Neiska

No, you stated some numbers you completely made up, failed to prove the math, handwaved math proving you wrong, and now are playing semantical word games. Your argument literally is - "It is possible to get X amount if I run 3 different accounts doing 3 different things and combine my efforts. Thus, it should be nerfed, and screw over the 99% of people who do not play that extreme. No, I won't prove it. You just have to trust me." That is like saying we should outlaw owning a car because there are drunk drivers. Your math, nor suggestion, doesn't hold water.

Orly? You tried to insinuate that it is possible to both farm a character from 1 to 50 and make 1 billion in 5 hours. Which has been proven to be BS. You can get to level 50 in 5 hours yes. And you can make 1 billion, if you use 3 separate farmers on 3 separate maps. But suggesting you take 1 alt, and 1 active farmer, on the same map, and making both level 50 and 1 billion in 5 hours is entirely false. The only way that is possible is using other outside AFK farmers to artificially boost your INF to make that possible, which shouldn't even be in the equation. Now if you don't mind, stop citing things you made up, and go "I cited stuff elsewhere, my reputation says so" And let's let it rest as GM Widow asks. Yes?

I guess I am far better at making moneys than leveling alts then! 😆 I am not disbelieving; I am surprised honestly. What map I run usually depends on what I am playing. For my Robot MM team, I run the Asteroid. For my Demon MM team, I run Night at the Movies. If I am leveling an alt, I play my two savage/bio brutes with my alt in the background, usually on the asteroid map. I usually do it for an hour or so before I get bored and take a break. I am used to MM farming so much that Tank or Brute farming is a snoozefest by comparison, I can only do it for so long before I get sleepy and do something else. Then come back to the alt at a later time.

You can level from 1 to 50 in two hours? Dare I ask how? I think my fastest time was 5 and a half hours or so, that was farming with 1 farmer and 1 alt in AE with 2x booster on.

Yea, but that's still comparing apples to oranges though. You are talking about 3 different accounts playing 3 different maps, 1 active and 2 afk farmers, all combining their net total gain. 3 separate teams basically. I am talking about 3 different accounts on the same map, one single team. And someone else was saying that someone could powerlevel someone from 1 to 50, and still make 1 billion inf in that timeframe. To put that into context, that would be like me comparing 3 different trials, adding up the net gain, and using that as a baseline. 3 maps vs 1 map isn't the same thing, as far as inf gain/hour is concerned.

Lol.. yep! Is it friday yet? So 2.22m inf/minute, lets see, thats - 122,247,590 inf/hour, 611,372,950 inf/5 hours, (with 3 active farmers) or 407,581,966 inf/5 hours with 2 farmers and power leveling 1 alt. Still not a billion in 5 hours! Not even Half that! 😆

Good catch, I didn't catch that one. Your numbers are correct, so thanks for that. PS - Bad math post!

With me it depends. If I use 2 characters to Power level Another alt, I will find a little more, but not much. I usually end a power level run with 200-250 million or so, not counting drops. You get lucky or unlucky when it comes to drops.

Agree. Personally I could care less that they are removing the EMP to merit conversion. Just the suggested numbers of what farmers make in the AE was so inaccurate I found it offensive. 1 billion in 5 hours? WHILE leveling an alt? I wish I made that. Heck I wish I made half that. In reality I make about 1/4th of that.

And I can just hear the argument now - "AE needs to be nerfed further because farmers can mail themselves things across shards. They can pool all their AFK farming efforts!" Would not surprise me in the least if that is the next talking point.

Agree. 3 active accounts allowed per shard. But as far as I know there is no way to transfer money across shards is there? I am not even sure if you can mail EMP merits from one shard to another on the same account. But ya, either way, what switchfade is insinuating is sheer lunacy. I am pretty sure that no one would agree with the idea that we need to balance the AE and economy around the assumption that farmers are multi-boxing 8 characters at a time running active scripts, which sure seems to be what they are suggesting.

Afk farming is not bannable. Scripts and key loggers? Yep. 100% Sure. Bannable. So is playing more than 3 accounts at a time. How? Because I spoke to a GM and they said that playing more than 3 accounts would be a war crime. So, just to clarify here, "you" are suggesting that we use the "extreme upper end" of not only what is possible to earn, but having to break 2 rules in order to do so, as the measurement in order to balance the AE gain around, that's what you are suggesting? That is like assuming everyone makes 10 million dollars per year, and then taxing them as such. Not only would your suggestion completely break the market, but it wouldn't make farming optional anymore, it would be required, for anyone who wanted to get a fully purpled character. And for the record, your "reputation" if you even have one, as well as your opinion at this point, matters to me about as much as a sack of leaky rat droppings. Because either you A.) Break the rules yourself. or B.) Completely made up stats on the fly, in which case you are a Liar. I suspect it is B. But either way, that makes your opinions on the matter about as reliable as Bigfoot or UFO sightings are in discussions about global market policy.

Now I know you are blowing hot air. First off, running scripts is bannable. So is running more than 3 accounts at a time. Are you insinuating that every farmer is doing this? And that is the lenghts one needs to go to in order to meet your figure of 1 billion during a power level? Show me then. So me the math and numbers. Prove to me that it is even possible. Here, I will even do it for you. Using your "totally real and not made up" scenario above, just to show you how ridiculous that it is. First off, going 1-50 in 5 hours is impossible without exp boosters. So that alt gets ZIP. But lets say its doing the maximum allowed, 2 boxing with 1 farmer and 1 alt. In order to get 1 billion in 5 hours, that is 200,000,000 an hour. Or 3,333,333 inf per minute, on one character, the two you are actively playing, which translates to 1,666,666/minute. But hold on, you have two people! So that's really 1/2rd of all your money, that you aren't really getting, due to the Booster in play. Which really means you need to earn money that you aren't even getting. See if you actually farmed and power leveled yourself, these are the things you would know. So here is the math for your make believe scenerio - 1 billion in 5 hours = 200,000,000 inf/hour 200,000,000 an hour = 3,333,333 inf a minute 3,333,333 x 1.5 (exp booster inf loss) = 5 million inf a minute, on ONE character. That is more than TWICE what I make, when clearing a map in 3 minutes. To simplify it for you, that means that a person would have to clear that same map I did, on one character, in HALF the time. 1 and a half minutes, or 90 seconds. The loading screens ALONE won't allow that to happen, much less the absurdity that you are insinuating. That is how I know everything you suggested is complete and utter BS, as would anyone who has actually power leveled themselves a few times.

Right. 2,4 million inf as in my orginal post. What you seem to be missing is - 1. I am using THREE characters there, not TWO. 2. When I use TWO characters, to powerlevel, ONE of them has the 2x EXP booster. Which cuts my total inf down by TWO THIRDS. 2,400,000/3 = 800,000. Which is exactly what I said I get when I am power leveling with one active farmer, and one alt on an exp booster. MATH IS HARD?

Here, I will even do you one better. A video. This was recorded by someone I was leveling in a public farming run. The farm takes roughly 3 minutes, and the person recording goes from 4.6 million inf, to 6.4 at the end of the run. that is a Net gain of roughly 1.8 Million in total. Divided that by 3 (time in minutes) = 600,000 inf/minute. Keep in mind, this is actually "boosted inf gain" for having a full party. But the money I made in that time? 600,000 x 3? 1.8 million. And if you can show me a video of someone doing this faster I would "love" to see one. My time beats most fire farmers. So yea, I call BS on your "power leveling gets you 500mil in 5 hours" arguement.

Orly? Citation needed. Already given my figures, as well as others in the AE chat. And as a part of the farming community as well as discords, I have never heard of anyone claiming to make 4mil a minute.

*GASP* BROTHERS! SISTERS! HEAR MY CALL! SOME ROGUE HAS MISUSED THE CHANNEL! TO ARMS! TO ARMS! TO WAR! GOD WILLS IT! SOMEONE PLAY SOME SABATON! PLAY THE DRUMS OF WAR! WE WILL POST ON THE FORUMS! WE WILL POST IN THE DISCORD! WE WILL FURTHER POST IN THE CHANNEL! FOLLOW ME BATTLE BROTHERS! ONCE MORE INTO DARKNESS! Man, who knew that LFG was such super serious biz? Some people need to just get a grip. Its a dang video game, not a private international space station channel. If someone in a channel bothers you that much use the tools already provided. Like the ignore button. Guys really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it? 3 day ban hammers for misusing a channel? How do you think that will go over with this being a free game, hosted by a handful of dedicated volunteers, vs thousands of us? And it only takes one or two players goofing off to cause such a ruckus? */popcorn*

Forgot a few things in your assumption here. 1. First off, no one is getting 1-50 in 5 hours without EXP boosters. And if you use the EXP boosters, you are going to loose money. 2. If you are power leveling yourself, the money is still split. And that money that's the alts "portion" is lost, due to the Exp boosters. 3. After 5 hours of playing 1 active farmer, and 1 alt with a 2x exp booster, you are more likely to have around 200-250m or so. Not the 500-1b as suggested. 4. It takes longer and you will get less money if you are "afk farming." You will likely make enough to have a basebone slotting taken care of, with all the must-haves. But the notion that you can have a brand new character of any AT completely purpled out in 5 hours of farming is highly incorrect. Food for thought.

Yea hi. Farmer here, and I have to disagree here. First off, with 3 multibox farmers redlining the most I was able to make was 2.4 mil/minute. This is me going all out as hard as I can as fast as I can. So lets do the math! 2,400,000 x 60 (mins) = 144,000,000 inf/hour. 144,000,000 x 5 hours = 720,000,000 total inf gained. Sounds solid right? Well no. First off, the vast majority of farmers do not multibox. And for context, lets say that a person is power-leveling themselves, meaning one active farmer, one alt getting 2x exp at 0 Inf. In that circumstance, I get roughly 800 thousand/minute. Because the inf gain is split, and with exp boosters omitted from any gain. You are essentially taking a loss in money to level twice as fast. So lets do the math for that - 800,000 x 60 (mins) = 48,000,000 inf/hour 48,000,000 x 5 hours = 240,000,000 total inf gained. 240 million is enough to get a build started for sure. You won't be full purples, but you wont be poormans either. Thats enough to get a few of the must haves like LotG, all of the Uniques and Procs, and a few low end sets. Playable? Sure. Powerfarmable? I doubt it. Possible, depending on the AT and powerset. But wait! There's More! This is all "active" farming. Not AFK farming. You can cut that roughly by 3/4 to half. But lets assume the best net gain for context, and say half. So thats - 400,000 x 60 = 24,000,000 inf/hour 24,000,000 x 5 hours = 120,000,000 total inf gained for afk power leveling. Now in the interest of fairness, I presume we all agree that afk farming would take longer. So lets go ahead and add 3 hours to that. 24,000,000 x 3 = 72,000,000 72,000,000 + 120,000,000 = 192,000,000 total net inf. For 8 hours of AFK power leveling. I have both active and power leveled myself multiple times. I likely have around 20-30 level 50s on 3 accounts now. And I can assure you that these are roughly correct figures. It varies if you multibox 2 or 3, as well as active or afk farm. But the notion that anyone who levels 1-50 in an AE will automatically have over half a billion inf to blow is laughably inaccurate.

Here's a few thoughts from me about RP and Bio's. First, I go by live and let live. Sure I see things that might bother me, but I usually just ignore them and move on. If we vibe and mesh, then sure. Good times to be had by all. If we don't? Well, it happens. The height/weight/orgin story stuff doesn't bother me, due to the limits in the creator. What if someone wants to be something that can't be done in the costume editor? I am a bit OCD when it comes to my characters personality, appearance, and BIO, so I get where they are coming from. The nsfw stuff? Meh. Doesn't bother me much personally. Most times when I interact with such people, that is more or less an afterthought. Just because someone has that in there doesn't mean that's all there is to them. Honestly it varies person to person. But I get why it might be distasteful to some. To me though there are far worse things. There are far more things that I find personally distasteful, such as - 1. The "I'm a greater deity, gods other child, personal friend of DJ Zero, existed before time, exist on multiple levels of existence at once, feared by mortals everywhere blah blah blah" levels of power, and they are level two. I have no qualms against powerful characters, but at least earn some of it in levels and so on. But I see far more "Zomg I'm so powerful" level twos than actual people roleplaying their incarnate level abilities. 2. Roleplaying powers that are not in any way affiliated with their powersets. Some gentle creation is awesome, sure. But not for example a Fire/thorn blaster who is immortal, instantly regenerates everything, immune to psionics, can speak to spirits, control machines with telepathy, can summon ice cream cones, so on. At least "resemble" your powers is all I ask. 3. The "I'm so special" sorts. The "I'm a half angel, half demon, half werewolf, vampire, troll, who is a high ranking arbiter in Arachnos." Look I applaud originality and creativity, but there is a point where it gets absurd or ridiculous where it just feels like they want attention or to stand out. Honestly? I find a characters story more engaging than what they are. Funny enough, if you actually sit and interact with many such characters, their RP is about as deep as a kiddie pool. They have no goals, no motivations, no problems, no hobbies or interests. As an example, a character of mine who couldn't die. (She was more or less Kenny. She could die, but she just wouldn't stay dead. Dark/Dark Tanker.) What did she do with her time? She learned languages, took up Pottery, literature, and cheese mongering. Yes, she was a highlander cheesemaker. 4. The "I am absolutely perfect" sorts. It is important to have faults and flaws, goals to overcome. If you are perfect with no obstacles, than I would argue your story is already largely behind you. An example would be my main character who is a cyborg, a Robot/Ele MM. Shes fantastic when it comes to technology, but a complete dunce when it comes to anything Magical. to her, its all rabbits and card tricks. No matter how many times its explained to her, she will never "get it." She thinks of magic as a science that changes the rules every day. But she has friends who are experts in magical matters, so when she has a magical problem she goes to them about it. In return, they ask her to reset the clocks on their microwaves, so it works out. Having flaws is what makes a character full, or complete in my opinion. It makes them relatable, and have things to deal with and ways to grow. My two cents on things. Sure, sometimes there is TMI in Bio's, but not all of that is strictly NSFW stuff IMO. And not everyone is going to agree on what they like or don't like.

Speaking just for myself and what I do. For me, making alts "is" my game. I enjoy taking a new character, getting them to max level, and seeing the interactions in powers. I spend hours not just tinkering with costumes, styles, backgrounds, (bit OCD when it comes to my characters appearance, theme and such.) I also spend hours in mids tweaking and fine-tuning things. Trying new things. Even going against "conventional wisdom" with builds, AT's, and powersets to see what else is possible. Now one thing you may have neglected to think of, is that power leveling doesn't just dump converters into the market. I also throw up my recipes and salvage. The only things I vendor are white recipes and such. Everything else? Onto the AH it goes. Usually, I list everything for a flat rate of 500 inf, no matter what it is. (I am sure that might give the market players a chuckle.) but I don't care to spend the time to play the market to squeeze out as much profit as possible. Things pretty much always immediately sell. From purple recipes, to salvage, etc. I don't even turn EMP merits into merits and flip them to converters. I am usually the one buying converters off the market to make my sets, because often its cheaper to buy multiple copies and turn them into what you need to finish your set. EMP merits to me are more important than money, so I can get my T3's. I usually only go full T4's if I really enjoy the character. Sometimes I keep a character around. Sometimes I shelf them. Sometimes I completely strip them down and recycle the materials. It depends really. I just finished making a Demons/Storm MM, and while powerful isn't for me, so will recycle everything shy of EMP merits I used on her and use them on a new Demons/Nature MM I made. And all it costs me is time, some unslotters, and the odd few changes in IOs I may make. But the majority of it? I have already used on other characters. Just wanted to highlight that not everyone, not even farmers are flipping merits and selling 10000 converters. Many of us farmers actually don't spend very much each time we make an alt. I suspect I have 2-3 sets of each AT set now, with similar copies of all the purple sets as well. Sometimes I'll find something I need and buy it. But most of it I have already on a shelf waiting for when I need it. Just saying what I do personally. I doubt it's the case for everyone, but for us with alt-itis I suspect it might be similar. It's how we spend time in our game - making alts. That is far more enjoyable to me than running high level content. I enjoy the theory crafting, the math, seeing the interactions of effects and bonuses and so on. I find it mentally stimulating.

No, I was referring to Tso's post about their suggestion to remove emp merits from leveling entirely, which would more or less screw over players who mainly solo play. Far as I am aware that isn't happening and thank goodness for that.

Okay, seriously, why are some upset that vet levels give Emp merits. For reals. You want them, what, to be entirely awarded 1-2 at a time from trials? And you think that by gatekeeping them will have a positive effect? And that by giving people artificial and needless steps to accomplish they will be more motivated to do trials? I mean, let's play hypothetical here. Let's say that *gasp* someone levels entirely and completely in the AE by themselves all the way from level 1 to full T4'd 50 and doesn't step a foot outside of the AE except to tailor with costumes, put stuff on the AH, and so on. What biz is that of yours? To me that sounds more like people who take issue with that, are more focused on "I do trials, therefore only I deserve t4 powers!" even though that player A and player B will likely never interact with one another. Which further leads me to hypothesize that such people get more sense of accomplishment by keeping other people down, more than focusing on themselves. "They got the same thing I did by doing something I didn't. It's not fair. Take it away from them" which is pretty much the same thing as kids on a playground, one group of kids doing their thing, and another group something else. And one group going to the teacher saying "Teacher teacher! They are having just as much fun doing something else! Take their ball from them! Make them play with us!" Keep it up and that group of kids might find themselves on an empty playground going "Why isn't there anyone else to play with?" Food for thought.

Unpopular opinion - Honestly? I don't really care. I have never turned EMP merits into normal merits. As someone who likes to level up many alts, more than I do so doing high end team content, EMPs are far more precious to me than merits are. If i need something I will turn the merits I get from normal story arcs or just spend some of the INF I have banked to get it. For mainly solo players, EMPs are much harder to get than merits or INF. My two cents.

My top favorites - 1. Robot/Electric MM - Strong enough to solo, gives valuable support effects that not other people can. 2. Demons/Time MM - Just overall around strong, only thing its really missing is -regen and +end tools. 3. Bio/EM Tanker - It just feels so good to be both near unkillable, and still waylay into those Elite Bosses for 700-800. 4. SoA - Crabber - A hover-blaster sort of build, focusing on DEF and Resists, not recharge. You can still use pets, but you feel like a flying tanker with 45% all def and 85% res, with ranged powers. And all those powers have built in debuffs like -DEF or -RES. I tried the recharge builds people often suggest, and it felt like it lacked oomph. But my version is absurdly durable, with ranged attacks, strong AoE and buffing capabilities. With pets!