Neiska

Afraid it isn't just you hon. The only team I was able to semi-manage it on was my all t4 3 robot team - EA, Time, Kin, but even that was rough, and I didn't finish. It simply wasn't worth the time investment going spawn to spawn, resummoning everything, rebuffing, popping destiny, power boost, chrono, farsight, felcrum, then trying to get the 2-3 groups that would aggro down before stuff began to wear off. To put it into perspective, I regularly farm on with that team on +4/8 with EBs, I've hunted GMs, I've solo'd some TFs, etc. Even if you use every trick, tactic, and get every kitchen sink from Walmart into the mix, it simply isn't viable. 😟 I just hope the GMs notice and do something. Because it really sucks having a favorite AT completely borked for any new content.

First off, I personally use movement powers. My usual go-to is flight, but sometimes its mythic flight or teleport, depends. So this isn't "me" here. Secondly, it is the principle of the matter. If that is allowed by the community as a sort of unspoken rule, then what else might slide? Would a petless MM be welcome? How about a weak or non min-maxed powers pairing defender? A melee focused blaster? Or whatever else we want to imagine for context? As an example, what if the leader goes "meh, whatever's clever" and doesn't make a deal out of it, and then one of you go "zomg no travel powers!" What then? Its suddenly not your team. See my point here? I agree they "Should", but I disagree that it should be some sort of unspoken rule. And I still say the rude ones are the ones making demands. If a person shows up unprepared, then it's really on them to make changes. If not, then maybe that activity isn't for them. That said however, expect some /popcorn moments when it's harder and harder to fill teams as time goes on, particularly when team leaders go "all people must have X Y Z" attitudes. And I for one shall point and smirk. People are allowed to play for fun. You might see TFs as super serious business, I assure you, not everyone takes the pixels on the screens so seriously. I just disagree with the general concept of "players must have X Y Z" unspoken rules. This isn't Wow. Not everyone is in your raiding guild who must show up with flasks/food/raid supplies, and what you are doing is more or less turning CoH into that. If it was your PRIVATE Supergroup run, then yes by all means use whatever rules you guys agree on amongst yourselves. But the community as a whole made entirely from randoms and the lfg? Respectfully disagree. Or at least advertise whatever stipulations you might have when creating the group. Don't go "Citadel TF LFM" then get upset when you get people who might not meet your expectations, particularly when you didn't state them beforehand.

Atlas: "A wizard did it." Mercy: "They didn't pay the property tax. Lord Recluse was unamused."

Sure. And it's a pet peeve of mine to have the difficulties of being deaf just being handwaved away or told they don't exist. More importantly, I do agree with you - using terms poor form. But I didn't fire the first shot here, and the person in question is on ignore now. So, all's well ends well, I guess. I think the big takeaway here is that 1. The forums can be pretty heated at times. 2. This patch really brought forth some passion/emotion on all sides. And I take a pretty dim view of one group of players all but doing the mocking jig when another group of players playstyle suffered.

But I am a woman, with an opinion. And yes, it's so wonderful to see a patch bring out the best in the community. 😆

For my robot MM team and my tanker/brute teams, I run S/L asteroid map or fire, depending. For my Demon MM team, I run night at the movies without EB's.

Frustrating to the point where some MMs are just flat sitting out of the new content.

And it is also patently rude to demand or make terms or conditions of others in order to play, even if they aren't teaming together. Which is what this whole thing is turning into if you want to break it down into a nutshell. Personally, I use travel powers. But not everyone does. As far as the Karen thing goes, a good part of the internet uses it as a byword for narcissistic, bossy people who use any excuse or abuse any option available to simply get their way. And going "take X powers or else" Certainly, falls under Karen-hood.

Hehe, well it was a good poopiepost. I am fine with the AE changes personally, and the aggro changes. I am more bummed at the state of MMs in the harder content. Incarnate content was rough enough on MMs what with the level shifts and all, but with the increased difficulty each MM build I have tried has faceplanted. So yea, wondering how that one slipped by. I am wondering if they intend to do anything about it, or if its going to be a case of - "If you roll MM, you are omitting yourself from harder difficulties."

Yep I had thought about that too. Pretty certain it still happens though. 😆

Same. MMs are my favorite class but they just don't hold up on harder content. At least with the incarnate stuff before it was doable. Rough but doable. Now? Expect anything 3 or 4 star to just be resummoning pets, or just go illusion controller. It just really sucks how much of an oversight this was. I tried every trick in the book I know as an MM player and nothing works. The difference between the pets and npcs are just too wide to be circumvented by clever engagement.

Nope. I asked this in Discord too and nobody replied. There is so much purple on the harder difficulty, the only time my pets hold up is spamming heals and buffs on them nonstop, even on a full team the pets faceplant. Even with my Demons/EA or Robots/Time, the toughest MMs I have, pets just don't cut it on the higher difficulty. Full T4's etc, doesn't matter. Pets need boosting for harder content, but I don't expect them to do anything about it.

Yes, how dare some people like to do their own things and not run the same content over and over and over. The NERVE. And they get incarnates too? How shameful! They should charge a cover fee, keep out the riffraff. Those grubby, dirt eating AE farmers don't deserve full character progression same as everyone else. HUFF HUFF!

For some of us AFK farming is actually easier now, I don't have to tab in and move so much. Just saying. 😆

@biostem - Yea, at this point it's clear we will never see eye to eye on this. And personally, I no longer care. Just going to put you on ignore because I believe that's best.

Actually, no, it isn't. As I don't have to prove anything, any more than you do. If the burden of proof is on me, then the burden of proof is also on you to prove that without a doubt each and every one who doesn't know basic general knowledge of the game is someone who got power leveled and is not any other case or scenario such as the many I have already listed. Now, I haven't asked that, nor do I expect it, because I think it's ridiculous, just as you are being just as ridiculous in just handwaving away situations that happen. You don't think I never got grief for not hearing a glowie? You can't be serious. Says the one who makes statements about an entire part of the community, with respect, you yourself re being prejudiced sir. And no, we haven't teamed, and I sincerely we never do as I suspect neither of us would enjoy it. I am not saying this to be insulting or suggestive in any manner, I just think our mindsets are too different to make it an enjoyable activity. Or, you know, the reverse is also just as true. Someone with a chip on their shoulder in a rush runs off ahead of everyone else. But your own Anecdotes count as evidence? Sure, the issue is that person. Who is doing something new for the first time, could be young, or inexperienced, or any number of scenarios. And if you have a problem with people learning, then I would think that is a "you" problem. I mean, you want people to know, but when they try, you cite them for it? We really are coming full circle here aren't we? Look. Lets agree to disagree here. You expect everyone to know the location or be willing to find it when joining a team, yes? Fine. Fair. I am just pointing out reasons or scenarios why they wouldn't, any of which are plausible, could be expected in an online multiplayer game and so on. You expect familiarity with core game mechanics, and so on. What if your team member is a toddler, or someone who doesn't speak English, or any number of possibilities? What is basic general knowledge to you, isn't the same for everyone else. And in such case either A. Adjustments can be made, or B. Perhaps that activity is beyond the players current abilities? Will you at least consider that some of these are beyond their ability to control, or that some of them are more than "Power leveled ignorant players" as you insinuate? But this is getting way off topic and personally I don't want it to turn into a debate any more than it already has. I hope we both agree that we have seen too much of that already. You don't want to team with certain people? Fine. Just know that others may not want to team with you in turn, not for lack of abilities or knowledge, because that isn't the only things that make a team good or bad. And those other people for whatever reason are free to not team with you or anyone else, despite whatever "encouragements" are put in place to entice them to do so. Live and let live a little, yes?

If "you" form "your" own team, then fine. Boot people as you see fit, "you" are allowed to do that. But keep in mind others can do that as well. So is someone else is just as free to boot you for being elitist, or for no reason at all aside from "they are the leader"? But don't come here on the forums and complain that there aren't enough people to meet your expectations. You used LFG, a server wide public channel where anyone can join if you let them. And even you as the leader don't set the standard, the team does. "You" don't dictate the "Team's" level of play. Let's say you were the only one on the team to do X difficulty activity before. Is everyone to be on your level, to know the fights and execute it flawlessly? Thats not how people and teaming works. You are expecting people to accumulate to your play, but you don't wish to accumulate to theirs. If you have expectations and the team can't meet them, then either you change your expectations or replace the team. It's really that simple. I didn't project anything. I even made the point of saying I wasn't suggesting you personally. But just to reinforce this, I went through and tried to avoid the word "you" to avoid suggesting my contexts mean you personally. My responses here are contextually, not you personally, but I apologize as it could be seen as such. I shall be more careful in my phrasing. And where is it written that people who have been power leveled or AE don't know things? That is only an assumption. And again, I don't see the game as a race, it's an activity where different kinds of people can enjoy. This is falling back to do or die/succeed and fail examples. What about the case of people who know what they are doing and just sped-leveled an alt? I mean, there isn't that many new players now days, not like there was a few years ago. And this isn't considering things such as another players mental capabilities, or age. What if they are a child? I have read on the forums kids as young as 4 have played. (I don't know if such claims are true or not, only mentioning them for an example.) Personally, I am not surprised that not everyone knows the basic things. Especially in an older game that is free to play, one in which a parent who used to play in their youth might allow their child to do so, unsupervised. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that accommodations would be made, based on my own experience in the game. In my experience someone says, "hurry up" and if they can't or won't then they are removed. But you are correct, those two aren't mutually exclusive, I am both - I PL and play the AE often. But things such as this are precisely why I don't team often unless there is a particular thing I am after. The "gogogogo," "meta only," or elitist attitudes I find just as vexing as you might find "ignorant" players. First off, If it is so extremely rare, then why make such a fuss of it? Secondly, I want to share something with you. Just last night I was playing one of the new harder difficulties on my crabber. It was my first time, so I went with my super tough build - def capped, 85% res. An uncommon crabby build, but its the best one I am at playing. I don't have perma pets with that build. Now, someone on the team, lets call them the Elitist, noticed and started to tell in team how trash I was, that I was a detriment to the team by not having my crabber pets. Now, since you said your ignorant players are a rare occurrence, I would submit that I encounter elitists more often than you encounter ignorant newbies. Now, my point here is, is that it sounds like some people are expecting everyone else to accumulate to their level, while not accumulating to others, even down if necessary. What if they don't start the team? Or do they just run off, possibly die and go "what the heck, where were my heals" or "fail tank" when the others don't accumulate to their expectations? In closing I would like to highlight that no matter what you do - people such as this will always be encountered, which is one reason why I see the game as a sandbox, not a race. You will encounter people of all kinds before, of different capabilities and skill. So the question really is will you maintain your standards, or change them where necessary?

See, this is where I take issue. Such as expecting/demanding everyone take a travel power or get kicked. That is just straight up dictating or being a Karen. And like it or not, they are also "part" of the team. The team is only as strongest as its weakest link, not the strongest. A team will succeed or fail together. That's what a team is. Now if you want to remove someone from a team, that is a tool everyone has. But it sounds like you might be the sort to also kick someone if they aren't meta, or fully incarnated, or whatever. Like the sorts in WOW to require a higher ilvl than the rewards of the activity they are about to do. Sure, respect everyone's time. But that goes both ways. You have to respect others too, and that includes being patient if they are slow, or learning things, or doing something for the first time. I mean, how else is someone to know without doing it? It seems like you want the fastest, smoothest, activity possible and just don't want to be bothered if someone isn't cutting edge. I mean, what if they are handicapped or deaf? I am deaf myself, and attitudes precisely just like this is why I don't team often. This goes back to my first point - you don't know them. Or what they got going on. What they do or don't know. For all you know they could be playing from a hospital bed one handed, and you go "You are too slow. Goodbye." I mean, I am not trying to suggest you are without compassion or empathy, just trying to make a point here. Unless you form your own core team of people (like a supergroup) I think your expectations are beyond what is reasonable in an open LFG. If you want people to your exact specifications, then you might be less frustrated if you formed your own team of core players from a SG, instead of rolling the dice on what you might get. And how is someone to get to that point if you don't give them a chance to get there? I don't mean to insult but this comes off as an elitist attitude here, in CoH of all places.

Fair, and I suppose it is a different mindset. I see it as people doing their own thing, or for whatever reason not knowing something and asking. And the people who have been playing awhile going "why don't you know that" without knowing anything about the asking person in question at all. Maybe they are a returning player, maybe they are new. Perhaps they simply never used the tram before, or did their own thing/another activity. I don't think of the game as a competition, or race. Its an open world where you can largely go and do as you wish, so not everyone is going to follow the same path of advancement. I mean, I know some pretty strict rp'ers who follow a rigid set of self-imposed rules they follow, like only taking 1 level a week and what have you. I guess my point is, there are all kinds of players. And assuming the worst, or comparing achievements like rewards and powers like it's a contest isn't my viewpoint. I see the game as a sandbox where people create characters. I get your point. Really, I do. You want people to "earn their stripes." And I can respect that. But my point is - This isn't the Army.

Why is that an oversight? If someone chooses to spend every moment of their game time in Atlas, then that's their business? And if they decide to expand from there, then more power to them? I mean, I kind of see people asking as a good thing, no? It means people are trying new things, or maybe learning things? And that's a problem? I mean, you want people to familiarize themselves with the basics, and when they do, people go "why don't you already know?"

Sure, but my point is that not everyone cares to know where the tram is, some might spend their entire time in the pocket D, or the AE, or in their base roleplaying, or whatever. Why the obsession about people not knowing where the tram is, or not teaming, or doing any particular activity in question. What activities people like will generally dictate what knowledge they have in a game. So people don't know where the Tram or Ship is? So what? I imagine there will always be people who don't know where something is.

Fair! Far as that game goes what I loathed was the months of dailies for reputation, and then they considered that "content." 😑

Feel your pain @Snarky, kind of how I am feeling on the MMs that I adore. Did a few of the new 3 star content and so on, and there was purple stuff everywhere, which is more or less insta-death to most pets. Especially during big boss fights, where you can't be spamming resummon pets every 10 seconds. The aggro change didn't affect us much, we had extended aggro already. But the harder difficulties aren't very friendly to MMs, at least the one's I have seen so far.

I have to respectfully disagree. It might not be "your" focus, and that is fine. But please consider the following - 1. First the game is old. It came out in April 2004. That's 18 years old. If the game was a person, it would be old enough to join the military, buy a firearm, or vote. With point that in mind, I think it would be a fair assumption to agree that most people have played the game before, and are not first time new players. Some players have alts. Many, many alts. My self included. I have more than ten level 50s on 3 different accounts, and I intend to make even more. I would argue that "making alts" is just as part of the focus of this game as much as any other part of the game, for which other MMO game offers you 1000 character slots per account? But the main point is, is that most people have played the content before. Some people have played it many times. I mean who goes "Oh WOW it was Dollface the entire time?" on their 30th time playing through the Dr. Graves story arc? For such persons, they are more likely to speed onto whatever activity they enjoy, be it endgame content, or farming, or whatever act is their personal focus, which may or may not include "max level stuff." 2. I would also say that it is a fair guess to say that to people who fully level their character to 50, get it fully kitted out and incarnated, has likely spent more time at 50, than time not at 50. 3. People are able to go back and play other content they missed, either by side-kicking or through Ouro. It isn't a "get it now or miss it forever" proposition. 4. I believe there is more content at 50, than at any other 1-10 benchmark. I could be wrong there, but it certainly feels that way. And this isn't even considering things like accolades and so on. I suppose my point is, that endgame content perhaps isn't "your" focus. And I can respect that. If you want to stop, look around, enjoy the moment and the view, then I wish you all the best in a hobby you enjoy. But others have endgame as their focus, or roleplaying as their focus, or playing the market as their focus, or making alts and trying out new ATs/power combinations as their focus, and so on. And their focus is just as valid as your own. The "real game" begins when you click "create character" and whatever you do after that is entirely up to personal likes and dislikes. There is no "focus" in the game, aside from what players themselves choose. Food for thought.

Here we go again!