Blackfeather

I definitely can imagine myself using this feature during the lower levels - I prefer going through them myself, and IO sets take a while to come into play, usually during the 20s and 30s, so this looks rather useful, thank you!

Might be a good idea for the devs to look into getting the proc working properly first in that case - I do think that the Sleep powers would be better off doing different things from Fortunata Hypnosis myself. I think the idea behind it is to stop aggro? I know it describes itself as a Placate, but those are broken by attacks anyway to my knowledge, which sounds...not helpful.

Hmm...on the one hand, it does make sense, but on the other, it does make you wonder what Fortunata Hypnosis' proc of placating is supposed to do, if anything, hahah.

Personally I think it makes sense to make any secondary effects of Sleeps customised depending on the effect it's abstracted as, per the suggestions in this thread. For example, Salt Crystals would be better being more durable, its duration shortening with every attack a slept enemy takes, due to them being trapped in a fragile prison. In comparison, a power that actually causes an enemy to fall asleep (such as Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis) would make sense to be flavoured as going prone, and being forced to get up, hence the suggestion of it in the original post.

Cheer up! At least it's not as bad as all those Force Field forum posts. 😉

Yes.

Ideas inspire ideas that inspire ideas that inspire ideas...it's definitely great that there's a lot of people who want to improve the powerset, and that they have their own ideas on how to get there! 😄

Welcome to the forums! Hopefully you liked the proposed updates - the Sleep-inflicting powers were one of the aspects I focused on here, amongst other powers such as Telekinesis. If you've any other suggestions about Mind Control from experience, do post them!

Thanks! I'm aware that the changes do sound rather large, but I thought that they'd fit the way Mind Control works. At least for Telekinesis: I've heard that vectored knockback is now a thing - it's how that April Fool's Brawl power was able to knock enemies in different directions. It made me wonder if a similar system were possible for dragging enemies around. If it is possible (not saying it'd be easy to do of course), then it'd be amazing if it were the case for sure. That being said, the only real way to get confirmation one way or another is to have a dev comment on it; if I can inspire any one of them to respond...well, that'd be absolutely amazing. 😄 And yeah! Sleeps are great solo, but they can be a bit harder to work with in fast paced groups - making enemies prone helps to provide a form of control in those kinds of teams. A short-lived stun when damaged by Mind Control's Terrify/Levitate also means that they can be strengthened on command, adapting to the situation.

Since when did I say I was forced to play differently? Please don't misconstrue my post as disliking how the game is, or disliking Incarnates. I'm not even asking the system to be changed. All I said was that it's unfair to dismiss others for enjoying a different style of gameplay that some parts of the game offers.

I'm curious: what was the game pacing like in this "old style" that you're describing, and what would you say caused the shift? Is it primarily just crashless nukes and Judgement powers, or other factors as well?

Personally I don't think that's entirely fair - CoH appeals to plenty of people for different reasons. If that 'old style', however that is defined, is indeed enjoyed by people, who are we to say that it's any less valid of a reason to enjoy the game than the 'new' style? Especially since the fast paced, AoE-heavy nature of the game only really manifests itself at the higher levels, when Incarnates, nuke powers, etc. become a thing.

That's fair! Personally I think it makes the most sense for Telekinesis to have this level of finesse - being able to deposit enemies around where desired (albeit at a slower pace than say Wormhole) sounds like the ideal for such a power. What kind of engine limitations does this idea run up into, out of curiosity?

Neither do I! It's why I'm suggesting it. 😄

Thinking over your suggestions, what do you think of this implementation of Telekinesis, @Psi? These changes would be made with the intent of making Telekinesis primarily a positioning tool with some controls on the side, rearranging enemies on the battlefield. Rather than flat out increasing the target cap of how many enemies it can Hold to 16, it enhances it, but does so in a somewhat more focused manner. At least, that's the hope.

Yup! I considered Telekinesis to be a potent power that has the potential to manipulate the battlefield, moving enemies around while also gathering them together. By being able to control where it moves around instead of just sending it off in a single direction, it'd essentially be able to 'group' mobs up in a ball of Holding/Immobilisation. The (tentative) addition of having Levitate affect all targets affected by Telekinesis if it knocks up the original target would also be nice as a way of providing some further soft control for enemies not fully Held (and merely moved/Immobilised) by the power, if the target cap were increased, but its effects were weaker past those 5.

Admittedly I didn't really think about the technical details involved with implementing this idea! But it does sound like the implementation that I'm proposing is something along the lines of what you're suggesting - a toggle-summoned pet that scoops up enemies, which you can then control where to go akin to a Mastermind pet. With its small radius, I envision it gathering up any enemies in its vicinity closely together, especially if it's directed into a corner. When I refer to Repel, I sort of meant just a mechanic that moves enemies around in an arbitrary direction, hahah. The main limitation in my implementation comes from the Endurance cost essentially; theoretically, you could keep an enemy in Telekinesis indefinitely if that were overcome, so long as they were not defeated, detoggling Telekinesis in the process when they despawn (I think that's how it works currently). As for the target cap...that's an interesting thought. At the very least, affecting them all with an immobilise makes sense, I think, while also allowing them to be moved about. I can see the effect 'fading out' at the edges after a certain limit, the magnitude of the Hold being stronger for the first few targets, and weaker on the others. Very interesting for sure!

Redlynne and I have made two different Mind Control adjustment threads with separate focuses. We both did our best to keep the powerset's identity, while providing some additions to the set.

If I had to guess, a lot of people choose Controller primaries based on their damage potential (for some reason). Looking at the stats, the most played are Fire, Illusion, Gravity and Plant Controllers.

It'd definitely be nice if there were more opportunities to make the Sleep status effect useful. That being said, it's a status effect that's predicated on the team not doing enough damage to handle everything at once. To be fair, the same could be said of all status effect powers (best mez is dead and all that), but Sleep gets hit the worst by it.

Likewise, I do as well. (...sorry Red. Again, bias. 😅)

That's...kind of the textbook example of what hijacking is. 😛 Jokes aside, it's a potential thought for sure. Though I don't really think Illusion Control needs the help.

Why only Defenders?

Snrk. But yes, Seeds of Confusion is quite overtuned. While it's not a bar that Mass Confusion ought to surpass/reach, it does throw the limitations of Mind Control's T9 in stark contrast, even though it has some downsides of its own (drawing aggro and as such encouraging aggressive play to the detriment of other playstyles being the main one). Synaptic Overload also does this*, albeit to a lesser degree. * Referring to throwing Mass Confusion's limitations into stark contrast, not encouraging aggressive play.

To be fair, Mass Confusion is a very nice power, but it's fairly overshadowed in a few ways - at the very least, its accuracy could be lifted up to baseline (especially since Mind Control claims to have accuracy as one of its features), along with a lower recharge time; it has its own advantages, so I think that bringing it down to 60 seconds is a bit much, but a partial reduction would be nice. Redlynne suggested a number of 180s, and I'm inclined to agree. Thanks! That was one potential use cases that I thought of - along with Telekinesis, it'd provide a way of setting up Containment for Mind Controllers by providing Disorients and Immobilises respectively. They're not going to compete with a Flashfire or a Heart of Darkness, but it lets Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis work nicely in fast paced groups, along with Mind Controllers who prefer speed over safety. Though as a heads up, Terrify doesn't have -ToHit; only Fearsome Stare does. The main difference between them is that Terrify does damage and has a wider (90 degrees vs. 45), if shorter cone (60 vs. 70, I believe).