Blackfeather

It's a pleasure! I do like a good amount of those suggestions - my ones didn't really look at the code behind all these things, nor numbers since that's not really my strong point. I personally hope for the right technology to come around for my Telekinesis suggestion to be implemented myself, but I can see Levitate working as a means of controlling Repel somewhat as something rather nice too. Making Terrorize trigger Containment is an interesting thought; I reasoned that with my idea of Telekinesis also providing Immobilise, along with the shorter lived stuns when a target is slept by Mass Hypnosis/Mesmerize and awakened by Levitate/Terrorize, they'd work as a way to do so. And of course the whole pie in the sky thing of having Levitate act on multiple Telekinesis'd enemies when used on the right target would contribute to damage as well. They're both definitely different ways of achieving the same goal, and I can see pros and cons to both. Course, I personally am biased to my stuff, but that's just natural. 😉

I get the feeling that a lot of my replies here are going to be self quotes. 😆

Yup! Seeds of Confusion draws aggro:

Oh of course - hence my talk of Seeds being overtuned; Mass Confusion is a great power that just happens to be somewhat overshadowed by two of its closest comparisons. Mass Confusion does have its advantages, such as being the best out of the three in terms of expediency and safety. But I think making its accuracy higher is fair, and perhaps a decreased recharge time, though the actual numbers I left open to discussion, since I'm not the best with them. Yup! It's why I made Telekinesis pull double duty as both an Immobilize and a Hold. I didn't want to make other forms of status effects trigger containment, just because I saw that as changing the game system itself, and that the introduction of the Dizzied! mechanic would also provide Mind Controllers with more ways of doubling their damage, if they were so inclined to go that route too. And yeah, that's why I brought Levitate up to Lift's damage and animation speed - they're basically identical powers, and probably were identical before Gravity Control's power update. And you know, increasing Terrorize's damage is an interesting idea! After all, it costs more endurance than Fearsome Stare, so having a larger amount of damage that takes that into account makes sense. I don't think it'd be a problem if one could use Levitate on the target of Telekinesis multiple times myself - Telekinesis uses up a boatload of endurance; so if many attacks are used, it'd be put to an end quite quickly. It's also very thematic; after all that hard work slamming enemies into the ground, it'd be bound to be draining! It's quite possible that that's the case. On the other hand, since the code is a black box, I think it's fine to go a little wild with the implementation - hence the change to Telekinesis for example. While feasibility is of course a bit of a concern, I didn't want that to get in the way of ideas that I thought would be nice, you know? If it ends up inspiring the devs and has them think "hey, that's really cool", then my job's done. 😄

Actually, that was a suggestion I made in the original post!

I posted about having the option to create a personal supergroup base a while back; being able to join a supergroup while having your own easily accessible place would be nice. Of course, there's workarounds to that via base-building alts and so on, but it'd be great to have for sure.

Summary of Submitted Suggestions Courtesy of @Vanden: Due to Terrorize costing more endurance than Fearsome Stare, it would make sense to increase its damage, along with bringing up its accuracy This is a variation on the numbers pass in the original post - instead of lowered endurance and higher accuracy, it'd be higher damage and higher accuracy @Redlynne 's post covers Mind Control in a different light. In summary: Implementing Telekinesis differently, using Levitate to control its repel effect Making Terrorize trigger Containment for Mind Controllers They've also suggested some actual numbers adjustments to different powers, which is great! Inspired by @Psi's suggestion of limiting Telekinesis' effectiveness after the first 5 enemies, I created an alternative Telekinesis proposal that implements the tentative Levitate synergies from the original post From @SwitchFade's experience, Terrorize may cause enemies to initially attack the user. This shouldn't be the case - like other Fear powers, it should lock them down immediately

Done in the style of The Philotic Knight's and Trickshooter's powerset buff threads. I've been meaning to collate my thoughts on Mind Control for a while, and now with some added time on my hands, I can. I'll start with some general points before diving into the powers themselves. Reasoning Behind Presented Modifications Mind Control is a very utility driven powerset in a game where force can easily substitute for finesse. On smaller and lower level teams this is perfectly fine, and very potent - it's easy enough to spot a sleeping enemy so as to not attack it, or take some time to herd a group of enemies in the right direction for example. I personally enjoy the fact that Mind Control works this way. However, this doesn't invalidate the fact that it has the potential to make the powerset feel less fun to play in other conditions. While many control powersets in general can feel this way in similar situations, Mind Control especially stands out. As such, the changes below are made with these thoughts in mind. They will attempt to maintain the current feel of the set, and provide improvements that should hopefully be very acceptable. Additionally, they are quite inspired by the improvements that Gravity Control received in Issue 22 - conservative in the 'feel' of the presented powers, while clearly improving on them. As such, I will refrain from: Changing the order of available powers Invalidating or making unappealing playstyles currently available to the powerset Altering powers to prefer a different enhancement slotting setup Making powers behave entirely differently Both of them being in the game from the start, I would not be surprised if Mind Control might have been next to receive some updates. It's in that style that I present the changes below. Mesmerize & Mass Hypnosis: Sleep on the Ground Sleeps are fairly conditional by nature - they take a good amount of finesse to use well: taking an enemy out of the fight and refraining from attacking them is harder than it sounds, especially in a game with a lot of ways of accidentally causing damage. As such, they tend to be much more potent in smaller teams, reducing the likelihood of such accidental damage. A discussion thread about making Sleeps feel impactful in situations outside of these scenarios generally seems to agree that secondary effects alongside the status effect tend to help a good amount in larger group content. One suggestion of which caught my eye, as it fitted very well with Mind Control's theme. Sleeps are flavored in a lot of different ways - enemies convulsing in electric shocks, being trapped in fragile salt, and of course, actually falling asleep; the last of these is what Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis fall under. Given that this is the case, I think it makes sense that enemies inflicted with a Sleep caused by either power would lay prone on the ground (i.e. knockdown). This would mean that to actually act after waking, forceful or otherwise, an enemy would need to stand back up. I would assume that this would be implemented in a way that means enemies already resistant to knockdown would not succumb to this effect, the same as how Ice Control's slows are resisted for example. By implementing this, Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis remain useful, even in conditions other than what is suitable for Sleep-inflicting powers. While their main strengths will always be in strategically taking enemies out of the fight, they will definitely have a good amount of use elsewhere. And I'm not done with them yet either. Introducing... Levitate, Terrify, and Mass Confusion: Number Adjustments All of these powers in Mind Control are perfectly fine. However, this is muddied somewhat due to other, similar powers which in a lot of ways replicate the same effect, but better. While I am not certain on the specific numbers involved, it does mean that some adjustments might be in order to boost them up to the level of equivalent ones. ~~~ Levitate is exactly like Gravity Control's Lift, except it takes a little longer to cast, and deals a bit less damage. I would not be surprised if Lift dealt the same amount of damage as Levitate before its Issue 22 patch as well. Considering that Lift is strictly better in every way, I think duplicating Lift's changes and transplanting them onto Levitate makes a lot of sense. The other two powers are slightly less clear cut. As such, I'll endeavour to list some changes least likely to cause debate, and leave any further numerical changes for other posters. ~~~ The closest equivalent to Terrify is Darkness Control's Fearsome Stare - they are both cone-based powers that inflict the Fear status effect with the same recharge time and duration. They have their comparative pros and cons: Terrify costs much more endurance (more than double) and is less accurate, but it has a wider cone arc (90 vs 45 degrees). It also deals some damage, while Fearsome Stare does not. However, Fearsome Stare also provides -ToHit, and its range is higher (70 vs 60 ft). While there are some benefits to what Terrify provides, I personally think they don't outweigh the cons to that choice - Fearsome Stare's -ToHit debuff is an excellent boon for survivability, and its range is plenty enough to affect enemies. As such, I think that bringing its accuracy up to Fearsome Stare's level, and reducing its endurance cost to some degree sounds reasonable. If others think that the power ought to have more, feel free to add on suggestions! ~~~ Mass Confusion is a very good power, allowing multiple enemies at once to turn and switch to the Mind Controller's side for a long amount of time. However, it can also feel overshadowed at times due to Plant Control's (perhaps slightly overtuned) Seeds of Confusion, along with Electric Control's Synaptic Overload. These are all powers which confuse multiple enemies at once, though with some pros and cons of their own. Here is a breakdown of the three: Mass Confusion Seeds of Confusion Synaptic Overload Area Type Targeted AoE [Ranged and Immediate] Targeted Cone [Immediate but Close] Targeted Chain [Ranged but Gradual] Draws Aggro? No Yes No Duration Higher [37.25s] Higher [37.25s] Lower [27.94s] Level Access Highest [Lv. 32] Lowest [Lv. 8] Middle [Lv. 26] Endurance Highest [26] Middle [15.6] Lowest [8.53] Recharge Long [240s] Slow [60s] Slow [60s] Accuracy Lower [60%] Base [75%] Base [75%] While it's not without its advantages, the comparative drawbacks that Mass Confusion has are fairly impactful. There's no reason for it to have lower accuracy when the other powers are higher, especially since the powerset itself claims to be very accurate! It should at least be as accurate as the others. Along with this, it has a recharge time four times higher than both powers. While I don't advocate having its recharge time adjusted to the same level as the others, having it recharge somewhat faster would be nice. The actual numbers I'll leave to other users to discuss! Telekinesis: Omnidirectional Movement (Alternative Implementation Here) Telekinesis is a very fun power to use, hampered by a few things. At its core, it's a power that is designed to Hold a group and push them away from the user in the process - reshaping the battlefield while rendering the enemy helpless. There are a few issues with this. It's difficult to control where the group should go The power can only affect 5 enemies at a time The high endurance cost (3.12/s!) is not worth these effects The power comes at the same level as Gravity Control's Dimension Shift, and likewise could do with a good amount of changes. However, I did not wish to make it so that the current applications of the power (e.g. bundling a group of enemies up into a corner) are invalidated in the process. With this in mind, here is my proposal: Targeting an enemy with Telekinesis will Hold and Immobilize them, along with other enemies surrounding them (potentially lower Immobilize magnitude). The original target should not be able to move of their own volition - instead, the Mind Controller has the ability to move them wherever they like, dragging the enemy, and other enemies Immobilized/Held with them. The controls would be akin to a Mastermind's pet, except without commands to attack a target - everything else (e.g. GoTo, Stay, Follow) would remain. Essentially, Telekinesis becomes a toggle-summoned pet that surrounds an enemy with a field of holding. While not everything is helpless in that area, they would all be moveable (via Repel), allowing a Mind Controller to rearrange the battlefield in a way that only Gravity Control can really match. To clarify: An enemy targeted by Telekinesis will be Immobilized, and will be moveable regardless of rank They may be Held (mag 3) depending on their level of protection All other enemies are affected as usual by magnitude for Holds (mag 3), Immobilizes (mag 3), and Repels (magnitude pending, open to suggestions) If they are Held/Immobilized, they will move along with the enemy targeted by Telekinesis Finally, the target cap for Telekinesis would be increased. I'd say bringing it in line with the other AoE Holds would make sense - 16 in other words. Here is my reasoning for these changes: Making Telekinesis a toggle-summoned pet means that it gains increased flexibility - enemies can still be shoved into a corner, but they can now also just stay in one spot, follow you around, or even be hovered around in circles Adding the Immobilize status effect also provides Controllers with a way of taking advantage of Containment against tougher enemies Affecting only 5 enemies is quite low, and ought to match the other AoE Holds for better potency These two changes are made with the aim of making the high endurance cost worthwhile (no changes there) This is probably the power with the largest amount of modifications to it. I did my best to increase its potency while keeping the 'feel' of the original Telekinesis, similar to how Dimension Shift was altered in a way that made it more flexible, but its core remained the same. As such, it's also the power that I'm least certain about in terms of changes - did I go too far? Not far enough? Just a bit off the mark? I'll look forward to the responses. A Fictional Patch Notes Summary Issue 2X updated the way Mind Control powers work: Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis can now cause enemies to lay prone on the floor when Slept, forcing them to stand up upon awakening. Levitate's damage and animation times are now identical to Lift's. Telekinesis is an enemy-targeted toggle Mastermind pet that holds and immobilises all enemies around it. Held/immobilised enemies move wherever the pet is directed to move. Target cap has been raised . Terrify's accuracy has been increased, and its endurance usage decreased. Mass Confusion's accuracy has been increased, and its recharge time decreased. Dizzied! mechanic introduced: enemies slept by Mesmerize or Mass Hypnosis will have a Mag 3 stun applied to them when hit by Levitate or Terrify. Duration is dependant on remaining sleep time. And there was (hopefully) much rejoicing. I did my best to keep within the spirit of the powerset, increasing its utility/fun while not dramatically modifying the general feel of them - even Telekinesis does the same thing as before, just more flexibly. A good amount of that involved some number passes, while other parts of the powerset were looked over for additional functionality and flexibility. So with this all said, I turn to the rest of the forums. What do you think? Any changes that you'd do differently, or disagree with? Changes that you really like? I look forward to everyone's responses!

Oh no, you're right! 😆

I agree with that viewpoint. Certainly it's all well and good to feel powerful, but in a way, that's almost an argument to keep an eye on how the game's difficulty looks. When some kinds of characters outshine others to the point that it prevents others from feeling powerful/useful as well, there's clearly something that needs to be looked at there.

Indeed, it's a fairly minor change - only other one was fixing the bit of red on Goldie's sleeve, apparently.

I can't quite comment on game 'difficulty', but I can certainly point out some observations on how it 'feels'. I generally prefer playing at the lower levels and smaller teams, as the pace of the game there feels less focused on rushing from mob to mob through sheer strength, and better allows for other means of handling enemies in a way that still feels relevant (i.e. not outpaced by just dealing a lot of damage). Naturally, I'm aware there's plenty of people who like the opposite - that the lower levels are something not enjoyable because that's the case. The game draws in different people, I suppose.

Venerable might be another potential name.

I'll throw Unshackled and Unbound into the mix.

Seems like that's taken already.

It's a mag 3.5 sleep to my knowledge, making it quite useful for sure.

Per the developer of Island Rum's response.

On the one hand, I don't think anybody agrees that "feeling powerful" is something people don't want to have, especially at maximum level. On the other, people have different definitions of "feeling powerful" that can run counter to different personal interpretations of what this means. For example, when a team steamrolls through content without much help (let's use the 2 Blasters example), is there much need for a Defender's support powers? They can certainly provide some damage of their own, but if they were there to do damage, they'd have rolled up a different archetype. I'd argue that "feeling powerful" for a lot of Defenders comes from "empowering others". And that's not always necessary at the higher levels.

By 'hard or not', I was referring to changing the game code, Lines.

The discussion about 'whether or not this is hard or not' is probably going to be just a back and forth of 'yes' and 'no' unless a dev chimes in, and so by its nature isn't really going to go anywhere.

Another potential idea that's definitely in the Way Out There territory, if we're talking about 'restricting Judgement': what about changing the power into a fast recharging, single target attack? Or even a fast recharging, weaker AoE attack, leaning on the secondary effects that the different powers provide. It'd have a high base accuracy, and would be generally more damaging than most single/AoE attacks are. That'd have the potential to fill out an attack chain for characters that don't really have that, or free up a power pick for those that do out of the box.

Perhaps enemies could gain temporary resistances to subsequent nukes after being hit by a single one? I imagine that a single 'nuker' alone isn't too much of a problem - there'll likely be a good amount of enemies still standing. Not sure what work would be involved doing that sort of thing though.

I can't agree with just plain removing the 4 power pool limit, but I'd definitely be up for making the Origin power pools a separate group akin to the Ancillary/Epic ones. I figure that since they're mostly 'theme/flavor' powers, it shouldn't cause too much of a disruption - they don't really provide much in the way of a 'numbers benefit' (i.e. no easy always-on defence like the Flight/Leaping/Fighting pools). Allow people to pick a travel power that's outside the standard Speed/Leaping/Flying pools that better fits their character sounds fairly reasonable.

There's definitely a difference between "feeling powerful" and "being overpowered to the point of feeling unchallenged/useless".

Hmm...maybe the option to allow players to self-exemplar themselves down to level 44 might be a neat idea when they're doing missions in the 45-50 bracket.