HelBlaiz

Thank you, captain!

I imagine the buffs are more for the aoe holds that make Controllers jealous and less worried about a pbaoe knockdown, but time will tell.

Other control sets get their pet essentially 24/7 (barring untimely deaths between casts) but Mass Confusion is up at best every minute and a half or so and only affects one fight. That's no good.

Speaking of StJ, at the right height, Rib Cracker looks like it's cracking a pair of something else.

What'd you binary about my mother?

Dark definitely has the worst. Single target with a chance to MISS! Buff that please!

That is a fair point! However another damage aura is still free efficiency in Spines favor.

There are a not insignificant number of afk farmers, from what I understand. That requires pbaoes that aren't Momentum dependent, and made better with an additional pbaoe aura. Aka, Spines and Rad farm better not because they do better in aoe, but because they're less hands on.

Has anyone run the numbers on that? I imagine with 18%+ MOAR damage on all its attacks over the formula, it'd be incredibly strong regardless of AT.

I didn't see the Tar Patch changes being all that DOOOOOM, personally. Dark Miasma is still a solid set.

I'm not really comforted by the term 'rework' used to describe the work they're doing on TW either, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Be cautiously optimistic, if you will. They could keep Momentum, increase the duration and balance the numbers to be fair. I'd be alright with a bit less damage for 10 second long Momentum instead of five for example.

It seems like the fact that the devs WANT to make new challenging endgame content is exactly why they're doing a balance pass on outliers is being over looked. They want to make sure every AT/powerset combo can manage to complete whatever it is they're making without trivializing it. So anything that would be impossible to succeed in the hypothetical new content is being brought up to respectable performance, while anything so good it could breeze through without issue is being tweaked downward. This isn't about nerfing sets to make people happy, it is to make sure they can create content that is both challenging yet fair for everyone going forward, regardless of powersets. WITHOUT making three separate difficulty tiers for low/mid/high tier combos.

I'm sure I could scrounge some 50,000,000 inf to match Luminara's contribution. From the sound of it, you'd need some base editors, but I can't say I'm confident enough to help out in that way.

I filed the effects of build/spend, db combos, etc under 'opinion' so I dont think calling it misinformation is fair. I do agree with the sentiment that power interplay mechanics are superfluous and shouldn't be put in unless deemed absolutely necessary.

@Super Atom with all due respect, if the only thing keeping you from being barked at was the lack of a named target, the you probably shouldn't have made the accusation in the first place. If memory serves (and I'm not confusing different threads) the statements made about Energy Melee include: It is currently Not Good It was once Pretty Good It was a Single Target focused set Single Target focused sets aren't favored as high as AoE focused sets Its level of performance in its Pretty Good days might not be all that amazing in the modern day It is a simple, straight forward set with little interplay in its abilities New sets have interplay built into their abilities Another set with some overlapping powers got a buff that included power interplay Its secondary effect of Stun is less impactful due to its Single Target focus I think those are the gist of any listed facts about the set so far. Did I miss anything?

Who is spreading misinformation?

I dont think anyone here would be against adding more buffs to the set if reverting nerfs didn't do enough to help the set find a niche as a single target contender. We're just arguing that any changes to improve the set should start from the point in its career when it was at its best. From there, we can talk about buffing WH to perform where it should, addressing Stun, etc. I personally love the disorient secondary effect, but I will agree it isn't all that great against EBs and AVs, which would be nice for a ST ser.

Then, after the one month of unnerfed EM, we can talk about additional changes.

As someone who only ever got to play EM post nerf, I would love the opportunity to play the pre nerf version. I think the devs should revert the nerfs, which seem like relatively quick changes (alter timing on ET to work with Power Thrust's animation and make TF a mag 4 stun again if I understand correctly), then let it loose on the beta server for about a month. Let the numbers and simulations guys do their thing, see how people like the feel of that, THEN look into tweaking everything else, including adding a mechanic if deemed necessary, if/when the set still proves to be underperformed still.

No I gave an example of a time I felt like dead weight.

Speaking from the perspective of a inv/tw tanker equipped with SOs in a team with IOd out SG mates, including a dark miasma Corruptor who was tankier than I was (or felt like it), I felt like deadweight. Not because I wasn't participating, but because it didn't feel like anyone needed me to tank an alpha or hold aggro. That is less to do with powerset selection than build completion, but it is still an example of participation not being enough to feel relevant or impactful. I'm also not advocating every set being able to clear a map as quickly as Spines (or any other aoe centric set). Spines whole thing is aoe. Another set like Martial Arts would be better for fighting a single tough enemy, while bringing extra crit/parry and mitigation through kb/stun. They excel at different things, and are fun to play for different reasons. But if three people ask for three separate things (what set fights AVs well, what set clears groups fast, what set adds extra protection) and all get the same factually accurate answer (TW has great ST in Rend Armor and Follow Through, TW has good aoe in Arc of Destruction and Whirling Smash, and TW has a parry in Defensive Sweep plus kd in Titan Sweep and Whirling Smash and a stun(?)/kd in Follow Through) something is wrong. Other sets could definitely use a buff as mentioned earlier by Zeraphia, but some are also too good at too many things to let other sets shine. You can decide to play another set for your own reasons despite another set performing better, but it can be a bitter taste to others knowing the set they like is overshadowed by a set that has no real trade off.

There is something to be said for flavor and aesthetic appeal. I don't just play TW, I pick what makes an interesting character. I had a dark/energy tanker on live I got to incarnate level despite both sets being less than ideal for my io ignorant ways. That doesn't mean a set should be overshadowed at its core mechanical appeal.

The point of balance is that every option in a game should be valid, as others have mentioned. Different powersets for example shouldn't be objectively better than another, just good in its own way. One is good at single target and brings sustain, another is good at aoe and mitigation, which is better depends on what you want. The issue of balance comes up when one set starts being the mathematically "right" choice for most metrics. The issue with Titan Weapons isn't that it's good at aoe, the issue is it is good at aoe and single target and has good mitigation built into the set (kd and a parry). The only thing it doesn't provide is sustain (Dark Melee's claim to fame). Why play fire melee when TW does everything it does and plays safer? Why play Energy Melee when TW does everything it does and has amazing aoe? Why play spines when TW does everything it does and has good single target?

That leaves anyone curious to TRY pvp with the task of either catching up to the veterans, gearwise, or failing to have any impact whatsoever due to lack of build. One regular pvper with a completed build vs another regular pvper with a completed build might come down to skill, but if someone shows up with SOs just to see what the deal is, I doubt they'd see it that way. THAT, combined with combative individuals (not competitive) who waste newbies because they can are why I don't have much interest to try PvP. Someone mentioned getting a toon to 50 with a full build is more than possible in one day. They mentioned it like that was super easy, barely an inconvenience, but that is one whole day devoted to making a character to TRY pvp. If the character turns out to be hot garbage, then another day has to be spent making a new character and/or a completely new set of IOs. It might be easier than on live, but that is too much commitment of time/resources just to hang out with the cordial, competitive crowd without feeling like fodder.

I was willing to say nothing would get me into PvP in CoH, but I read through the thread and realized there IS something that would make me interested in trying it. Specifically, removing all grinding and marketeering requirements to put together a competitive build. Before I got fed up with the toxicity and everyone I played with quit, I used to play League of Legends in the dark times. Outside of purchasing runes, everyone entered the match with the same amount of resources. If all it took to try out a high end PvP build was to decide what AT/powersets I wanted my new level 50 to be and take the time to slot them up with free high-end gear, then it would be more inviting. Essentially, pvp would have beta server jerk hacking to make experimentation with pvp builds as accessible as possible.