jubakumbi

The way I play, the other players are for the most part just there to fill up the market so I can more easily make builds. It's fun sometimes to jump on a team, but I find little ROI in random teams in online games unless I want to test my healing/support skills or my general patience. I play purely to relax and generally playing with anyone I do not already know well in RL in MMOs is simply too much of a chore. It's a little different here right now simply because there are not very many drama llamas in game and IME lot's of good players that don't need herding. I have been checking out the other servers for a number of reasons and I find that my playtime is served just fine on servers with far less than 100 people. I lead a quiet life, with very few friends or even other humans interacting directly with me, all on purpose. I am a loner that plays a lot of MMOs, much to the chagrin of more extroverted outlooks, who think players like me ruin thier games.

I play in and build worlds that crash together things like SUpers and Fantasy and Tech, I love the idea. One mans tech is another mans magic, etc. Limiting creativity by placing these things in little boxes is not my cup of tea, would love to battle dragons, we already have wizards and demons. Big fan of Stargate and the like, I love having all the worlds/settings crashing togather, makes for great stories, IMO.

Excellent post. I think many of the HC players should see this upon Login. 🙂

I am grateful for all of this as well. I agree with everything you say here, I do. What I rail against is the hype train. The fact is we can play the game, on a couple of differing code bases and that there are people willing to continue to make that happen. The rest is all hype and promises. As @golstat2003states, I agree that getting NCSoft to relase the code in some 'community' fashion is a pipe dream. This is why I am as pragmatic on this. IMO, the only possible outcomes keep the IP and code controlled by a select few who want to be able to tell the rest of us 'how it will be'. I am well aware contractual discussions that hold specifics cannot be revealed, but even huge publicly traded companies can and do reveal they are 'in talks' for all sorts of things, so I know it is within the bounds of reality for some level of the details to be made public, because I have personaly participated in such corporate level hijinks. I am also aware that the company that owns the code and IP does not have the same western coporate outlook that I typically have to deal with day to day, or the game would have already been sold years ago. All we have is a couple of supposed sympathic ears at NCSoft who are tyring to help. I have been in that position too many times to count, I can count three active deals right now where we have a sympathic ear in the clients company, but it means nothing if the people who hold the $ control don't get onboard. I am well aware even getting a meeting with those people can take months for something they don't see as high value, but that things they do value get moved quickly. I am not impatient for any of this to occur. I am in no hurry, like many the game in the current state provides me a ton of fun, on two code bases. I will not, however, get onboard with trying to villify any of these groups, even while trying to get real data to trickle out of them. All of the server runners are doing great work IMO, all with the intent of having fun with the game. Meanwhile, we have gamers that still think there has to be a 'side' and that they have to be part of the right 'tribe' and that the 'others' do it worng.

While I love your positive and reassuring outlook, we are still running on hype with very little real data to show that anything like what you describe is actually occuring in the background. I know it's not a popular opinion here, you know I have been roasted over, but all we have is hopes and promises with little to no real data. That is just fine I guess for people that do not normally think about these things. I help sell, build, and deploy contracts, software, and IP as a career. Nothing is going to make me put on the rose colored spectacles. Until we have some actual data, this just remains a very laudable group of people that are making a lot of other people happy by running a stable version of a game once lost, claiming to be capable of becoming a corporation that can pick up the IP and run with it, filled with hype, intrigue, hearsay, and hope and few published facts to back it up... As stated, I am simply not one who 'believes', show me the data, show me the contracts, show me the terms, show me any real evidence NCSoft and HC have any sort of real deal cooking... Better yet, show me where HC is actively trying to get NCSoft to release the code in such a fashion that anyone can use it, not just a select few, because that's the best thing for the game, IMO.

Yup. Personally not a fan of clipping myself, I avoind using them. But it's this 'devs make the decision' thing... It's just volunteers that get inspired to do things. Player desire has an impact on those inspirations. There are just volunteers adding things that inspire them. Pushing this idea that there are 'devs' to make choices for the rest of us is, IMO, old school corp thinking coupled with the desire to have one true authority...

And that is the discussion to have, not that the other servers are doing it wrong or that players are impatient and greedy.

That's a fine stance. That outlook becomes an attack vector when it gets used to try and imply that because others choose to do these things, they are being done wrong. HC, has they stated, chose to do things in a certain order, which is just fine. However, for any gamers to turn around and say that stance is simply 'better' is nothing more than an objective opinion. For a lot of people at this stage of the games life, adding a ton of costume parts, with or without clipping, that the players have wanted for years, that have been added to the player options successfully, would be a reason for them to keep playing. Implying that these players 'want it now' as if they are somehow greedy and impatient is silly, some of them have been waiting 15 years and they know it can be done. If HC, as other posters have told me, wants to be successful, they have to cater to the players. So far, they have been doing what they choose and telling the rest of us "this is how it has to be, it's the only way", just like a corp. I don't even think the team has a bad plan, but to think the HC plan is automatically 'better' is some serious rose-colored spectacles. From my PoV, I see some good programming, the stability and the graphics changes are awesome, but not very good game/content building and simply because of that, gamers have decided to try and push the agenda that other people, just as dedicated to the game in thier own ways, who have added content, are now 'wrong' because it's not the HC way. It sounds just like a bunch of archaic tribalism to me.

Uh...other servers have been doing a ton of testing and implemetation with costume parts. It's a whole lot more confirmed to work than a couple posters in this thread seeing it work. HC can do what they want, but his rings like pure FUD to me in an effort to get people to obey. Historically, the HC team has tried to act like Paragon Studios, while many other very good developers have been able to really make some changes to the game and get a handle on it's inner workings. A whole lot of us don't really need or want HC to be acting like 'they know better' because we don't need parents. We still get the FUD about the code being 'so hard', etc., when plenty of people have been swimming in it now for a while. HC has decided to take a pragmatic, corporate like stance in the way they operate. People who love to obey a position of authority and have a single source of truth are eating that up like cupcakes, bcause 'talks'. *eyeroll* There are plenty of us that don't want or need an authority figure in this regard, one that makes players think they can tell us they 'know better' when we can see with our own eyes it seems. HC has chosen what they think is the right way to operate and that's fine. That does not mean they know anything better.

You are all talking to me, I can't hear what you've said, but after nine days, the Stalker had turned to see, so I let the Tank run free.

I WANT TO PICK TWO SETS, A PRIMARY AND A SECONDARY, THEN PICK AN AT MODIFIER. I WANT COMPLETE PROLIFERATION, ALL POWERSETS AVAILABLE TO CHOOSE, ADDED TO ANY AT MODIFIER SPECIALS. INVULNERABILITY/WILL POWER STALKER, YOU GOT IT! FIRE BLAST/ILLUSION DEFENDER, YOU GOT IT! BALANCE LEFT THE BUILDING A LONG, LONG TIME AGO, LETS BLOW THE DOORS OFF OF THE THING AND REALLY GIVE PEOPLE CREATIVE FREEDOM. YES, IT MAKES SOME CHARACTERS UNVIABLE TO SOLO. SO WHAT? YES, SOMEONE WILL COME UP WITH 'THE FOTM BEAST', JUST LIKE NOW. SO WHAT? SOME THINGS WILL WORK, OTHERS WILL NOT, THIS IS NO REASON TO NOT TRY AND REALLY INJECT TRUE CREATIVE FREEDOM. WITHOUT THE FINANCIALS INFLUENCING WHAT IS ALLOWED IN AN EFFORT TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS, WE CAN DO ANYTHING WE CHOOSE, UNHINDERED BY THE PREVIOUS CONSERVATIVE, MONEY-BASED SYSTEM.

As I stated, IMO, facts have little meaning at this point in the server vs. server battle. It's all about who can play/produce CoH on the 'most moral and traditional' way for one group, while another group is ready to rip off the training wheels and 'get dirty'. From my PoV, as I have stated as well, it looks like elementary school children fighting over who gets the ball, when if they would stop looking for ways to cut each other down, they might use that energy together to make a better game. Instead, everyone get hung up on some vague idea of the 'right' thing to do and fights over those details. I watch the same thing occur in multi-billion dollar companies over a couple camps or personalities that just decide they 'know better'. Add in the gamer mentality of having to 'win' and we get the fireworks we see now. Even the sunset of the Live game appears to be based around nothing more than a couple individuals in-fighting at NCSoft, according to some data. Humans suck at learning from history.

You are the 'one persons reasonable' part, @Abraxus. 🙂 Those that would look at your words and turn them into an attack, especially with your post history, would be wrong. You make it plain it's not your bag, it's not mine either, but I can see in how you worded what you said it would set off some people. I live with a personality that points out facts. A whole lot of people take blunt facts as an attack. As an example, I was asked never to return to Sunday School as a child. My mother thought I must have started a fight or something. Nope. The teachers, yes multiple, had a meeting with her to tell her I asked too many questions and I would not just 'believe' what they said. Never believed anything without evidence. But, IME, most people are happy to make stuff up to fill in the blanks, without waiting for any evidence, and magically the blanks get filled with what makes them happy to hate. Right now, we have people that 'believe' a whole bunch of stuff about what's happening with the game and form my PoV, they are not bothered by facts most of the time, because facts are sparse and it's easier to make stuff up...

Just to be clear, these same topics were all over the original LIve forums. The various groups fighting now existed then. It's all part of the community.

One persons reasonable is another persons paraniod delusion. The whole problem is that too many players involved are jumping to conclusions because they have no facts, lots of time, and vivid imaginations. No matter what is said, how it is presented, with or without factual information, it is weaponized and used in an attempt to denigrate the 'others'. Nothing new, just gamers hating on other gamers because of uncontrollable brain chemistry that forces them to 'win'. Same old story. Our society now produces game services that provide a constant influx of 'information' to those that need a constant drip and has trained them to think when there is no drip, drip, drip, they need to panic. The resurgence of this game in this state makes for fascinating interactions and some really wild theories and outlooks, IMO. Loving it.

Well, the code walking out of the door when and how it did 'is what it is'. What some paranoid-powered gamers did with thier 'secret server' has about as much to do with me as the next asteroid landing on Mars. So they were asshats to a lot of people...so?...so were the Paragon developers in the eyes of many, just like anyone with full control over something people like, the people in charge are always villinized. All that matters, IMO, is what happens now... Right now, we have people that still think there should only be one true and rightful king of CoH, that think denigrating anyone not on the same team is a fine idea. There are people that actually think they can tell NCSoft to go to hell and at the same time have NCSoft hand over the rights of the game to the 'community'. People that think playing on these servers is just fine, but playing as Superman is somehow a worse crime. Outcries of heresy from people that think no fan can add anything of value, that have no idea who added what when, but just know they hate everything not added by the 'official' sources. And groups of supposed players that 'just want the game to live on', all telling each other they are doing it all wrong, in some cases with active sabotage, and no one presenting anything other than hype and hearsay on the things that matter, like how much $ and the terms NCSoft wants. It's pretty hilarious at this point. Yeah, I just love the CoH Community! So full of premium logic and sharp business skills! Go Us! Man, I think we have a movie here someplace, even if it goes straight to pay-per-view... "The rise and Fall and Re-Rise and Re-Fall of CoX" - sounds like porn though.

OK - I guess I am totally and completely wrong, in every way imaginable. Thanks for the update, I had no idea! Your outlook is the only correct one, how foolish of me to presume otherwise, making a living and all in the channel myself. The moment NCSoft chooses to give the right to only a select few servers and tries to shut the rest down will be a real interesting few hours on the Internet. None of that is a reason to villify the other servers or the work they do. I have moved more code from 32 to 64 bit than I can possibly recall, duh, some coding takes time. You speak in abolutes in a world of grey.

So the answer to my Why? question is that, in your opinion, they are all 'doing it wrong' and HC is 'doing it better', because they are addressing issues in the order in which you think those issues are more important. You choose to present this PoV, however, in what is, in fact, a very passive-aggressive attacking voice. The words you choose to use and the voice in which you use them, shows a clear disdain toward the other servers. You talk as if all of these things are somehow mutaully exclusive as well. If the HC team continues to interact with other server runners, then the 64 bit client will be available to everyone, which helps the game, not just HC. If some other server runners stumble and fall, everyone learns, but you choose to point out only the bad incidents and none of the many good ones. You waggle more C&D FUD as some kind of danger stick - in your example, a simple removal of said texture offending code does the trick...and if NCSoft sends on C&D, then they would have to kill them all, which IMO is what many in the HC community want, thinking HC is legit doe to these 'talks'. So many of the people that play this game simply do not understand a game does not have to be run like a bank, nor does CoH have to have one true place to be played (and thusly controlled).

I also prefer apples, but I do not try to villify those that do not. This is the difference, IME.

As much as I like @Abraxus, the context in which it was posted was a little more like 'watching the enemy' than 'reviewing the progress'. These are all just smoke screens anyway, the attacking of the messengers, IMO. Humans just love to try and end an argument by attacking the messenger over the message though...that has not changed in a few thousand years that I can see... This whole tribal mentality based war of one group being the 'right and true' CoH is really funny and sad to watch though. As was said in another thread, the game is big enough for everyone, why snipe at other players/server runners that are just trying to have some fun? Why? What purpose does it serve other than personal dopamine from being mean to attack the other players?

The more effective the enemy is at defeating me, the more fun I have. IMO, the only challenge in the game is from things like Sappers and Carnies. Generally the enemies have no real AI, so unless the break out the powers I have to worry about, there is little challenge IME. I always find fighting Council and the like fun, just because I never feel bad about arresting Nazis and the like, even though they are basically pushovers. IME, the groups most people try to avoid are the ones I find the most fun.

You basically attack the other servers in a paasive agressive fashion. Why?

This is the kind of impartial, facts based information, presented in an neutral voice, that will increase the positive perceptions, IMO.

This is the real crux, isn't it? I totally agree a server runner group should maintain full control of what they build and run, they own it. The way this is done IMO is no different in it's impact than the way games stores can have over games occuring within the store. Either the venue owner allows people freedoms or not. The moment the actions of the venue owners reflect thier own bias against 'certain types of players or outlooks' in the way rules get implemented/enforced is often the moment I leave the store and never return. This is bascially what happend when NCSoft pulled the plug years ago, a whole bunch of us left that store, never to return. I am a person that forgives as well. If NCSoft plays ball in a reasonable way, then I will be willing to shop at that store again, even though I know some players will not. The problem I see is that the group that now holds the most leverage through sheer player numbers seems no more experienced or capable than the previous game store owners. Since there is a corporation involved, the chances of the product being 'given to the masses' remains slim, IMO. Therefore, the only recourse I see, as a person that cares about the game, is to deeply interrogate the new store owners and expect them to respond as business owners and impartial leaders, not 'angry gamers'. So, when any server runner continues the 'legacy of the secret server' that many dispute - that the server runners will simply emlininate any words or players that they do not condone - those servers runners become suspect... Perception is reality. It does not matter if the new store owners don't like the fact we are going to have uncomfortable questions.

This rings very, very hollow. Sounds like an angry gamer, not PR. If something is not accurate, then make it accurate, don't just toss a passive-agressive pile of BS at it. We have never been given anything of real value to in anyway think the 'talks' with HC and NCSoft are anything more than hype. From my PoV, the HC team might, possibly, actually be moving forward with NCSoft...and from my PoV if they are, the actions taken make me think they want to 'own' CoH. And, even if I give the HC Team the benefit of the doubt, the HC community does not get that luxury. I have seen the HC community, at every website and many topics, lay into anything non HC as if it's the Devil incarnate in a suit made of puppy and kitten fur. The fear within the HC community that there might be fewer teams due to low population, the changing of powersets, whatever it has been, the HC community has been terribly aggressive toward anything non HC - the same vitriol that gets thrown at NCSoft. The same happens to the lineage of the HC code, I know, it's almost as childish, but if you look hard at the history, it's much more justified. At this point, with the data at hand, HC is a hype machine trying to become Paragon Studios reborn and take over rulership (as opposed to leadership). I don't think the HC team even wants to really innovate at the leve many players would love, they are more tuned onto the 'traditional' players - you know the ones that don't want anything in the world to ever change. The entire attitude from the HC team has been one of a parent trying to scold a wayward child IME, while the HC community just falls over itself to comply so thier characters won't get wiped and yells at other servers like they are the problem. This whole thing is just hillarious, because it is nothing new, at all, if you have watched rogue server drama from other games. None of this is really new, it's just angry gamers going around in the same old love-hate circles... For me, the pain is that I really love this game and IMO, the people trying to control it might just kill it, because they cannot help themsleves.