ZacKing

Yes. No, you're not the only one who remembers this. It's the sole reason I don't bother testing anything anymore. Like I said earlier, change the "Focused Feedback" thread titles to "Focused Testing" and make it crystal clear that they just want a yes or no that something is working and isn't bugged. Focused feedback threads aren't the only place threads got removed and then people were challenged by HC members to "provide evidence" on a topic. Two that specifically come to mind were threads about a SG named "The Marvels" and why that was allowed, and a "HC Friendly" SG hosting a "Classic 80s" costume contest. That costume contest had people making exact likenesses of existing trademarked properties, down to the exact character name and bio. I specifically remember someone making a character named Marty McFly that was a 100% spot on likeness down to the rocket board and had the character bio directly from the film. There was also a Man-at-Arms from He-Man with the exact name and bio. When some of us questioned why that was allowed, we were given all kinds of excuses of how it's "just characters cosplaying" or the characters were "temporary" and such. When people linked to the CoC and noted there's no mention of "temporary" or "cosplaying" threads started getting removed and when it was called out, GMs were asking people to "show proof" the threads in question existed. The thread asking about "The Marvels" sg (which still exists btw and has never been renamed) had the same treatment. We were told that they "pre-dated the MCU film, so it was ok". Posts that questioned that and asked how HC would have the money to fight for this specific SG in court if they got a C&D from Disney, but not anyone trying to name a SG after a Marvel or DC property gets reported and renamed. Anyway, that's all water under the bridge now so it doesn't matter. GMs will moderate here how they want to moderate and there's nothing any of us can do other than accept it and move on.

My 2 inf - less moderation. It's very easy as a user to filter out noise using the existing tools on the forum, and I really don't need anyone to be the police for or speak for me. I understand why there's Moderators here and I don't think we should get rid of them. Just keep doing what you're doing and run things how you see fit. Lastly, I echo the sentiments @PeregrineFalcon brought up about "feedback" threads getting modded and closed. If you all don't want feedback, then don't ask for it. Just ask people to test something to see if it works the way you want. Don't ask for opinions about a change. Agreed. Maybe changed "Focused Feedback" to "Focused Testing".

There's more to it though, and I suspect you already know that. What you've shown here is one of the many big issues with "saga mode". It's not just about the early game, it's about the late game too. Compare that same power (or a complete build) at level 50 taking full advantage of IO sets and bonuses with a build stuck to SOs. There's no question which one will perform better. The target audience has been said to be "veteran players" who I would assume are familiar with the game and understand builds and IO sets. Supposedly these veterans are bored of farming alts in AE to make funds for kitting out their alts. It sounds to me like those vets are interested in maximizing performance of their characters and planning out builds. Why they'd suddenly decide to limit themselves to SOs only - which is something they can already do now - seems odd. There's quite a lot of people here who would point to this and say it already is game breaking and power creep. I'm not saying that myself, so please don't try to say I am.

Hitting level 50 sadly doesn't mean anything anymore. You've got new players PLing to 50 without knowing how to get out of Pocket D unfortunately. You've also got people with several level 50s who still don't know what they're doing, so just having a 50 doesn't equate to much.

Would you be kind enough to point to the refinements you've made to your idea based on constructive feedback? I don't see them. Thank you. I'm not complaining to you. I'm offering feedback on your idea.

Well no, the "power shuffling" mentioned is different for the reasons already pointed out. I also never said I agreed with the power shuffling. There is a lot of things the HC people do that I don't like. They've made quite a lot of mistakes that they now have to live with. They also have done quite a lot of good things too. Overall they've done more good than bad in my opinion, so I'll continue to spend time here. I'll say again, I think sharing and discussing ideas for how to incentivize more people to play the existing content is a good thing. Expanding the WST to include story arcs would definitely achieve that and wouldn't break the game. What you suggested toward that end with saga mode is game breaking as presented for the host of reasons that have been discussed in the thread, not just by me, but many others. Posters here in this thread have provided you with many logical reasons as to why your idea isn't desirable and as presented would be detrimental to the game. Instead of objectively addressing those concerns and refining your idea, you've gone on the attack to insult anyone who disagrees with you or points out obvious flaws in your suggestion. Take the feedback people have provided you into consideration, refine your idea and propose changes that might make it more workable. Going on the offensive to attack, insult and belittle anyone who disagrees with you isn't helping you.

Again, show me where restructuring granted you access to a level 30+ power at level 2. What Troo tried to make a comparison to is comparing apples to oranges. There were other changes made to these powers along with new mechanics and balance passes as part of the change, not just moving around the order without changing anything about the powers themselves. What your idea is asking for is to just open up access to every power at any level without any changes. That's not the same thing. Keep trying though!

Show me where powers reshuffling granted you access to level 30+ powers at level 2.

LOL! Just stop. I've played this game since 2004, so for me personally, your idiotic idea for saga mode is not compelling. The people I play with, like me, started here because it was the earliest and largest population base that became available. The first thing we did was level up our main characters from the retail days by playing the content. It had everything to do with experiencing the nostalgia from when the game was live and enjoying that we could play in our favorite city again. There were and are still quite a lot of people here who enjoy the content and don't just farm up alts.

Did "power reshuffling" grant you access to level 30+ powers at level 2? No. Good try though.

Power creep is being addressed with the addition of things like hard mode TFs and the Labrynth of Fog. The solution to power creep is to create content that's designed for it, not break the rest of the game. One part of this discussion I do agree with is that the people running the game can't produce content fast enough, so discussing incentives for people to run other content in between content drops is good. Breaking the low level game and progression system isn't solving power creep. It's more like saying "oh well, power creep exists, so may as well just break everything". I think the idea of expanding the WST to include various story arcs is a much better idea to get more people to play older content. There's a tangible reward for doing that and I would guess its easier to implement than something like saga mode.

"Starting over" is essentially a non-issue on other servers since you can create 50s with all the bells and whistles (IOs, badges, incarnates, inf) on demand for free on a couple of the other servers. You can create your main character on them in minutes and go have fun. You can do the exact same thing here on Brainstorm and bypass the whole level progression system, but hardly anyone ever plays on there. Yeah, your characters would get wiped periodically on Brainstorm, but so what? They can be rebuilt again in minutes. As for why there's a population on HC, its because people like how the game plays here. Players fundamentally want to feel like they've earned something in the game, and this server - for better or worse - is providing that experience for them.

And I love people who don't understand the difference between an apple and an orange. "Powers shuffling" didn't give you the ability to pick a level 30 power at level 2, so there's no comparison between "powers shuffling" and "saga mode". Let's try another approach here. One of the stated goals for saga mode is to "breathe new life into old content" by making "lower level content palatable again". Let's say I want to roll an Axe/Shield scrapper. I start out by picking Beheader and Deflection. I run around Atlas Park and defeat some mobs to hit level 2. I visit Miss Liberty and start leveling up. At level 2 I pick Chop. I pick up a door mission and head over to the location. I'm in the mission, clicking Chop and Beheader, wait for them to recharge so I can click them again, rinse and repeat moving from mob to mob until the mission is done. I repeat this process as I run more door missions. Now, let's say I decide to roll another Axe/Shield scrapper using saga mode. I start out by picking Beheader and Deflection. I run around Atlas Park and defeat some mobs to hit level 2. I visit Miss Liberty and start leveling up. At level 2 I pick Cleave since it's available instead of Beheader. I pick up a door mission and head over to the location. I'm in the mission, clicking Chop and Cleave, wait for them to recharge so I can click them again, rinse and repeat moving from mob to mob until the mission is done. I repeat this process as I run more door missions. What's "new" in that scenario and how is it "breathing new life into old content"? I'm still waiting around for powers to recharge, hoping my attacks land and I don't get destroyed waiting around for attacks to recharge. How is that "more palatable"? Next, let's look at this in terms of how power choices and being limited to SOs compares to non-saga mode characters. Playing normally, I gain powers and slots as I level that I can start slotting with IOs to further increase my power level and performance. As I level up, I gain more powerful attacks and defenses. Since I can use IOs, my performance gets even better and can be on par with others on a team. With saga mode, I'd be choosing my best powers first since I can and limiting myself to SOs only. My build and performance get progressively worse as I level up since I only have weaker attacks and defenses available to choose from. Since I'm limited to SOs only, my character performs worse than others who are using IOs. That doesn't sound appealing to me. The incentive to keep playing is the increase in power and performance, not the worsening of it.

Yes, the order does matter. That's why the game is designed the way that it is because the level at which you get access to certain powers matters. Your suggestion is to break that because you're bored of low level content. Your boredom isn't worth breaking the game, sorry. And I agree, you're slapping a new paint job on an old car and calling it a whole new car. It's not. How the game is built and how you progress is a big part of what has endeared the loyal fan base to it over those 20 years. What part of "it would break the game" are you not getting? If you don't understand that, although I suspect you do and are just being obtuse, then I don't know what to tell you. Breaking something that's worked for 20 years and people still are enjoying and playing isn't an improvement. Saga mode isn't innovative. By your own admission, your suggestion would make it easier for people to blow through/speed through low level content, so what's the difference? At least with the WST, there's an incentive for a tangible reward for playing through content. ^ This is an INFINITELY better idea than "saga mode". 100% agreed

100% this! Thank you.

Not every suggestion made here over the years has been met with these responses, just the ones that really are difficult/not feasible to do given the code restrictions, is an idea already implemented on another server or requires anyone to join the volunteer staff.

No IO set bonuses is a flimsy attempt to give the illusion that this "saga mode" is somehow balanced. It isn't. Once again, its opening up access to powers at level ranges the content at those level ranges is not designed or balanced for. No set bonuses will serve no purpose other than to go back to "the old way" of using various pool powers and such to fill gaps as we all did prior to the invention system. It's nothing "new", just a rehashing of the old. This is a volunteer team doing this in their spare time who graciously allow us all to log in. They are under no obligation to allow any of us here. As for "not making content fast enough", that's something that professional game development companies struggle with and can't accomplish. That includes the original developers of this game.

It's not "dogma", it's how the game is built. NPCs and content within specific level ranges are purposely designed and balanced for the available power levels of the players within that given level range. It's a core aspect of the game. There are consequences to giving players abilities that they would normally get in the 20s, 30s, and 40s at level 2. All that would serve to do is further trivialize content. It's not fixing or solving any problem, it's just making new problems and making content even more trivial than it already is. What would be the consequences of players having access to level 30 and 40 powers on a Posi or Synapse TF? Your idea is making those TFs even easier than they already are. That's a negative consequence.

Again, your idea is granting access to powers that the content within the level range isn't designed for. That's breaking the game no matter how you slice it. You're still accessing the same powers within a given set, so it really isn't creating a different build option. Well, I could ask why do you care if people want to PL and skip content? Most everyone I know who farms up alts are doing so because they don't care for the overly repetitive grind of leveling the "traditional/right" way. Seems to me that's what most people looking for farms want to do as well. I'm just being honest, I don't see this idea as enticing enough for them to try it out to play through content they find overly repetitive. It's not making the content any less repetitive and boring for them, just giving them access to abilities that will make it go a little faster, which if given the option to PL instead, they'd still go with PLing in AE.

Well yeah, it is game breaking. You're granting access to powers at levels the content isn't designed or tuned for. That's game breaking. Also, this doesn't make sense since one of your stated goals was to make "lower level content more appealing", but now you're suggesting players using this would "burn through levels" so they can blow past lower level content faster. Yeah no, it wouldn't have any real impact on people looking for farms, if any at all. "Saga mode" would mean players would actually have to play the game. Quite a lot of people looking for farms don't want to play the lower level content. It's why people run DFBs, DiBs and AE farms.

Love these suggestions. I really hate that there are a couple of powers that say they have "no vfx", but they actually do have some. Alternate animations are always welcome to me.

How is saga mode going to make that any different other than to give you a nuke at level 2 so you can blow through content even faster?

Not only that, how does the shield bounce off things and ricochet on command? Vibranium is supposed to absorb kinetic energy... so why doesn't it absorb the kinetic impact of being slammed into something?

What if they're a Bots MM named "Dr. Megabot"? Green skin and purple pants is a very loose criteria to use to "get someone into trouble". I wouldn't even consider someone with green skin and purple pants a violation of any kind. This is where context is important. A character with green skin and purple pants named Hulk with a bio that references being a rage monster created by getting caught in a gamma bomb explosion? Yup, that's a violation of the rules. Just having green skin and purple pants? Nope. Depends on several other factors.

Correct and that was the point being made, which was lost and further muddied by the selective editing of this thread. Disney throwing hundreds of millions at these MCU films doesn't automatically equate to big box office returns. Maybe they'd do better to focus more on story and characterization and saving the big expensive VFX spectacles for the Endgame level team up films. From what I've read, Disney is no longer automatically greenlighting anything related to the MCU and there's been a lot of interviews with Bob Iger over the last year or so where he talks about scaling back the number of MCU films and streaming shows per year. Just recently read some articles where Disney has cancelled the bulk of the MCU projects on the slate because they don't see them as being profitable. Having seen most of the MCU films now, I can definitely see the decline in quality story. The focus seems to have become more VFX and more big action sequences instead of just having a good story. Other than the Marvels (which was sewage IMO), the other MCU films like Quantumania weren't as awful as some of these YouTubers say, but I get that it's subjective.