jubakumbi

So now you want statistical analysis as well? Based on my experience and reading forum posts, 'some number greater than zero' agreed with developer outlook that other players were doing it 'wrong'. These outlooks exist. What does it matter how many players there are that try to force the rest of the population to play a certain way? Lots? Few? Some? I don't care how many there are, they are still trying to control everyone else and I don't like it...

Um, ok? I presented my correlation of the data at hand, from my PoV. That data leads me to conclusions and those conclusions lead me to think there are people that think the AE is bad for the game and that they think they need to tell the rest of us how to play. I don't like that, so I speak out against it. Are you saying what I am speaking out against is not and has not occured? The 'arguments' I have presented from the 'opposition' are right in this forum. How have I made something up here? Was I somehow out of bounds by simply saying what other people think and feel, when I have seen the posts? I saw posts like the one you just tried to parody(?), I see them now, plenty of people love the powerleveling of the AE.

Sweeping claims? I am simply referring to posters who post right now, today, on these forums, wanting the AE to change because 'feelings'. Many posters on this forum have referred to these same events. The posts and data I have at hand still points to a morality based argument that the AE is somehow 'wrong' because of all kinds of things from 'creating bad players' to allowing people to play the game in ways 'unintended by the developers'. Posts right in this thread, even. We had discussions on this very thing just as the HC forums got up and running, because we were laughing about the trifecta of AE, ED, and something else that escapes me being argued already, Free-To-Play maybe?... IIRC, one of the lead developers had to walk back some seriously bad PR over the AE during Live, trying to villify players for using it. So many things were attacked by the original developers and thier rose-tinted glasses, trying to force players into a specific leveling track, slowing the process to increase revenue. All these things happened. IMO, it leads me to think that players who either already felt this way or like to be on the developers side, took these attacks and amplified them into what we have now, groups of players that actually think they play the game the 'right' way and that it is thier duty to bring the rest of us in line.

This just goes back to players thinking other players are not playing 'right' or 'good enough', basic elist BS, IMO. The whining of a few forum posters over PUGs that had a bad player was just as funny to read about then as it is now, in every MMO forum on the planet. There never was a detrimental effect IMO, just players with little empathy and patience.

Did not realize I had to back up my arguments here with court-of-law evidence. These are my opinions, just like the other posters. I base my posted thoughts on my memory and experience and interpretation of the data just like everyone else. The way I explained it is, to me, what happened based on the things I see now and remember from Live. The AE usage was more than the developers expected, they could not handle the load, and posts from the top developers railed against the 'story telling machine' being used for PLing and taking out the resources allocated for other things. I remember the mobs of players convinced AE had ruined the game, simply because other players could hit 50 faster, just like now. Do you have something specific that negates this outlook?

I don't fear this. IMO, the voices that want these changes do not have the skills to get them implemented. They won't be able to talk the servers runners into making the changes, they simply don't have the numbers or leverage. At the same time, the players that want such a specific version of the game don't seem interested in creating a new server farm, the one that I know of that has tried to be 'just like Live' is just not really popular. HC in the current form with the current outlook shared tells me that we are OK. Just look at the way they handle AE and multi-boxing - it's all rules around making sure the resources they allocate can handle the general player load, not stupid punative measures.

The original game implemented the AE and it used far more resources than intended. The developers then set out to make using AE 'wrong' - not just for stories but for fast leveling - not the 'right' thing to do, through game changes and outright propaganda. Many players decided they like the developer outlook and absorbed it. Now, so many years later and on rogue servers no less, some players simply cannot let go of what they were talked into thinking 10 years back and revived the Holy War - to powerlevel to these people is Evil, to gain rewards faster or 'easier' is Evil, and these things must be destroyed. It is really fun to watch.

The reward balance is the entire argument form the Moral Players - make the rewards be better for 'my' playstyle, it's 'not 'fair' those other players get more stuff. I do not, at all, even a little bit think 'everybody is well-meaning in thier proposals', I have lived life far too long to be that naive, these are player my age with education and skills, many know exactly what they are proposing and the other players it will drive away, it is the point to them. And so we are disussing... Some posters don't like my style of calling out things, just as I do not like the style of others. Ah, Life. I read the threads. My way of playing the game cannot be attacked, because I do not play for the digital dopamine based on rewrds that these arguments over minutae are based. I play to take the character ideas in my mind and see if I can make them happen in a virtual world. Some players of this game and the original developers of this game tried countless times to force players into thier mold. As I have stated, I find such actions to be terrible manifestations of our human ego and fear that we have to tear down anothers playstyle to prop up another; changing the rules to force others into a specific playstles is BS, IMO. As far as laughing, yes, I find many of these ideas to be laughable, since many of the same voices tout the 'great community' while doing what they can to drive out playstyles they do not like. After watching this go round and round for so many years in so many games, it is pretty funny at this point. With the Internet at thier fingertips, where you can be anything, some players choose to be jerks to other players. Laugh or Cry, as they say...

So? Even between the post I am making and the one I am quoting, someone called for a fundamental change to the game to 'make' people play differently. These players that want to alter the game so other players have to play their way are, IMO, the worst the gaming community has to offer. It's nothing more than an uncrontrollable urge to control, IMO. If more people wanted to play a certain way, they would. The very idea of changing the game in an effort to 'make' players play it a certain way is, IMO, just a bunch people trying to manipulate others. Play the parts you like, ignore the ones you don't like, as with RL.

And endless efforts of players telling other players they are doing it wrong isn't?

Wow. All these years and poeple just cannot give up on making other players 'play the game the right way' when the only right way is to have fun. Ah, the great CoH 'community'. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The only people I tell to not play are those that seem to be at-risk mentally/emotionally. Where have I suggested not playing the game? I don't play portions of the game because they do not interest me for whatever reason, how is suggesting such to others bad? Disliking and avoiding a certain aspect is a far cry from 'get-the-f-out'. Discuss anything you don't like all you want, that is the point of the forum, but don't think for a moment all the opinions you see will jive with yours, and twisting the words of others won't help the conversation. This is not a Retail Live game, it is a rogue deployment of code that has less than perfect lifecycle. Basically, if you really think something is wrong, learn how to fix it in the code, or if you think the deployment is wrong, deploy your own server(s). The rest is just people bitching at volunteers for being nice enough to provide a place to play, IMO.

Having a conversation is fine. The entire thread is predicated on the AE being 'too good'. That is, IMO, a subjective opinion based off of a bad assumption, on many levels. Here and elsewhere ideas are presented to 'fix' this, as you point out, but I don't look at each thread as some sacrosanct court case that cannot bleed to another, my thoughts go where they go. IMO, there is no problem there is nothing to fix, and I find it hilarious to watch these things go in circles. As for the comment I made that you felt you had to force me out of the community over, that's how I see it. When we allow these 'fixes' to start, where does it end? How is that not part of the conversation, even if you don't like my tone and choose to tell me to f'off? I do not have to conform to anyones boundries of thought.

My wife has a saying. "If you don't want me to laugh at youre beliefs, don't have such funny ones." I find humor in watching gamers tear down the minutae of games because of thier seeminingly uncrontrolable urge to remake every single game they play. This community also has a moral high-horse group determined to make everyone play the 'way the developers intnded' that villifies absolutely anything not within that moral framework ... I choose to clap back at these effort to take away something many people enjoy, simply because a few gamers think something is 'wrong' and are looking to fix a problem that does not exist outside of thier own minds. I really like laughing over that one.

OOOOhhhh buuurrrnnn! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks, I'll do what I like. 😉

So, are we just going to nerf/ban everything in the game, one by one, as those things become the 'most profitable', until there is no game? This community cracks me up. If you don't like a part of the game, don't play it. This whole thing IMO is still based around some Protetstant Work Ethic idea that nothing has 'value' without 'work'. Too funny.

My advice is seek help outside the game on acquiring greater self discipline. That's the best I have to give.

I personally I/O the 'chracters' I love - nothing to do with ATs or powers, the particular characters I really feel good about, be it the punny name or whatever about them that brings me joy, those get the I/Os, because spending the time and energy on them feels good. The rest get the scraps and they can deal with it.

IMO, one either wants to play the game, whatever parts of it, or not. Personally, I am not looking to any specific development, addition, reduction, change, or general buff to make me want to play the game. I either want to play it, or I don't. It' my choice, based on my mood and has nothing to do with anything specific in the game, I am in the mood or not. Being given a bonus to play specific content is simply a carrot I ignore, I do it in all games, I hardly ever play the current 'event' in any game unless it happens to be what I feel like doing. The extroverts that love teams want more forced teaming. The 'content-ists' think we are all cheating by not reading every word in the game. The fornulae players think we should 'wait here' for the tank. The farmers want to be left alone. The general player just wants to play the game. Why do we have to pour over the mintuae looking for things to change, when we can just play the game. And if you are not in the mood to play the game, then don't, and come back whne you do, why the need to force changes on everyone, just because a few players are 'done' with a certain aspect of the game at them moment? I have never understood why people cannot just let this game be what it is w/o having to think everything needs to be changed. This has been a revolving issue since Day 0 of Retail Live. Please, gamers, just play the game the way you want tp play it and stop trying to change it? Is it really so hard?

But a team wipe is simply a reason to laugh, not 'negatively impacting' gameplay...IMO. Money or no money, it is a game to have Fun and Play, not be subjected to the attitudes many players love to through around about 'playing properly'. I go by the old saying about the fact you can know someone for years, but you really learn about peoples true personalities by playing games with them... IMO, if someone gets upset by another player 'clicking the wrong things' or a 'bad build', then the player that allows themselves to get upset over it has the problem. I try to remember when playing that everyone is just a person trying to have some fun, not someone looking how to be told how to play or that they are doing it wrong. Someone who, IMO, is so full of anger, angst, hate, whatever, to the degree they are 'impacted' because some other player in a video game was not perfect enough for them is the one with the problem and perhaps should consider changing hobbies or just taking a break. But what do I know, I am just a cranky old geek that thinks we should clap back at meanies, not let them run all over us...

Funny, I just laugh and get back up to fight the bad guys, we can wipe over and over, it's not like it matters, and the chaos is awesome. I find the entire oulook of someone that has 'issues' with another player just because they don't play the game to thier exacting standards to be the very definition of a 'party-pooper', personally. So many people seem to lose sight of the fact this is a game for relaxation, not some second job that has to get done on time, IMO. With the rewards as easy as they are to obtain, including XP and drops, so what if the teams wipes? PUGs make the game interesting, rather than a boring, prescribed, step by step dungeon crawl that makes my eyes bleed from boredom. Have fun, make mistakes, learn to play as you like! If people have 'issues' because you have not mastered a character to thier satisfaction, screw 'em.

Is that not true of pretty much every single MMO forum thread? 🙂 All I see typically is a bunch od useless drama around minutae that has little bearing on normal gameplay. Examining others trying to shame them is just full on Creating Problems That Don't Exist. 'Put in the Work' in a video game is pure Protestant Work Ethic guilt trying to ruin the fun...anyone that thinks this way is, IMO, not someone I want to spend time with, in any capacity...it's just an excuse to shame and hate another person, it's childish and uneducated to boot. This is Play, not Work and no one has to live up to the stupid expectaions of other players. 🙂

Personally, not interested in swaying anyone. If people want to put mysticism and feelings into a what are very specific, technological subjects, they are welcome to so, IMO, it's their lives. I see gamers all the time attach personal feelings and self worth on every packet that leaves their computer, as if it has some immense value or some deeply personal information...it's their time and energy to do so, they are welcome to spend their time quashing all the network connections they like. I happen to understand the technology involved at a deep level, which I know not everyone does. Nonetheless, from my POV, it is still simply amusing to me, the level of FUD people pour into this topic - the technology snooping on their private lives. I find it hilarious...I always think it's funny when people make shit up rather than taking the time to really understand. 🙂

Could not agree more. Professional technologist for almost 30 years now. The FUD around all this is staggering.

So, should we all Stan together and have a Best Stan Standing Costume Contest?