gain around, that's what you are suggesting? That is like assuming everyone makes 10 million dollars per year, and then taxing them as such. Not only would your suggestion completely break the market, but it wouldn't make farming optional anymore, it would be required, for anyone who wanted to get a fully purpled character. And for the record, your "reputation" if you even have one, as well as your opinion at this point, matters to me about as much as a sack of leaky rat droppings. Because either you A.) Break the rules yourself. or B.) Completely made up stats on the fly, in which case you are a Liar. I suspect it is B. But either way, that makes your opinions on the matter about as reliable as Bigfoot or UFO sightings are in discussions about global market policy.

Now I know you are blowing hot air. First off, running scripts is bannable. So is running more than 3 accounts at a time. Are you insinuating that every farmer is doing this? And that is the lenghts one needs to go to in order to meet your figure of 1 billion during a power level? Show me then. So me the math and numbers. Prove to me that it is even possible. Here, I will even do it for you. Using your "totally real and not made up" scenario above, just to show you how ridiculous that it is. First off, going 1-50 in 5 hours is impossible without exp boosters. So that alt gets ZIP. But lets say its doing the maximum allowed, 2 boxing with 1 farmer and 1 alt. In order to get 1 billion in 5 hours, that is 200,000,000 an hour. Or 3,333,333 inf per minute, on one character, the two you are actively playing, which translates to 1,666,666/minute. But hold on, you have two people! So that's really 1/2rd of all your money, that you aren't really getting, due to the Booster in play. Which really means you need to earn money that you aren't even getting. See if you actually farmed and power leveled yourself, these are the things you would know. So here is the math for your make believe scenerio - 1 billion in 5 hours = 200,000,000 inf/hour 200,000,000 an hour = 3,333,333 inf a minute 3,333,333 x 1.5 (exp booster inf loss) = 5 million inf a minute, on ONE character. That is more than TWICE what I make, when clearing a map in 3 minutes. To simplify it for you, that means that a person would have to clear that same map I did, on one character, in HALF the time. 1 and a half minutes, or 90 seconds. The loading screens ALONE won't allow that to happen, much less the absurdity that you are insinuating. That is how I know everything you suggested is complete and utter BS, as would anyone who has actually power leveled themselves a few times.

Right. 2,4 million inf as in my orginal post. What you seem to be missing is - 1. I am using THREE characters there, not TWO. 2. When I use TWO characters, to powerlevel, ONE of them has the 2x EXP booster. Which cuts my total inf down by TWO THIRDS. 2,400,000/3 = 800,000. Which is exactly what I said I get when I am power leveling with one active farmer, and one alt on an exp booster. MATH IS HARD?

Here, I will even do you one better. A video. This was recorded by someone I was leveling in a public farming run. The farm takes roughly 3 minutes, and the person recording goes from 4.6 million inf, to 6.4 at the end of the run. that is a Net gain of roughly 1.8 Million in total. Divided that by 3 (time in minutes) = 600,000 inf/minute. Keep in mind, this is actually "boosted inf gain" for having a full party. But the money I made in that time? 600,000 x 3? 1.8 million. And if you can show me a video of someone doing this faster I would "love" to see one. My time beats most fire farmers. So yea, I call BS on your "power leveling gets you 500mil in 5 hours" arguement.

Orly? Citation needed. Already given my figures, as well as others in the AE chat. And as a part of the farming community as well as discords, I have never heard of anyone claiming to make 4mil a minute.

*GASP* BROTHERS! SISTERS! HEAR MY CALL! SOME ROGUE HAS MISUSED THE CHANNEL! TO ARMS! TO ARMS! TO WAR! GOD WILLS IT! SOMEONE PLAY SOME SABATON! PLAY THE DRUMS OF WAR! WE WILL POST ON THE FORUMS! WE WILL POST IN THE DISCORD! WE WILL FURTHER POST IN THE CHANNEL! FOLLOW ME BATTLE BROTHERS! ONCE MORE INTO DARKNESS! Man, who knew that LFG was such super serious biz? Some people need to just get a grip. Its a dang video game, not a private international space station channel. If someone in a channel bothers you that much use the tools already provided. Like the ignore button. Guys really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it? 3 day ban hammers for misusing a channel? How do you think that will go over with this being a free game, hosted by a handful of dedicated volunteers, vs thousands of us? And it only takes one or two players goofing off to cause such a ruckus? */popcorn*

Forgot a few things in your assumption here. 1. First off, no one is getting 1-50 in 5 hours without EXP boosters. And if you use the EXP boosters, you are going to loose money. 2. If you are power leveling yourself, the money is still split. And that money that's the alts "portion" is lost, due to the Exp boosters. 3. After 5 hours of playing 1 active farmer, and 1 alt with a 2x exp booster, you are more likely to have around 200-250m or so. Not the 500-1b as suggested. 4. It takes longer and you will get less money if you are "afk farming." You will likely make enough to have a basebone slotting taken care of, with all the must-haves. But the notion that you can have a brand new character of any AT completely purpled out in 5 hours of farming is highly incorrect. Food for thought.

Yea hi. Farmer here, and I have to disagree here. First off, with 3 multibox farmers redlining the most I was able to make was 2.4 mil/minute. This is me going all out as hard as I can as fast as I can. So lets do the math! 2,400,000 x 60 (mins) = 144,000,000 inf/hour. 144,000,000 x 5 hours = 720,000,000 total inf gained. Sounds solid right? Well no. First off, the vast majority of farmers do not multibox. And for context, lets say that a person is power-leveling themselves, meaning one active farmer, one alt getting 2x exp at 0 Inf. In that circumstance, I get roughly 800 thousand/minute. Because the inf gain is split, and with exp boosters omitted from any gain. You are essentially taking a loss in money to level twice as fast. So lets do the math for that - 800,000 x 60 (mins) = 48,000,000 inf/hour 48,000,000 x 5 hours = 240,000,000 total inf gained. 240 million is enough to get a build started for sure. You won't be full purples, but you wont be poormans either. Thats enough to get a few of the must haves like LotG, all of the Uniques and Procs, and a few low end sets. Playable? Sure. Powerfarmable? I doubt it. Possible, depending on the AT and powerset. But wait! There's More! This is all "active" farming. Not AFK farming. You can cut that roughly by 3/4 to half. But lets assume the best net gain for context, and say half. So thats - 400,000 x 60 = 24,000,000 inf/hour 24,000,000 x 5 hours = 120,000,000 total inf gained for afk power leveling. Now in the interest of fairness, I presume we all agree that afk farming would take longer. So lets go ahead and add 3 hours to that. 24,000,000 x 3 = 72,000,000 72,000,000 + 120,000,000 = 192,000,000 total net inf. For 8 hours of AFK power leveling. I have both active and power leveled myself multiple times. I likely have around 20-30 level 50s on 3 accounts now. And I can assure you that these are roughly correct figures. It varies if you multibox 2 or 3, as well as active or afk farm. But the notion that anyone who levels 1-50 in an AE will automatically have over half a billion inf to blow is laughably inaccurate.

Here's a few thoughts from me about RP and Bio's. First, I go by live and let live. Sure I see things that might bother me, but I usually just ignore them and move on. If we vibe and mesh, then sure. Good times to be had by all. If we don't? Well, it happens. The height/weight/orgin story stuff doesn't bother me, due to the limits in the creator. What if someone wants to be something that can't be done in the costume editor? I am a bit OCD when it comes to my characters personality, appearance, and BIO, so I get where they are coming from. The nsfw stuff? Meh. Doesn't bother me much personally. Most times when I interact with such people, that is more or less an afterthought. Just because someone has that in there doesn't mean that's all there is to them. Honestly it varies person to person. But I get why it might be distasteful to some. To me though there are far worse things. There are far more things that I find personally distasteful, such as - 1. The "I'm a greater deity, gods other child, personal friend of DJ Zero, existed before time, exist on multiple levels of existence at once, feared by mortals everywhere blah blah blah" levels of power, and they are level two. I have no qualms against powerful characters, but at least earn some of it in levels and so on. But I see far more "Zomg I'm so powerful" level twos than actual people roleplaying their incarnate level abilities. 2. Roleplaying powers that are not in any way affiliated with their powersets. Some gentle creation is awesome, sure. But not for example a Fire/thorn blaster who is immortal, instantly regenerates everything, immune to psionics, can speak to spirits, control machines with telepathy, can summon ice cream cones, so on. At least "resemble" your powers is all I ask. 3. The "I'm so special" sorts. The "I'm a half angel, half demon, half werewolf, vampire, troll, who is a high ranking arbiter in Arachnos." Look I applaud originality and creativity, but there is a point where it gets absurd or ridiculous where it just feels like they want attention or to stand out. Honestly? I find a characters story more engaging than what they are. Funny enough, if you actually sit and interact with many such characters, their RP is about as deep as a kiddie pool. They have no goals, no motivations, no problems, no hobbies or interests. As an example, a character of mine who couldn't die. (She was more or less Kenny. She could die, but she just wouldn't stay dead. Dark/Dark Tanker.) What did she do with her time? She learned languages, took up Pottery, literature, and cheese mongering. Yes, she was a highlander cheesemaker. 4. The "I am absolutely perfect" sorts. It is important to have faults and flaws, goals to overcome. If you are perfect with no obstacles, than I would argue your story is already largely behind you. An example would be my main character who is a cyborg, a Robot/Ele MM. Shes fantastic when it comes to technology, but a complete dunce when it comes to anything Magical. to her, its all rabbits and card tricks. No matter how many times its explained to her, she will never "get it." She thinks of magic as a science that changes the rules every day. But she has friends who are experts in magical matters, so when she has a magical problem she goes to them about it. In return, they ask her to reset the clocks on their microwaves, so it works out. Having flaws is what makes a character full, or complete in my opinion. It makes them relatable, and have things to deal with and ways to grow. My two cents on things. Sure, sometimes there is TMI in Bio's, but not all of that is strictly NSFW stuff IMO. And not everyone is going to agree on what they like or don't like.