boggo2300

I cleaned up the double quote as well as my phone would let me 🙂 i don't mind villain rivalries, but honestly apart from a very few robberies or even fewer visit an instance of Paragon mishes that's pretty much ALL there is red side, I just don't want all my villains running around being used as not even henchmen, just dupes for Arachnos, getting to raid CoT or Family etc time after time it's not immersive to me, plus I hate the zones of the ri the whole point of villain play to me would be playing outside societies rules to get what you want, and honestly to me, villains in this games just feel like heroes with poor attitude

So maybe your 15th level character gets sent to rob Paragon Savings & Loan, in King's Row; it turns out to be a front for Family money laundering operation, so surprise there's Family goons inside, allied to the usual bank security types. And on your way out, along comes "Red Falcon" and his plucky young sidekick, Sparrow, to try and foil your dastardly plot. If you succeed, you'll get quite a bit of Infamy and Experience (after all, you just knocked over a Mob bank and kicked a Cape's teeth in). THAT, instead of the Paper, would have let people feel truly like their own villain, instead of being a lackey. And really, the Newspaper almost does that. It just doesn't let you fill out any of hte "broad framework" parts of the Mad Lib yourself. You only get "rob a bank", if the system pulls that one out of the hat as one of the three options ... so you're still not really in control of what kinds of crimes you commit, let alone where or against who. For example, if you have a Fire/Poison Corruptor, named Arsonic, maybe you almost always go for "Arson" overall mission types ... or you have a Cold/Cold Dominator named The Krampus and always go for Kidnapping missions ... or a Brute, any sort of Brute, named Dyzaster Zone who always goes for mayhem-style "break all the things" Rampage missions ... and OH HEY, now the crimes you commit, fit your concept for what kind of villain you've decided to play! Sadly, that's not what we got, so that only compounds the "must be suitable for a 12 year old" limitations of Villain storylines. 😞 Again, I wasn't talking about more real world style content that would increase the rating of the game, just content that was written in a way that made you feel like you were in control of your destiny rather than doing hero missions (usually against the same opponents even) with the serial numbers filed off. Your idea that I kept in the quote above would be a perfect solution to that. My first 50 villain on live was an independent mad scientist MM who had no interest in Arachnos or any of the other villain groups, he was only a villain because he wanted resources to perfect his inventions, he was amoral, so had no qualms about killing to get his way, but he also never would have gone out of his way to hurt anyone, the entire story arc red side didn't work with his character (even the pointless chose a Merc or Arachnos thing on Mercy, which holds true for a single contacts worth of content) I would have loved your idea to have been around, but I suppose my main gripe is red side content has you actually doing the exact same thing as heroes do, with some very poorly written justifications in the mish text.

True, but my point was more red side content is the same as blue side content even when that makes little sense for a villain. And I have no interest in making villain content for red side, I'm just saying the content you need red side to level isn't very villainous

Well part of that though is how much later in the games life it was written... It's not even the lack of truly evil things you do, it's the whole fetch and carry, and fight this villain group, oh, and then fight this villain group, oh, and this villain group you are part of (Arachnos) will attack you on site, even if you are a VEAT... that is probably the most jarring thing about red side

Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online just for starters

No CoV you don't really do anything villainous at all, if anything you are a sucker being used as a patsy, NONE of my villains in live had a back story that worked with any of the mission arcs in the way they were written

While I agree with you, and think missions should just level with your character, it's not that weird a design choice as pretty much every MMO did it

Galaxy city tutorial is terrible, the legacy ones are much better teaching aides for newbies, I do the Galaxy city one precisely because you can blast through it faster than the others because it is so well, empty...

Fair enough, and best of luck to anyone that tries it, personally not my cup of tea, I actually despise red side on this game, everything about it just doesn't work for me, the content seems deliberately written to prevent your villains being well, villainous, but thats just me, and more power to those that enjoy it, I hope the people that do enjoy it find more people to play with

In an heroic effort to bring the thread back on topic <pauses for applause> I don't see how Classic WoW will affect player numbers here at all, Of the regular folks I play with, only one ever played WoW and he stopped in about 2006... Honestly to my understanding (never having played WoW) the games are so completely different I am surprised so many think there is much overlap (and I remember on Live how every time a WoW expansion dropped all these WoW players showed up who had rage quit, then left after a few days because the gameplay was so different)

It's no secret it's there, people aren't not running red side because they don't know it's there... And the red/blue disparity was there in live as well, it's just not fun to most people is the only conclusion I can draw (I know it isn't to me)

To me there is nothing compelling or even just not eye-rolling about the missions red-side, nothing in any of those missions feels even remotely villainous, plus the level design of the zones in the Rogue Isles are just a pain in the butt to navigate for no real reason. So I have on Vigilante and one Rogue both for character reasons, neither have done any red side content and aren't likely to

Anything with even the chance of forcing me into a PVP zone (hell I'm still unhappy about the pvp badges) gets a huge NO WAY from me

SNEAKY! sounds like Stalker behaviour to me!

thats not being a team leader, thats being an ass

So where is the pant's rack, just because we were pantsless doesn't mean we were barbarians!

Cell-Shading was there in live, just looked terrible and chewed up all the RAM the game could use real fast!

Awesome idea! I second, third and fourth it!!

that there sounds like a toon that needs to be made!

Maybe... I admit nothing!