Neiska

Right. 2,4 million inf as in my orginal post. What you seem to be missing is - 1. I am using THREE characters there, not TWO. 2. When I use TWO characters, to powerlevel, ONE of them has the 2x EXP booster. Which cuts my total inf down by TWO THIRDS. 2,400,000/3 = 800,000. Which is exactly what I said I get when I am power leveling with one active farmer, and one alt on an exp booster. MATH IS HARD?

Here, I will even do you one better. A video. This was recorded by someone I was leveling in a public farming run. The farm takes roughly 3 minutes, and the person recording goes from 4.6 million inf, to 6.4 at the end of the run. that is a Net gain of roughly 1.8 Million in total. Divided that by 3 (time in minutes) = 600,000 inf/minute. Keep in mind, this is actually "boosted inf gain" for having a full party. But the money I made in that time? 600,000 x 3? 1.8 million. And if you can show me a video of someone doing this faster I would "love" to see one. My time beats most fire farmers. So yea, I call BS on your "power leveling gets you 500mil in 5 hours" arguement.

Orly? Citation needed. Already given my figures, as well as others in the AE chat. And as a part of the farming community as well as discords, I have never heard of anyone claiming to make 4mil a minute.

*GASP* BROTHERS! SISTERS! HEAR MY CALL! SOME ROGUE HAS MISUSED THE CHANNEL! TO ARMS! TO ARMS! TO WAR! GOD WILLS IT! SOMEONE PLAY SOME SABATON! PLAY THE DRUMS OF WAR! WE WILL POST ON THE FORUMS! WE WILL POST IN THE DISCORD! WE WILL FURTHER POST IN THE CHANNEL! FOLLOW ME BATTLE BROTHERS! ONCE MORE INTO DARKNESS! Man, who knew that LFG was such super serious biz? Some people need to just get a grip. Its a dang video game, not a private international space station channel. If someone in a channel bothers you that much use the tools already provided. Like the ignore button. Guys really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it? 3 day ban hammers for misusing a channel? How do you think that will go over with this being a free game, hosted by a handful of dedicated volunteers, vs thousands of us? And it only takes one or two players goofing off to cause such a ruckus? */popcorn*

Forgot a few things in your assumption here. 1. First off, no one is getting 1-50 in 5 hours without EXP boosters. And if you use the EXP boosters, you are going to loose money. 2. If you are power leveling yourself, the money is still split. And that money that's the alts "portion" is lost, due to the Exp boosters. 3. After 5 hours of playing 1 active farmer, and 1 alt with a 2x exp booster, you are more likely to have around 200-250m or so. Not the 500-1b as suggested. 4. It takes longer and you will get less money if you are "afk farming." You will likely make enough to have a basebone slotting taken care of, with all the must-haves. But the notion that you can have a brand new character of any AT completely purpled out in 5 hours of farming is highly incorrect. Food for thought.

Yea hi. Farmer here, and I have to disagree here. First off, with 3 multibox farmers redlining the most I was able to make was 2.4 mil/minute. This is me going all out as hard as I can as fast as I can. So lets do the math! 2,400,000 x 60 (mins) = 144,000,000 inf/hour. 144,000,000 x 5 hours = 720,000,000 total inf gained. Sounds solid right? Well no. First off, the vast majority of farmers do not multibox. And for context, lets say that a person is power-leveling themselves, meaning one active farmer, one alt getting 2x exp at 0 Inf. In that circumstance, I get roughly 800 thousand/minute. Because the inf gain is split, and with exp boosters omitted from any gain. You are essentially taking a loss in money to level twice as fast. So lets do the math for that - 800,000 x 60 (mins) = 48,000,000 inf/hour 48,000,000 x 5 hours = 240,000,000 total inf gained. 240 million is enough to get a build started for sure. You won't be full purples, but you wont be poormans either. Thats enough to get a few of the must haves like LotG, all of the Uniques and Procs, and a few low end sets. Playable? Sure. Powerfarmable? I doubt it. Possible, depending on the AT and powerset. But wait! There's More! This is all "active" farming. Not AFK farming. You can cut that roughly by 3/4 to half. But lets assume the best net gain for context, and say half. So thats - 400,000 x 60 = 24,000,000 inf/hour 24,000,000 x 5 hours = 120,000,000 total inf gained for afk power leveling. Now in the interest of fairness, I presume we all agree that afk farming would take longer. So lets go ahead and add 3 hours to that. 24,000,000 x 3 = 72,000,000 72,000,000 + 120,000,000 = 192,000,000 total net inf. For 8 hours of AFK power leveling. I have both active and power leveled myself multiple times. I likely have around 20-30 level 50s on 3 accounts now. And I can assure you that these are roughly correct figures. It varies if you multibox 2 or 3, as well as active or afk farm. But the notion that anyone who levels 1-50 in an AE will automatically have over half a billion inf to blow is laughably inaccurate.

Here's a few thoughts from me about RP and Bio's. First, I go by live and let live. Sure I see things that might bother me, but I usually just ignore them and move on. If we vibe and mesh, then sure. Good times to be had by all. If we don't? Well, it happens. The height/weight/orgin story stuff doesn't bother me, due to the limits in the creator. What if someone wants to be something that can't be done in the costume editor? I am a bit OCD when it comes to my characters personality, appearance, and BIO, so I get where they are coming from. The nsfw stuff? Meh. Doesn't bother me much personally. Most times when I interact with such people, that is more or less an afterthought. Just because someone has that in there doesn't mean that's all there is to them. Honestly it varies person to person. But I get why it might be distasteful to some. To me though there are far worse things. There are far more things that I find personally distasteful, such as - 1. The "I'm a greater deity, gods other child, personal friend of DJ Zero, existed before time, exist on multiple levels of existence at once, feared by mortals everywhere blah blah blah" levels of power, and they are level two. I have no qualms against powerful characters, but at least earn some of it in levels and so on. But I see far more "Zomg I'm so powerful" level twos than actual people roleplaying their incarnate level abilities. 2. Roleplaying powers that are not in any way affiliated with their powersets. Some gentle creation is awesome, sure. But not for example a Fire/thorn blaster who is immortal, instantly regenerates everything, immune to psionics, can speak to spirits, control machines with telepathy, can summon ice cream cones, so on. At least "resemble" your powers is all I ask. 3. The "I'm so special" sorts. The "I'm a half angel, half demon, half werewolf, vampire, troll, who is a high ranking arbiter in Arachnos." Look I applaud originality and creativity, but there is a point where it gets absurd or ridiculous where it just feels like they want attention or to stand out. Honestly? I find a characters story more engaging than what they are. Funny enough, if you actually sit and interact with many such characters, their RP is about as deep as a kiddie pool. They have no goals, no motivations, no problems, no hobbies or interests. As an example, a character of mine who couldn't die. (She was more or less Kenny. She could die, but she just wouldn't stay dead. Dark/Dark Tanker.) What did she do with her time? She learned languages, took up Pottery, literature, and cheese mongering. Yes, she was a highlander cheesemaker. 4. The "I am absolutely perfect" sorts. It is important to have faults and flaws, goals to overcome. If you are perfect with no obstacles, than I would argue your story is already largely behind you. An example would be my main character who is a cyborg, a Robot/Ele MM. Shes fantastic when it comes to technology, but a complete dunce when it comes to anything Magical. to her, its all rabbits and card tricks. No matter how many times its explained to her, she will never "get it." She thinks of magic as a science that changes the rules every day. But she has friends who are experts in magical matters, so when she has a magical problem she goes to them about it. In return, they ask her to reset the clocks on their microwaves, so it works out. Having flaws is what makes a character full, or complete in my opinion. It makes them relatable, and have things to deal with and ways to grow. My two cents on things. Sure, sometimes there is TMI in Bio's, but not all of that is strictly NSFW stuff IMO. And not everyone is going to agree on what they like or don't like.

Speaking just for myself and what I do. For me, making alts "is" my game. I enjoy taking a new character, getting them to max level, and seeing the interactions in powers. I spend hours not just tinkering with costumes, styles, backgrounds, (bit OCD when it comes to my characters appearance, theme and such.) I also spend hours in mids tweaking and fine-tuning things. Trying new things. Even going against "conventional wisdom" with builds, AT's, and powersets to see what else is possible. Now one thing you may have neglected to think of, is that power leveling doesn't just dump converters into the market. I also throw up my recipes and salvage. The only things I vendor are white recipes and such. Everything else? Onto the AH it goes. Usually, I list everything for a flat rate of 500 inf, no matter what it is. (I am sure that might give the market players a chuckle.) but I don't care to spend the time to play the market to squeeze out as much profit as possible. Things pretty much always immediately sell. From purple recipes, to salvage, etc. I don't even turn EMP merits into merits and flip them to converters. I am usually the one buying converters off the market to make my sets, because often its cheaper to buy multiple copies and turn them into what you need to finish your set. EMP merits to me are more important than money, so I can get my T3's. I usually only go full T4's if I really enjoy the character. Sometimes I keep a character around. Sometimes I shelf them. Sometimes I completely strip them down and recycle the materials. It depends really. I just finished making a Demons/Storm MM, and while powerful isn't for me, so will recycle everything shy of EMP merits I used on her and use them on a new Demons/Nature MM I made. And all it costs me is time, some unslotters, and the odd few changes in IOs I may make. But the majority of it? I have already used on other characters. Just wanted to highlight that not everyone, not even farmers are flipping merits and selling 10000 converters. Many of us farmers actually don't spend very much each time we make an alt. I suspect I have 2-3 sets of each AT set now, with similar copies of all the purple sets as well. Sometimes I'll find something I need and buy it. But most of it I have already on a shelf waiting for when I need it. Just saying what I do personally. I doubt it's the case for everyone, but for us with alt-itis I suspect it might be similar. It's how we spend time in our game - making alts. That is far more enjoyable to me than running high level content. I enjoy the theory crafting, the math, seeing the interactions of effects and bonuses and so on. I find it mentally stimulating.

No, I was referring to Tso's post about their suggestion to remove emp merits from leveling entirely, which would more or less screw over players who mainly solo play. Far as I am aware that isn't happening and thank goodness for that.

Okay, seriously, why are some upset that vet levels give Emp merits. For reals. You want them, what, to be entirely awarded 1-2 at a time from trials? And you think that by gatekeeping them will have a positive effect? And that by giving people artificial and needless steps to accomplish they will be more motivated to do trials? I mean, let's play hypothetical here. Let's say that *gasp* someone levels entirely and completely in the AE by themselves all the way from level 1 to full T4'd 50 and doesn't step a foot outside of the AE except to tailor with costumes, put stuff on the AH, and so on. What biz is that of yours? To me that sounds more like people who take issue with that, are more focused on "I do trials, therefore only I deserve t4 powers!" even though that player A and player B will likely never interact with one another. Which further leads me to hypothesize that such people get more sense of accomplishment by keeping other people down, more than focusing on themselves. "They got the same thing I did by doing something I didn't. It's not fair. Take it away from them" which is pretty much the same thing as kids on a playground, one group of kids doing their thing, and another group something else. And one group going to the teacher saying "Teacher teacher! They are having just as much fun doing something else! Take their ball from them! Make them play with us!" Keep it up and that group of kids might find themselves on an empty playground going "Why isn't there anyone else to play with?" Food for thought.

Unpopular opinion - Honestly? I don't really care. I have never turned EMP merits into normal merits. As someone who likes to level up many alts, more than I do so doing high end team content, EMPs are far more precious to me than merits are. If i need something I will turn the merits I get from normal story arcs or just spend some of the INF I have banked to get it. For mainly solo players, EMPs are much harder to get than merits or INF. My two cents.

My top favorites - 1. Robot/Electric MM - Strong enough to solo, gives valuable support effects that not other people can. 2. Demons/Time MM - Just overall around strong, only thing its really missing is -regen and +end tools. 3. Bio/EM Tanker - It just feels so good to be both near unkillable, and still waylay into those Elite Bosses for 700-800. 4. SoA - Crabber - A hover-blaster sort of build, focusing on DEF and Resists, not recharge. You can still use pets, but you feel like a flying tanker with 45% all def and 85% res, with ranged powers. And all those powers have built in debuffs like -DEF or -RES. I tried the recharge builds people often suggest, and it felt like it lacked oomph. But my version is absurdly durable, with ranged attacks, strong AoE and buffing capabilities. With pets!

I don't think you can actually do that, as you would gain a few vet levels before unlocking your slots. I have had a full T4 sub vet lvl 10 though, but I can't recall what exact her vet level was. But it was pretty early on.

Me? Keep stockpiling them. I need EMP merits for alts and their incarnates far more than merits and the assorted things that normal merits can get me. I have piles of money aplenty. But Emp merits? Once you hit higher vet levels they become a precious resource if you don't like doing team things. Sure, I might be full T4'd on my main characters, but not all my alts or other builds I want to try. Often I immediately open up a new 50s alpha and slot their T3 Alpha just for that level shift, especially if its a pet class. And it is so nice to not have to claw to that first level shift when you have the resources already. And its a simple matter to refill them once that new alt hits a few vet levels. So its largely a self-replenishing resource, so long as you earn back as much as you spent. Honestly, I am surprised people convert them. Personally I have never considered such a thing. So you can get inf and make it easier to initially gear up? Why not just spend the 100k or so getting yourself set for 20-30 levels, and see if you like it first. That way you get to keep your emp merits for characters you really like instead of just wasting them on builds before someone even knows they will enjoy them. But that's just me.

And then they went on to add more things that made the game easier, which suggests they made a game that took too long originally and corrected it. Like it or not, you are pick and choosing your argument. You want the "Base" game to be the legit form of play and ignore all the changes afterward that made the game easier, faster, more alt friendly. So why is only the "original hard mode" of the game the "real" game, and not aaalll the changes and updates after? Nope. Sorry, but nope. They added things to make the game more casual and alt friendly. No matter how much some people wish otherwise!

Orly? Where is that written? Or is that just an assumption on your part? Call it a hunch, but that sounds more like a "you" expectation than a HC host or community expectation. And I can guarantee you if teaming is "forced" you will find a whole lot fewer people to team with, as there is likely far more solo players than people who run exclusively team content. Teaming up is an "option" not a "requirement" or even "expectation." Encouraged? Perhaps. Which is the whole crux of the argument. Some people think only people who team/run epic content should have fully advanced and powered characters. You want to turn character progression into raid loot. This isn't World of Warcraft, and thank god for that.

Hello forums, happy Friday! Am tinkering with a pet project - a new Tanker. I am going to go Bio Armor, but am sort of stuck on which Primary to pair with it. I would like to go Titan Weapons, Super Strength, or maybe Claws if any of those 3 make an exceptional pairing with Bio Armor for Tankers, but am open to suggestions. I know Titan Weapons/Bio used to be a great pairing, but I am unsure how TW performs now after the change, I haven't played a TW in almost two years. Is TW pretty decent on a Tanker, or is it kind of bad now? I "rarely" see TW anymore, so that makes me wonder. Was it "over-nerfed" or is it in a "decent place" now, or is it just "bad?" Super Strength also looks like it might be good, but I have never played SS before and not sure how to manage the rage crash. As I understand it, Rage is like a Buildup or Aim that boosts damage, but after its done for 10 seconds you do little damage, and take a penalty to defense. Apparently this can be built around, but I am not sure if Rage should be used in a rotation like an attack, or even double stacked, or should it be saved for the alpha hit like Aim sometimes is. I have read lots of posts elsewhere about Super Strength, but it never goes into detail on the best use/timing for Rage. The only "guide" I saw about it was not to keep rage on Auto cast, and that Super Strength is a little weak in the AoE, at least until you get the Goomba Stompy. I see lots of comments pairing Bio Armor with Claws, but I think that is more of a scrapper build more than tanker? I know claws has good AoE with the spin2win, but not sure if the single target damage works decent on tankers or not. I know Energy Melee hits quite hard, but I already have an Energy Melee/Bio Armor character, and would prefer to do something else. I also already have Dual Blades, Radiation Melee, and Katana characters as well. I also would like to avoid the 1 handed weapons, as it just looks off or funky to me. Sets like Axe, Mace, Broadsword, having a weapon in one hand and an empty other hand always looked awkward and I could never get into it. I also have zero experience with like, Fire Melee, Ice Melee, Dark Melee, and Stone Melee. I know Savage/Bio is pretty good on a brute because Fury affects the bleeds, but I think that might be weak in comparison on a tanker. So I guess the question is, which would be best for a Bio Tanker - Titan Weapons, Super Strength, or Claws? Or any secondary's that SHINE on a tanker that I haven't considered yet? Thanks bunches!

Yes that was all 3 combined.

@ShardWarrior @Bionic_Flea @America's Angel Okay, just did a test and here are my info and figures. Map - Biggs Comicon S/L Asteroid Characters - 3 Boxing MM - Robot/Electric, Robot/Time, and Robot/Kinetic Time to clear - 3:44 Total net Inf gained - 8,285,670 8,285,670/3.44= 2,408,625 inf/Minute Note - this is flat inf gain only, no drops/recipes were taken into account as it is random. Dunno if this will help as it is 3 boxing, but here it is. PS - the net Inf/Hour would be - 144,517,500, not taking drops/salvage into account.

Sure. Side A) AE needs to be nerfed more. Side B) AE needs to be nerfed less. Or increase non AE stuff to make them more balanced.

I agree. It is annoying. For two years now its been posts precisely about "play our way." To the anti AE crowd - "it's one little change. Its not THAT bad! Stop whining, its making things more equal!" To the AE crowd - "Yet one more bit of dry land lost on an already shrinking island." I am fine with "tweaks" or "tuning." But going back to the start, what has been suggested here and elsewhere has run from the "remove AE rewards entirely" all the way up to and including "reset the economy" which to my mind is a very far cry from balancing and tuning. And I think its pretty funny how that rebalancing has always gone a certain way, and never in the reverse in an effort to make things equal. And they always seem to take the most extreme example of what one group is capable of, not the "typical." The majority of farmers don't farm for 8+ hours a day, heck I don't even think AFK farmers are the majority now, not going by what I've seen hanging out in the AE nowdays. Theres still spines/fire sure, but mostly I see things like Earth Sets, or Scrappers, or even Tankers. The typical spines/fire brute is actually becoming rarer and rarer to see, at least when I am in the AE. So yes, to some of us in the farm crowd, it most certainly has been 100% "play our way and you'll like it" this entire time. Past changes. Present changes. And I expect future changes as well.

I intend to post my numbers for my 3 box farm when I get home, but a few quick thoughts - Not everyone farms the same way - some have spines/fire brutes built for afk farming, other people take their level 50s and go farm on like, +2 or +3/8 or whatever they can handle. Not everyone farms with Elite Bosses on. Some do it with full teams, others do it strictly solo. And others still sit and do the math to figure out what is the best active farming, and then do that. Point being, is even if you average all of the different styles/considerations, there will still be a very wide margin as far as what the kiss elbow "average" is. And if you base changes around that, you do more harm to the "have not's" than the "haves." Because the haves can take the losses and press on, while the "have not's" can't, and it's then even more difficult for them to "catch up." So the gap between the two, the "haves" and "have not's" got further apart, not closer. If the "AE balance" is tuned around the assumption of AFK farming, or the "maximum possible inf gained/hour" it will only unbalance things further. And you are not taking into speed running into account, or managing multiple accounts for "world content", or account/character longevity. And honestly, my response is "who care's?" So what if AE gives better inf/exp. Where is it written that trials/story content is even supposed to be the "lead dog" in all rewards? I mean, if you want to split hairs here and want all activities to be equal, with respect to accolades, badges, titles, drops, bonus guaranteed merits/incarnate materials, then it shouldn't matter if someone is running random patrol missions, or just flying around killing random npcs on the street, or running incarnate content. Right? For argument sake. Lets say the AE vanished overnight. Gone. POOF! Pixies stole it in the night. Do you think the economy would be suddenly balanced? No. No it would not. Here is what I expect would happen, in an extreme example. (Not saying this would happen with certainty, only what can happen.) - Firstly, unless it was fixed, the community would grow smaller. It would be intellectually dishonest to presume that the ease of access of Inf/resources in order to keep making alts is not keeping players here, and more people would leave than new players going "Oh wow, they got rid of AE, I'm going to Homecoming now! That's just what I was waiting for!" Secondly, the big brains who still wanted to play would figure out the next most expediently profitable activity. It might be a mission. Or story arc. Whatever. That will become the new AE that will be ran into oblivion. Followed shortly after by new posts of "Nerf X mission" on the forums. Thirdly, after a few months the supply on the auction house would noticeably drop, making all those critical Enhancements that nearly every build uses - Gladiator, Shield Wall, LotG +recharge, and so on would become increasingly more expensive and rarer. This is also assuming that the big brains who play the market don't immediately realize this and suddenly buy them all up to sit on them and sell them for a massive profit later. Fast forward a bit of time, and a build could go from 400 or so mil to fully kit out, to over 1 billion, and will only get worse as time goes on. And normal people who don't farm or play the market, would be more likely to hold onto the ones they have, leading to an even further drop in supply. Fourth, with all this in mind - fewer people playing, a much slower and more expensive market, the richer people only getting richer, and the gap between them and the poorer only widening, it could lead to staleness or a sluggish trade economy. Gamers have seen this in several other MMO's, so I don't expect any different here. In summary - the haves would have more, the have nots would have less, with fewer people playing, and vastly more expensive requirements to fully equip a character. Again, not saying for CERTAIN this would happen, only what "can" happen. But one thing I do know for a fact is, is that it wouldn't cause "more" people to do "endgame" content, if that is what the anti-AE people are expecting. It wouldn't become, say, several groups of people running things everyday. Unless of course, "that" became the new "farm." And then that one activity would be run to oblivion. And we would see posts of "nerf the drops in this thing" all over again.

You can disable it from applying to you from Null the Gull I believe. I have never done such a thing before, but do recall hearing that was a thing, IIRC.

I use Masterminds to farm, 3 of them at a time. It's pretty fun and exciting actually! That's one reason why I like it so much. "Farming" doesn't even feel like "farming" to me when I do it like that. Plus where else can I get the "It's my army against your army!" Playstyle? I just put on some Hells March, and watch my Robotic Army set fire to everything. Plus fighting 80+ enemies at once is a unique experience. Show me a trial or mission where you can do that. 😁

For me it's triple-boxing Masterminds! But not everyone multiboxes, I know. In seriousness, there are a number of builds that could do S/L farms. But you may want to consider if you want to use that character for anything else besides farming. Because the "best" farmer may not be of use elsewhere when doing other things. As an example, I can use my Masterminds to power farm, but when on a team I can sink into a support/buffing/healer role, which gives wonderful versatility on the same character, without even having to change my build or change a single enhancement slot. For me I favor interactive gameplay with options in combat, it keeps things interesting. That's why I began farming with Masterminds in the first place, I found brute and tanker farming to be mind numbingly boring. It would make me sleepy and need a nap. (well that and I usually adore pet classes in games.) Food for thought!