Blackfeather

I decided to take a stab at making a Control powerset that I’ve been tossing around in my head for a while. Manipulating insects was either going to be a Mastermind or Control powerset, but I eventually settled on the latter; I figured it made more sense to direct swarms that way, over having a small group of pets. It’s actually my first time doing something like this, so hopefully it impresses! I don’t have the best of heads for numbers in the game, but I do hope it turned out alright. Especially since this powerset in particular is very focused on numbers, as can be seen in the power breakdowns for each of them. I tried to keep the ‘feel’ of controlling insects throughout – overwhelming enemies through slow, persistent attrition; a game of gradually grinding at things. It sacrifices immediate control for the promise of eventually locking down the entire battlefield. Hopefully it shows through the different powers on display! Insect Control Power Table Power Level Effect Plague 1 Ranged, Moderate DoT (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Knockdown, -DMG Blight 1 Ranged, Moderate DoT (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Hold, -DMG Webbing 2 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DoT (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Immobilize, -Fly, -DMG Swarm Cloud 6 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -Range, -Perception Insect Cloak 8 Toggle: PBAoE, Team Stealth, +DEF(All) Bug Burst 12 PBAoE, Minor DMG (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Fear, -DMG Ground Crawlers 18 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Knockdown, -DMG Infestation 26 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Lethal/Toxic), Foe Hold, -DMG Insect Colony 32 Summon Colonies: Melee, Minor DoT (Lethal/Toxic) Powers Blight Harasses a target with biting and stinging insects, leaving them helpless under the swarm while taking moderate Lethal damage. Multiple applications of Blight are required to incapacitate most enemies, but the target’s ability to deal damage will still be reduced. Damage Moderate Damage over Time (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Fast (5s) Duration 78.22s Minimum Level 1 Effects Ranged Foe Hold (Mag 1), -10% DMG (12s) Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Hold Duration Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Ranged Damage Holds Bug Burst Unleashes a disorienting cacophony of flies, locusts, and other winged insects around you, terrorizing and harming all enemies as they fend them off. Enemies that are unaffected still have their damage reduced from minor bites and stings. Damage Minor (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Slow (40s) Duration 27.94s Minimum Level 12 Effects Point Blank Area of Effect Foe Fear (Mag 3), -10% DMG (12s) Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Fear Duration Increase Attack Rate Set Categories PBAoE Damage Fear Ground Crawlers You cause insects to congregate across the ground, biting and pulling at foes that pass through this location, causing many of them to fall down in pain. The bites and toxins inflicted against them also reduces their ability to deal damage. Damage Minor Damage over Time (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Long (90s) Duration 30s Minimum Level 18 Effects Ranged (Location Area of Effect) Foe Knockdown (Mag 0.67), -10% DMG Enhancements Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Knockback Distance Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Targeted AoE Damage Knockback Infestation You command a cloud of biting and stinging insects to gather at a targeted location. Foes that pass through this location will take minor Lethal damage, and are left swarmed and helpless from numerous bites. Damage Minor Damage over Time (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Long (150s) Duration 60s Minimum Level 26 Effects Ranged (Location Area of Effect) Foe Hold (Mag 2), -10% DMG Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Hold Duration Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Targeted AoE Damage Holds Insect Cloak A blanket of flying insects covers you and all nearby allies, making them more difficult to see. Additionally, you and your teammates are granted a minor bonus to your defense to all attacks. Insect Cloak cannot be used with any other self affecting Concealment type power. Recharge Slow (15s) Endurance 0.36/s Minimum Level 8 Effects Toggle: Point Blank Area of Effect Team Stealth (60ft.), +2.25% Defense (All) Enhancements Enhance Defense Buffs Reduce Endurance Cost Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Defense Insect Colony You command the surrounding insects to form into 3 autonomous colonies. Each colony will swarm a single foe, inhibiting their actions with toxin-laced bites and stings. They can be healed and buffed like any teammate. Damage Minor (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Very Long (240s) Minimum Level 32 Effects Summon Colonies: Melee Colony Powers Fly (Auto: Flight) Sting (Melee, DoT (Lethal/Toxic), -Speed, -Recharge) Resistance (Auto, Res(S25 L25 T25), Res(Immobilize)) Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Flight Speed Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Pet Damage Recharge Intensive Pets Plague Sends a swathe of bugs to overwhelm a target, dealing moderate Lethal and Toxic damage as they assault them. The pain from the bites may cause the target to fall to the ground. Additionally, the toxins from the bugs reduce the damage of the affected foe. Damage Moderate Damage over Time (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Moderate (8s) Minimum Level 1 Effects Ranged Foe Knockdown (Mag 0.67), -10% DMG (12s) Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Knockback Distance Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Knockback Ranged Damage Swarm Cloud Surrounds all foes near the target with flying insects, dramatically obscuring their vision. Affected targets will have their range and ability to see greatly reduced, but they will still be alerted to your presence if they are attacked. Recharge Slow (15s) Duration 60s Minimum Level 6 Effects Ranged (Targeted Area of Effect) Foe -90% Perception, -45% Range Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Reduce Endurance Cost Increase Attack Rate Set Categories None Webbing Orders nearby insects to cover a group of targets in silk, slime, and other secretions before attacking your now immobilized foes. Multiple applications of Webbing are required to immobilize most enemies. Damage Minor Damage over Time (Lethal/Toxic) Recharge Fast (5s) Duration 97.79s Minimum Level 2 Effects Ranged (Targeted Area of Effect) Foe Immobilize (Mag 1), -10% DMG (12s) Enhancements Enhance Accuracy Enhance Damage Reduce Endurance Cost Enhance Immobilization Duration Enhance Range Increase Attack Rate Set Categories Targeted AoE Damage Immobilize

Welcome back! That's alright, my responses take a while too sometimes, hahah. Yup - that's the reasoning I put in the original post; while the main utility of Mass Hypnosis and Mesmerize is to put enemies to sleep and take them out of the fight, that makes little sense when in a fast moving group, so providing them with another use made sense in my mind. As I described it, adding Levitate or Terrify 'hardens' their controls at the cost of some duration. Being able to cause enemies to lay on the floor so that they need to get back up was also part of this proposal for that reason; even if a character doesn't take Levitate or Terrorize, I figure that in super fast moving teams those few seconds of enemy inaction are plenty enough to be helpful. I thought the somewhat longer recharge time on Mass Hypnosis made sense as a result; hitting an enemy with it and following up with Levitate/Terrify is less desirable solo than it is on teams. Basically this mechanic (along with causing enemies to sleep prone) were meant to address two things at once: to improve the utility of Mind Control's sleeps, along with providing Mind Control with an extra way of triggering Containment. Of course, Dizzied! alone isn't the only way my suggestion attempted to add a means of Containment - hence why I thought it made sense that the Stun would be fairly short in duration: the addition of the Immobilize status effect on Telekinesis came from considering that. I figured that it'd be a good fit, since the Mind Controller's suspending an enemy in the air. Not all enemies are vulnerable to Holds, but most of them are susceptible to Immobilisation. Add in making it more controllable in effect, and you've got yourself a fairly constant way of triggering the Containment effect.

Being able to move enemies around the battlefield is definitely nice...but generally it's better when it's controllable for sure. A Singularity-like pet that was summoned with Telekinesis would be super cool, drawing in enemies and held them instead of pushing them away - add in Mastermind controls (barring attacking and so on), and you've got yourself a Telekinesis that moves things around at a constant rate. 😎

Ooooh, ooooh! It's time for another post pimping in that case! 🤣 My Mind Control proposal thread talked pretty in depth about Telekinesis - it's where the whole turning Levitate into a Mass Levitate when targeting Telekinesis'd targets came from in the first place, but that was only part of the proposal. I think being able to accurately control where Telekinesis can go would do a lot for the power; not just turning the Repel effect off and on, but making it so you can move the effect wherever you like. Think something like D&D's Watery Sphere, allowing for battlefield control similar to Wormhole, but on a more continual basis. I compared it to a Mastermind's pet controls, allowing you to park a group of enemies in a single place, let them follow you, or even vacuum up a disparate crowd into a more manageable huddle. Being able to immobilise enemies with Telekinesis would be very nice as well - having another avenue to affect AVs/EBs outside of Sleeps would increase Mind Control's versatility further. Perhaps the power could even come with a strong enough effect to move around such enemies when directly targeted on them, providing some form of positional control if not outright holding them down. And of course, having a higher target cap than it does currently would be nice for sure - 5 is not enough! I believe Redlynne mentioned that it detoggles after the anchor is defeated. It's definitely much better to target it against more durable/higher ranking enemies at the moment.

I don't believe anybody here disagrees that implementing new things takes more time and effort than rehashing or reusing old things, nor do people deny that these are factors to consider before implementing them. Nobody is "hand waving" these factors away as non-issues. I don't even disagree that all else equal, things that take more work will be less likely to be done than things that take less work - most people prefer driving cars over say, riding a bike for instance. That doesn't make suggestions that take more work to execute "wishful thinking". As such, I don't understand your assertion that just because the Dizzied! mechanic implements something new that it is not a reasonable expectation. The devs have proven themselves capable of developing new tech and modifying the game after all. Recent examples such as asymmetrical costumes along with the new chaining technology implemented in Electrical Affinity come to mind. Were they to put in an official statement of "no, we want to do something else", or "no, this is impossible", or "no, this is too much work" then of course it would be silly to suggest something that opposes those statements. But the devs haven't done this. All we can really do is propose suggestions that we personally think are appealing, and ideally appealing to others. If you're not a fan of the proposed Dizzied! mechanic because it'd take more work than other changes to implement, or you think that other mechanics would serve Mind Control better, that's perfectly fine. But I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss this proposal (and by extension, my other proposals to Mind Control of a similar nature) as "wishful thinking" just because you personally don't think it can be done, or for implementing more new things than other suggestions.

The symmetry of any changes to the Sleep status effects is definitely something to keep in mind. There are some secondary effects that I'd be more fine with being inflicted on my characters than others for example.

To be fair the same could be said of all roles save for damage at that point, really. That's less of a knock against crowd control and more against the game system itself.

Correct - AVs have no special resistance to Sleeps and Immobilises.

I think I might have mentioned this in my discussion forum post about improving the Sleep status effect's utility. A status icon indicator that displays status effects would certainly be quite nice, especially to make sure that a sleeping target isn't attacked by accident.

Actually, I think Captain Powerhouse mentioned something like your proposal a while back!

What did you think of the Dizzied! mechanic from my original post? That is, causing enemies woken up by Levitate/Terrify when they're put to sleep by Mass Hypnosis/Mesmerize to wake up disoriented (mag 3 stun), with the duration of the stun based on a fraction of the remaining time of the sleep effect? Basically, the Dizzied! mechanic was thought up with two things in mind: providing Mind Controllers with more opportunities for Containment, and dynamically strengthening the effects of their Sleep powers in groups that seldom require them - fast, explosive teams with lots of damage that easily wake enemies up without meaning to. It also lends itself nicely to some fun combinations, taking into consideration my other proposals. For example: Telekinesis > Mass Hypnosis > Levitate Group a bunch of enemies together, before putting them to sleep Levitate lifts all enemies affected by Telekinesis into the air, dealing Containment damage Enemies are left stunned by the Dizzied! mechanic for a fraction of the Sleep duration Mass Hypnosis > Terrify Put a group of enemies to sleep, then jolt them awake with overwhelming Fear, dealing Containment damage The Dizzied! mechanic kicks in, leaving them awake but disoriented Mesmerize > Levitate Basic one-two designed to disorient a single opponent

Both you and Oedipus want Mass Confusion to have a shorter cooldown time - I don't think there's a conflict here?

Oh for sure - some number passes as mentioned in the OP could do a good amount. Levitate could certainly do with an increase in damage to match Gravity Control's reworked Lift, as could Terrify's damage with the amount of endurance it costs at the very least. I'm definitely hoping that the devs notice the proposed idea of making Levitate activate on all targets affected by Telekinesis when used against the target of Telekinesis (i.e. a pseudo Mass Levitate); it'd certainly provide Mind Control with more ways of dealing damage, among the other suggestions I brought up.

I understand that you're averse to the suggestion due to seeing it as impossible, but I'd prefer a dev to chime in before dismissing the notion as wishful thinking. Personally while your suggestion of an on/off switch for Telekinesis' repel effect is a nice compromise, and certainly an improvement to its current situation, I think the power has the potential to so much more than that, which is why I made Telekinesis the way it was in my original proposal. Doesn't it sound thematic and powerful to be able to move enemies around a room with telekinetic powers, directing the group to go to one place, then the next, or even to follow along behind you? It'd be a power unique to Mind Control alone, and an awesome way of reshaping the battlefield that only Gravity Control can compete with. I acknowledge your enthusiasm's tempered with your perceptions of what is possible...but as said before: unless a dev says "that's impossible" or "we're not interested in doing that", I think it's worth a shot, especially if it'd be amazing to see and do. I don't touch the game code - I think I've made that quite clear. The standard coding rant certainly applies here. And of course, you are quite free to dismiss this suggestion as wishful thinking, though I will be disappointed if you see it that way. But I think that while feasibility as a factor should be considered, examining what our suggestions bring to the table takes precedence. Certainly, some suggestions that people propose may be harder to implement than others. But that doesn't mean that they don't have merit, or should be dismissed solely for that reason. At the end of the day, it's up to the devs to decide what they want to implement - all we can do is make suggestions based on what we think might be cool, powerful, fun, or yes, even feasible. Perhaps they might end up going for the options that you're proposing, or mine, or something different entirely. But if we can inspire the Homecoming team into creating something cool, thematic, and powerful? Well, I think that's a job well done. And personally speaking I think being able to freely move a group of enemies around the battlefield is much more flexible and plain old fun than just making them stop and start moving them away from you.

I actually proposed something similar in the original post!

Alright, I've got a bit of time now - I'll give a crack at responding at your proposal, Red! Personally I think that any reworks that Telekinesis ends up getting should have some means of moving enemies around. It needn't be Repel (that is to say, the status effect which pushes enemies away from the user), but having an effect that can continuously reposition enemies seems integral to the power's identity. I also think that being able to push enemies around at will is very fun to do - especially so if it were more controllable. And of course, the fact that it's already there is reason enough, personally. While being able to turn the effects of Repel on and off is a nice start, I think that we can do better than that - hence my proposal of making it a controllable effect akin to a Mastermind's pet controls. Being able to move enemies arbitrarily across the battlefield would be something fun and unique to Mind Control; it fits in nicely with the idea and feel of Telekinesis, in my view. They'd be able to stay suspended in mid-air as per your suggestion, but also do plenty of other things, such as being able to follow you around, vacuum up a series of scattered enemies with little fuss, or be shoved into the corner like how Telekinesis functions now. Plus, Telekinesis-mook walkies with the Follow command! What's not to love? 😈 Hence my somewhat lukewarm response to this proposal - Wormhole teleporting enemies makes sense for Gravity Control, and it's a unique and fun power for it. I think Telekinesis ought to do its own thing in its own style; move enemies by levitating around instead of flash-speeding them. Certainly, pausing/resuming the Repel effect of Telekinesis works okay in that regard. But omnidirectional Mastermind-lite control of the effect would be even better, IMO. While it's good to discuss the known working tech to implement different effects, I think it's worth it to pursue alternatives that'll make the powers feel even more fun and thematic to play as well as being more potent. Unless the devs outright say "no, we're not interested in doing this" or "no, that's impossible", I think it's worth a shot. I've been thinking a little bit about how endurance reductions might work for Telekinesis. Why not have it scale by the amount of enemies it traps, up to the original amount of 3.12 for 16 enemies? I'm not certain of the baseline (i.e. 1 enemy) amount, but I imagine it'd be somewhere a bit more manageable, while not trivially cheap to keep up all the time. I'm putting down a tentative 0.83 (same as Choking Cloud/Entangling Aura), plus 0.143125 for each enemy perhaps? Combined with my suggestion for making Levitate affect all enemies when used on the original target of Telekinesis (thus resulting in more enemies being defeated at once), it'd leave its endurance usage lower in many cases.

If it's anything, the proposal I made a little while back proposed an additional means of triggering Containment: if enemies slept by Mesmerize/Mass Hypnosis were damaged by Levitate or Terrify, this'd leave them disoriented for a fraction of the remaining time they would have been slept for. Flavor wise, I imagined it as disturbing a sleeping enemy to the point of jolting them awake in a confused manner. It also has the added benefit of 'hardening' Mind Control's Sleeps in teams at the cost of duration.

Would it surprise you if I said I already created a post in the Suggestions forum that proposed the use of secondary effects for Sleeps? 🤣

I put out a few suggestions regarding improvements to Mind Control in the Suggestions section of the forums a little while back. They were definitely made with Controllers as the main priority, providing a means of setting up Containment more reliably, along with improvements to Telekinesis, and other things such as powers that deserve a number pass. I also proposed a method of providing Mind Control with some additional damage - useful for Controllers, less so for Dominators. And of course a look over at Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis, and some improvements regarding them. I wouldn't call Mind Control a bad powerset; there's plenty it can still do after all. But it's definitely quite overshadowed, and a look over its powers would be nice. Its Sleep powers are a little conditional, and would be better in a game that doesn't have other means of taking enemies out of the fight such as Holds.

Well thanks! There's been different proposed implementations for Mind Control, such as @Redlynne proposals (I'll get a response up to you, but I want to make it an appropriately long response! 😅) - did you find anything that you preferred there?

Oh of course - when I refer to Repel, I don't mean it functioning as an "effect that pushes the enemy away in regards to where the character is", I just use it as a catch all phrase for "being able to arbitrarily move an enemy around using a specific system (with the Mastermind pet controls as the main example)", you know? Hence the whole controllable Telekinesis.

Good to know! I did mention that I'd still have the Repel effect in Telekinesis (or whatever equivalent effect that moves enemies around), so the main difference that I'd have would be to basically have the ability to move an AV/EB that's targeted by Telekinesis if they're immobilised. Add more of a positional control aspect to it, though not sure if that's a tad much, hahah.

As specified in the second proposal, there would still be an effect that'd help cluster in groups together - just that if an enemy is Held/Immobilised, they will be. That being said, Magnitude 3 Immobilises means that everything save for bosses and up would be immobilised (more reason for them to be the target instead). As it is, I'm pretty sure that Telekinesis pretty much can only repel things that are Held anyhow due to its numbers at the moment; with this implementation, even if an AV is the target, at least they'll be moved, hypothetically, due to the immobilise magnitude being higher - the focus of Telekinesis in my implementation being as a softer, positional control tool, with Levitate becoming AoE to add to that (damage/damage mitigation). The reason why I decided to use Mastermind-esque controls was to maintain the use cases that Telekinesis currently has of moving enemies around, while also allowing it to function as an AoE toggle-based hold. I wouldn't be surprised if some people take plenty of enjoyment in the whole herding aspect of the power - I know I do at least, so I wouldn't want it to go away.

Any thoughts on the implementations I proposed in the original post along with the one I made some time afterwards after some feedback?

I definitely can imagine myself using this feature during the lower levels - I prefer going through them myself, and IO sets take a while to come into play, usually during the 20s and 30s, so this looks rather useful, thank you!