Black Talon

I joined up in August, '04, and did get the regular issues throughout the next year; I would argue that the value of the storytelling (and, for me, that means an effective combination of graphics and text) improved on a linear per-issue basis up to the conclusion, which seemed to herald some of the upcoming online developments; basically the printed comic served as an advertisement for changes in '05 and so on. Although the fate of the individual issues has fallen into "back of the closet" status, I do have the Top Cow trade paperback collections that were done, and still pull those out every once in a while to look things over and sink in to Paragon City/Rogue Isles from the "upper tier" hero/villain perspective - and this especially during the "quiet years" of '13-'19. I was especially pleased by the fact that the writers/artists gave each one of the Freedom Phalanx a distinctive personality (often quite a problematic one) and problem-solving style, and also carried across the potentially world-altering powers that Recluse commanded, rather than maintaining the (necessary) online balance that must be preserved in the name of having a real MMPOG, rather than individual player story arcs. When I first joined up here, June 2021, I inquired about the possibility of resuming hardcopy publishing; although the likelihood is rather low, I would like to see even an online effort made, probably through here, and which might be along the lines of the much-appreciated and fondly remembered City of Zeroes that, simultaneously and so effectively, satirized and celebrated CoX and its online expression/restrictions. Would be wonderful to have an online resource for that series...

Luminara: Thank you! I've got a Fire/Fire Blaster over on Excelsior, who's been really hammering on the offensive side of things - being what he is, there's really no other option than, "Take 'em down hard and take 'em down fast" - and I had been wondering as to how he was going to be handling Malta, as an example, when he started hitting the mid-late 30s. Employing Consume offers a wonderful potential out for him in such a circumstance. Please keep these nuggets of wisdom coming our way. 🙂

Although I cannot claim to have anywhere near the in-game experience/technical proficiency of previous posters, I think I can identify at least one thing that's seriously helped with the damn Mata Sappers: Picking up Conserve Power. After hitting this (often prior to scrapping the boss Titans) I beeline straight for the Sapper and hit him with, say, Focus or Knockout Blow. Either of these keep buddy (term applied in the most colloquial sense) from getting up before finishing touches can be applied; nonetheless, the Sappers have hit frequently prior to the knockdown, and, with Conserve Power, are stuck at pulling about 25-30% end. The other methods mentioned here might certainly work; however, I personally have found Conserve Power to be an indispensable Malta-killing tool. Wishing we could have had the wonderful Atlas Park snowfall till March, Black Talon

Appearance is no indicator of inherent strength; I think we all know at least one person whose strength is way, way disproportionate to their physical stature. Some people are just gifted with that stuff. Plus, this is comic book world - Peter Parker was still a skinny buck-o'-five kid when he got the ability to toss a limo across the street, at least as Steve Ditko illustrated him. I'd give Ms Liberty a pass on this one, and if the lady wants to get together for a workout where she can demonstrate her ability to hack-squat a few thousand pounds, followed by a nice burger at the local Shake Shack, hey, let's go for it...be nice to hear some stories about how Statesman gave super-villain memorabilia as birthday gifts before Ms Liberty - all of sixteen years old - blew the birthday cake out the window and gave her mother the, "Sorry, Mom," with a regretful shrug.

All of these are what I would consider valid points, were the Rogue Isles to make the transition from directed, detailed fantasy to reality. And in all truth, I do think that the Rogue Isles Department of Tourism would have to put some serious work into enticing people - especially Paragon City inhabitants, who are the only ones who have a stable depth of income to rely on - to actually spend time and money in a place where being turned into a human sacrifice is an ongoing chance that veers from moderate to overwhelming, depending on the day. I do have a fair background in formal economics, and one of the key points to establishing a workable, ongoing economic system, besides opportunity, is stability. The only determined stability in the Rogue Isles is daily instability; in the smuggler-based American Colonies and the post-Civil War Old West there was still the limitation of human capability: no superpowers determining who's the toughest here, just the biggest gang and guns. I honestly think that Lord Recluse would have to be dedicating some serious thought toward how to establish and foster a system of consistent trade for his kingdom, reaching from top to bottom, left to right and inside out, because otherwise he's looking at the place he's worked on so hard turning into a Hobbesian nightmare where he might - might - end up the one standing on top of a mountain of dead bodies. And where's your fortune going to come from after that, friend...? Ah, right, invading Paragon City.

One point above all other serves as a Rogue Isles attraction: the architecture. The place has such wonderful late-16th/early-18th century ambiance that I'd move there just to be able to wake up, look at the place and know that things had been designed with some sort of human input and intention rather than, "Make this a good place for the machines." Bad guy habitation...well, I'm certain we can reconfigure the tourism office to make it appealing somehow...

This is a subject I can hold great sympathy and agreement with. Part of the reason - and I am obviously not alone in this - I play the game in the first place is to enjoy the pure artistic/audio/atmospheric effects for all they're worth, both intrinsic to the characters and the world they inhabit. I've done a couple of "speed runs" with one group or another, and it ends up becoming a mechanical exercise; everything that was put into the game to emphasize and exemplify the comic book world (definitely more sophisticated and detailed than the "four colour" era) is merely an object to get out of the way in order to hit the next level. While I am unaware as to what server the SG is located on - perfectly possible there's an iteration on each one - I'd love to team my guys up with you, if possible, and, rather than counting the XP till next level, we see what stories we can write with the game, and the possibilities the CoX team conjured for us and which the HC gang devotes themselves to continuing.

Was going to start this up myself if someone hadn't done it already - all thanks, Albion. As other posters have stated, adding my voice to the chorus of all best wishes and confidences for the year to come, and looking forward very much to meeting up with and teaming up along the Paragon City die-hard crew. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and happy New Year to everyone out there, your families and loved ones, and hoping that some of the generosity and heroism we display here can make an appearance in real life. Best to all, and to all a good night, Black Talon 🙂

All best wishes for a happy birthday and a wonderful year to come. CoX has, after some serious beeyatch-slapping, emerged in what, I suspect, will be a template for MMPOGs in the years/decades to come: a professionally-produced work that has been abandoned as "not profitable" by the originally high-minded and now dismissive studios, and is now maintained, repaired and improved by the do-it-yourself-minded fans. In many respects, the wonder is that Homecoming actually took so fricking long - there were fans enough with enough financial support (as is demonstrated month after month on this site; I wasn't even able to make a donation for December - by the time I was set to do so, the coffers had already filled up), technical wherewithal, and time-blocs available to sustain this game on a likely indefinite basis. Anyway, all that aside - passing on all the happiest thoughts, and hoping to meet you out on those virtual streets and exchange a high-five while giving the Freakshow boss Tanker one upside the head. Hoping you enjoy this and all upcoming birthdays.

Fair point, Techwright! Such a gesture would be, I think, in the category of the least we could do. I recall that, in the shadow of the oncoming shutdown, the CoX Devs at Cryptic Studio were festooned with gifts to indicate the population's loyalty and fervor. Maybe something similar could be arranged through this venue - do a bit of a CoHHC kickstarter at the opening of December, and then - just throwing this out - have a designated representative come to the HC team and say, "Okay, what duz youze want fer Xmas?" I don't think anything totally crazy would be either called for or appropriate; just some stuff like a box of Turtles, some commercially-available toy collections or Cthulhu plushies (nothing says "Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!" like the specter of reality-ending insanity in huggable form). In any event, it's something that the gang here could, arguably, put together. Looking forward to learning what the Our Gang's input is on this casual suggestion...

Pretty much every season - and day, really - indicate that the CoH stewardship could not have been passed on to a more caring, insightful and imaginative group of people. I signed on this morning, ready to start my Invul/SS Tanker on the long, long road to 42, and ended up in the middle of a snowfall in Atlas Park. Yes, it helped that the setting was at night, but I just got such a wonderful feeling that this was a place for heroes to be, and that the unseen virtual families will be that much safer and happier with our lot running around, cleaning house in a remarkably bloodless fashion. I cannot thank the Devs enough for having inserted this timely little bit of atmosphere into the game...sure, it's something we only really get to appreciate when flying or leaping around the city - it's kind of tough to appreciate environmental ambiance when giving Skulls what for - but this little bit of seasonal input just lets Paragon City feel that much more real and homelike. All thanks, and looking forward to Frosty, possessed by the CoTs' Envoy of Shadow, showing up with blood red eyes and shark-teeth and proclaiming, "Bumbles bounce!" before bringing the devastation of Hellfire down the city's chimneys. Ah, to build a snowman outside Atlas Park City Hall...

Honestly, this Halloween has been a great pick-up teaming opportunity. I will be on during Sunday (at least during daylight hours) and do hope very much to be able to get access to the bases you've indicated, Dacy too. Hope to see a good chunk of the gang there. P.S. Punch and pie become irrelevancies when we're dealing with multiple millions of virtual cash floating around. At that point, you can order your punch and pie from random bystanders and expect craven obedience like ordinary citizens faced with Homelander during a rage fit. Yeah, I'm watching The Boys right now and just thankful that such sociopathic abominations are not part of CoX's network. Looking forward to Sunday...

For my part - and I have virtually zero knowledge, professional or anecdotal, about the industry - I think Autodidactic Philomath has got the stranglehold on the matter. To the best of my understanding, City of Titans - and this may have well extended to the other successor projects - was a total-volunteer effort. Despite whatever's been achieved and accumulated through kickstarters, you're always going to be limited to the time, effort, and dedication of your contributing membership. It shows up enough with pure professionals who are actually paid for their work; families, outside matters, emergency and otherwise, are always going to interfere with completion dates. CoT and the others may well have had the pure financial requisites to move forward - whether they had a consistent, consistently-competent labour force is another question. Nearly two decades old or not, CoX has got my vote as the best independent superhero universe to work in. I have no doubt that Marvel and DC called it a day after they consulted the accounting department, took a look at the actuarial tables and decided, Nah...too great an investment for too little a reward. A study in diminishing returns. Let's get back to licensing movies and television series. CoX did and does survive on a diet of sheer love and dedication; no other superhero MMPOG can claim to have even been released to such acclaim, let alone enough to resurrect it back to functional life after nearly a decade.

Just remember that this is what they do on a predictable basis - their Lord and Master (Level 50 Arch-Villain), The Great Fir Bolg will appear if you're scrapping in the most sincere pumpkin patch (no, I don't know what that means, I don't think anyone does, it's one of those things that gets more obscure and arcane the more you try to figure it out), and hand out candied apples before dispatching your entire SG to the spirit world. And as you're all floating in the misty, zero-gravity purgatory, your SG mates are waving their index finger in your face and saying, "No-no-no, thank you." Just one of the things in store for you if you keep taking videos of Fir Bolg in their quiet time...

I'm still sticking with the Carnie chicks but there's definitely some room for argument on this side of the court. Plus, as has been mentioned in other resources, Ghost Widow is, for something that is basically in an undead state, "kind of hot". I always saw Arachnos as sort of a SPECTRE-type organization that just happened to have superpowered resources (if we're to regard the Daniel Craig SPECTRE as canon, that analogy bears even greater weight with CoX, I think), but those resources, as you've indicated, Triumphant, do score pretty damn highly on the coolness and, "I gotta get me onea those," scale.

Icy Mike, I will have to put myself down as linked with you and the rest of the "old school" players/members who've been signing on here, and all appreciations for the honesty in the viewpoint, for both yourself and everyone else who's submitted opinions. Seventeen years ain't a hell of a long time, in relative terms, yet it seems to have given blossom to an entirely new way of thinking and approaches to games as "fun". For myself, the whole IO thing is several steps too close to the d20 "It's all about the numbers" thing that resulted in me and my gaming group giving D&D 3.x the good old college try, then just shaking our heads and going back to AD&D 1st/2nd edition, or C&C. Similarly, for CoX, I'm perfectly content with those straightforward 42% SO enhances that can come into effect at level 47, and maintain that archetype specificity that's been mentioned. The characters who reach demigod status after racking up IO sets X, Y and Z is something I'm perfectly content to leave to others. And that, I would speculate, is part of what's contributed to the overall longevity of the game, despite its technical limitations in duplicating a number of comic book-style superhero power set types. The fact that we're able to travel not only the X axis but the Y as well, to any individual's particular taste, gives CoX a particular "open book" style that defies categorization fitting any one comic book "universe". I think this appeals to a certain rather open-minded group - age irrespective - who are perfectly prepared to establish their place in a universe where there's no one set "ideal" finishing type.

Oh, man - I literally cannot think of a villain group that doesn't have a "total suck" point that makes it a "Who the hell would want to be a part of this crew of losers?", but I was considering this one, and looking over the membership's arguments (and numbers) allows me to feel safe in a crowd. Carnival of Shadows, because there is no way I would turn down being able to look at and talk to killer (literally "killer") hot chicks on a daily basis, especially ones that seem so determined to show themselves off without restraint. Sure, Vanessa DeVore is in league with a major league psychic vampire and the Carnival kills for fun, but being able to ask the Attendants, Jugglers and Fencers out for a date on a regular basis might make those last few weeks of life worth the trade-off.

Although I could likely have been a lot clearer, I was expressing some degree of consternation regarding the whole "Incarnate" thing - why the heck this system couldn't be a little more straight-forward is a big head-shaker - but the comments regarding the Devs who put this together were meant to be in the "Too ridiculous to take as anything but stupid comments" category. Yes, I do believe that the Incarnate thing is somewhat out of whack - at least what individuals have expressed here have indicated this - but I will simply continue to run my guys through their motions and work to somehow - somehow - alter the whole CoH algorithm thing through sheer force of will and restore real justice to this beleaguered city. Doc Vahz will never break parole again... Maelwys, your to-the-point guideline was much appreciated. I am likely going to put this to some serious use. Grouchybeast, knowing that there's been some communal agreement regarding the after-50 stuff helps as well. Hoping this can be navigated somehow without CoH turning into a misery grind. Aurora_Girl, for what it's worth, I have absolutely no intent of starting any conflicts with the current game membership, board members, or the game's original (and current volunteer) Devs/GMs/Mods, and offer all apologies for implied offence. As stated, I honestly believe that the post-50 stuff could have been managed a hell of a lot differently, but I am still with this game - and will be making the monthly contributions - for the foreseeable future.

All of you, thank you very much for the opinions, guidelines and links. From the submitted viewpoints, it's pretty easy to reach the definitive conclusion that the whole Incarnate thing...? Eh, well, maybe. I will get B.T. to 51 and proceed on from there, but with regard to any new power sets...? Bud, I'll just take the extra slots for the already-in-place powers that weren't quite filled to capacity and go from there, and the already-established power pool sets offer plenty extra to choose from. I will likely start a new thread after 51, with the title: "Incarnate Power Sets: Why the People Who Set This Up Should be Boiled Alive in Their Own Urine and Left to Rot in the Sun". Otherwise, submission of opinions on the whole "What Happens After 50...?" thing are still encouraged to post on here.

I've done a search for this - all too brief, it could be argued; the search-fu wasn't all that fu-lish - and haven't found a relevant thread. So here's the point: My main alt - Black Talon, pick your jaw up off the floor, it's not as big a surprise as some might take it to be - hit 50 some days ago, the first of my alts to do so. Been fooling around since that point, working on arcs-in-progress and adjusting the levels in order to keep it at least halfway interesting. The thing is, he is now literally one notch (4,000 xp or so) from hitting 51. What happens at this level? He's managed to accumulate about three dozen Incarnate "threads" as salvage, as well as a couple of rare Incarnate salvage pieces; what the heck does he do with those? I will state that, if this involves an invention-heavy time/cash investment, my interest in the whole inventions thing is pretty much nil. Otherwise, some insight into this game-engine addition - which I'm presuming has occurred following the Homecoming initiation - so that B.T. can make the most of his advancement would be much appreciated.

Rather interesting topic and subject analysis! The variety of comments and viewpoints submitted thus far indicate, from my perspective, that there's a heck of a lot of independent "from my experience" input on this, and I believe this prevents any definitive "one true answer". While I certainly don't have any huge variety of archetypes to draw from, let alone individual power sets, I do support the contention that Claws has got a heck of a lot of what I would call linear progression, rather than relative leveling out and taking big leaps with the acquisition of a new power and its successful use (e.g., and this one is from personal experience, Eagle's Claw; Back In The Day, my MA/SR Scrapper virtually one-shotted an elite boss when getting a critical early on in the fight). I would argue that, whatever the benefits of a "smooth" development, there are always those players and mindsets that are going to be perfectly happy with, and in fact revel in, the possibly uneven results of certain powers/power set progression. I would further contend that the existence of such differing viewpoints contributes to the longevity of the game, rather than turning things into a "Harrison Bergeron" experience where, because enforced mediocrity results in a perfectly level landscape, there's no choice except to be a happy warrior in the Army of Conformity.

Not being a cause to give up an alt, but a Fire/Fire Blaster I had Back In The Day (and the OP author and other will doubtless recognize this) - when he was doing the build-up for the sniper blast, looked as though he was dealing with constipation. There was endless ribbing about this during team-ups - and yeah, okay, I started more than my fair share of it - but for a guy who was supposed to be a merciless Heaven-sent avenger, it sure did detract from whatever seriousness he was trying to set. Also wish the fire sword could have been altered to look a bit less like the Eastern-style scimitar.

Aeroprism, I think you have pretty much encapsulated the reason why this is the only MMPOG I've ever played (and likely ever will), and why so many other people feel the same way. This game isn't just about mechanics or min/max solutions or "winning" in a game-accounting sense. There is an actual story involved here, and that invites the players to get involved, as much as digitally possible, in the developments and direction of this world and build their own stories with that. As so many others have related on this site, this encourages players to start constructing real and interesting bios and stories for their alts, and this leads to a sense of real accomplishment, should that be for a single mission, a task force, or a mission arc. Real game playing takes time, as any dedicated chess player can confirm. Not that I'm comparing CoH to chess, but building a story takes time, and all thanks and congratulations to the Devs who put this game together, Back In The Day, and decided to let real creativity and story-telling engines build the game, rather than just setting up the "Ooh, they can get a load of xp over in this area," minefields. Like yourself, I would heartily embrace the idea of this game continuing on in its current format, and if there are any changes to come...bud, you better check with all of us over here before you start shuffling the chess board around.

Stated clearly and succinctly, Crysis - agreed pretty much the big one-ten. I keep vacillating between hoping that some well-heeled corporate entity (could be Crey or Facebook; both are at about the same level of moral rectitude - or lack thereof) will see what's going on with Homecoming, decide it might be a good tax write-off and take it upon themselves to provide active subsidization for CoH's reinstatement in the MMPOG world; hey, stranger stuff has happened. The problem is that any indication on the supporting party's behalf to establish ongoing changes and alterations in the game system - "because it'll be fun!" - would be met with outright condemnation by the player base and a pretty near universal desire to relocate the game's servers in a genuine safe-house. Another part is quietly whispering prayers to powers above that things stay just as they are - the Homecoming crew has got CoH in basically a state of corporate benign neglect: the game and its population don't get messed with as long as we stick to playing our (from some perspectives) obsolete superhero game and don't rock the boat. If such is the case, I'll be perfectly happy to live with what we've got here.

My thanks to all who continue to contribute to this discussion. With regard to the WoW diaspora having little to no impact on CoH Homecoming - yes, I can certainly see the truth in this, but the creation of any possible additions to the player-base - and fulfillment of monthly hosting fees - does, I think, require at least some consideration on how to provide the most welcoming hand-of-beckoning possible, whether such an agenda is followed or not. The only element I can comment on with any degree of personal experience is the difference in player-versus-player arrangements serving as a possible draw/aversion to the WoW contingent. As I understand it - at least as far as "Make Love, Not Warcraft" made clear - players in WoW can engage in PvP at any point as long as they make a mutual agreement to do so. I was, and am, of the opinion that CoH would have been far, far better served to have followed this model, rather than the PvP zones which required amendments, then amendments again, then a few more amendments in order to achieve some kind of "balance" for those participating. On the rare occasions I had an alt with a mission in these areas, I made it a point to get the living hell in and out as quickly as humanly possible to avoid individuals or groups that were lying in wait, apparently with the conviction that taking down another player with absolutely no intention of engaging in PvP was "fun". I have never engaged in a PvP zone for the purpose of player-versus-player, nor have been in the Arena at any point. Any individuals who choose to do so are more than welcome to it, but I believe that the never-ending "amendments" that were made to the CoH PvP system indicate that this is something that, if it wasn't included at game launch, it should have been left in the shoebox for good. I would thus see such a marked difference in approach - and success in execution, it could be argued - as another reason the WoW gang would look at CoH and say, "Meh...I don't think so." The nature of comic book superheroes in the first place, ranging from your Punisher types to Silver Surfer/Superman, makes it clear that effective power level differentiations were, are, and likely always will be a core world- and story-building value. Trying to shoehorn one "type" into being able to take on another with some opportunity for success simply serves, from my point of view, to creating a "Harrison Bergeron" world where everyone is equal in mediocrity. Again, from my limited perspective, this is another solid point that will serve to keep a number of the WoW crowd away, although some may always decide, "Well, I kind of like this PvE stuff better," and stick around for a bit.