Bill Z Bubba

It's a whole thing. I still haven't done it at all but I get how the builds lean on tactics/focused accuracy to cover the tohit side and leaning on extra slots in conserve power and ageless for recovery. I don't do it. Generally my attacks at the end have the 5th purple proc and an extra proc and that's that. Edit: If I can get away with it I'll use the dam from the purple set instead of the dam/rec but that's a rarity.

Quibbling. Value of mitigation difference, using your quibble, FAR exceeds overall damage output. Fact. You know the game tracks damage done right? There's a badge for it. Easy to test using farm maps.

Again, you lie. Brutes can not achieve tank mitigation values without outside help because the base values are at scrapper levels. All they share is caps and any brute you build, I can copy as a tank and have superior mitigation. This is a fact. What you spew is lies. Edit: Also see HP caps.

No it doesn't. It shows a claws tanker can outdamage a claws brute with spin at the damage caps and hitting all enemies possible. Of course, it does also show that over time, the tank is always going to surpass the brute in aoe damage just as the brute will always surpass the tank in single target damage, as you've agreed to. My point stands: Tanks have superior mitigation across the board 100% of the time and at no time deserve to do more damage in any area of the game than the brute. Those that think otherwise don't give a shit about balance between the archetypes and really should quit lying about it.

Riiight. Cuz it's not easy as hell to dig out the info on every AoE thanks to CoD being updated.

Claws Spin against 1 target Scrapper - 98.8472 Brute - 78.8276 Tank - 99.8481 At caps: Scrapper: 98.8472*5*10 = 4942 or maybe 9885 Brute: 78.8276*7*10 = 5518 Tank: 99.8481*5*16 = 7988 You were saying? It vastly is when you're not playing on easy mode.

Oh FFS. Did you mean they don't do more damage than brutes? If they are doing more AoE damage than brutes, then they are doing more damage in an area of their performance. If they are doing less single target damage, as they should and do, then that is going to affect their overall performance. Were they CORRECTLY doing less AoE damage than brutes, then the clear all times would be APPROPRIATELY larger than they are. Tanks should NOT have been granted better AoE capabilities than the other melee archetypes unless their base damage was so low that it would remain lower than the other archetypes. Edit: And WHY is this? Because tanks have vastly superior mitigation than the other melee archetypes 100% of the time so should NEVER have better damage output at any level, at all, ever.

100% agreed. Every power in this game should have its affects altered in consideration of the power's cast time. (Yes, arcanatime, not stated cast time.)

It certainly is closer to that for tanks versus brutes than it ever was on live. Again, the AoE changes were grossly unnecessary and unwarranted. Tanks, having vastly superior mitigation 100% of the time should NEVER do more damage than the brute. Full stop. Stating otherwise shows a complete lack of respect for an level of archetype balance.

I'm pretending nothing. I'm especially not pretending that this crap is balanced because I've ALWAYS had some bias for tanks, thinking that they should be the Supermen of CoH and all other melee ATs should be inferior across the board like some people obviously do.

Show me your Werner rules ITF runs with your brutes.

That is obviously what he wants everyone to ignore.

100 * 16 = 1600. 120 * 10 = 1200. Who is doing more raw damage again?

So the hell what? Its single target damage is still greater. Awesome. That means something ONLY against AVs, Pylons and GMs. For the rest of the time, read vastly more of the time, the tank is dishing out more. And that should NEVER be the case since the tank is running with vastly more damage mitigation 100% of the time.

Horse manure. It drastically increased the tank's raw damage output in every area of the game where the number of enemies around the player is greater than the brute's aoe cap. Edit: Ooops, also when more enemies could be fit into the tank's now larger range for its aoes.

Only because someone decided it to be without taking into consideration at ALL of the actual outcome of such a change and its affect on archetype balance.

Can always move it over to here: But really... any discussion of game balance needs to take into account the "balance philosophy" of those in control and problems with that philosophy need to be pointed out.

I'm not a fan of cheating. I don't leverage AAO with monkeys while I fight pylons. But I absolutely did attempt to remain at the aggro cap when possible during the test runs for both the brute and the tank. And I did have sprint on for both and I did fight the same way with the same tactics throughout.

I do love me some pylon killing.

And his damage output will suffer for it, dropping him below the tank.

But yea, sure, I'll go get some pylon times with this combo. Shouldn't take more than an hour or so. Since I don't feel like working today anyway. 🙂

But since folks have asked. Missing is Office Mission Simulator by Galaxy Brain on Beta. Ran at +4/x8, clearing everything. Here's the tank build. Only difference for the brute is using brute AT IOs instead of tank AT IOs. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1510;687;1374;HEX;| |78DA6594596B13511886CF341363B6365DD3DA355D93493B4DD41B3704ED629740A| |1EA8520616CC73418D292B4602F05D75B05FD055E78E3CF71BDF017747145C13A7E| |99F7350E642079CEBCE7DB734E72776722AFE7EF5D545AE472C9AA56F357ADF21DB| |BE2CF5985E29A922770C3AA14ED921590753F36F333F66DBB5CB5CDD50DD959FFF7| |DAC3DD9C5DB26D73B66C570ABB7851E195CDCD9239572A1636B643EE7A75CBB6D72| |3EE72D9B6B68AE54214363513798BCF6E15D7CC4B959D6D3BBFBAB953CAE7ACEAB6| |5DD9ED96320CF9CC44E54BAB15E8F8D59C4FA96C50352D908BA0BE54A3AEF46FE0B| |1EFE0F190E2E3285554AE362BF134C6D3F6697F40FB43F23318FA427E25259E0FF1| |FCBEF126578B24C914D86C9069309617F3095DCD495E3FF3FA1734578B2D826DD73| |4D7B6ED3AD8619026382FBE01F611482BB7E7B008416AC15ED4372C5A1839B430ED| |BAC8058911E55EF4A8F61BEBAAAB13F123D2570B62E92D679A5CFBEEB3E439F0C47| |9F202FABA22F15ADD413AAA35811C3189D3CEF9B4DFD75DBBE907E443F211987D4C| |3E0117255E27EAF375C650575F1BD90E66596F97F419672FF19AADF432C0BD2589D| |3C35E7A7EA3D68123F20F38E4900A736B96BA7BE1A3F5725E43AF60A349AE7ECEB9| |9F676859720C521BDC438C35C1307B1F9E84EFB8494E931970224B4EC2B745F28FF| |16C8CBD8136F1164CBD23DF83C607F223E893FA92F44DF2FCA778FE8D9FE0E42FF2| |2419C7CC74F14D73E669CE7C8AB39EEA2039D7A0D89AECD9A4F629A254865A86672| |0A5D7EFABD3A77BEE9F238F5AF62AF458D1E9209AE65AED85EA77546953B0DAF76A| |496807FF355DEB436F89017064901C024713E061C873FF9FE277483C239F83232FC| |0D1439CCDD11FE04BA35EBD6334F4966950B20DCAA906E57483128CD5FF659C15A9| |36CB69DEF2AC2DCFFAA667FD17A304E15E| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

You do get that the brute BARELY won doing something that is the most common behavior in the entirety of CoH, right? Defeating spawns in missions. To go further, this same brute walked into an ITF and faceplanted because its mitigation simply can NOT handle the incoming damage in there, regardless of its damage output. Could this be corrected? Sure. At the cost of other aspects of the build.

There's a few more Minions and LTs in missions than AVs and Pylons. But sure. I already know that my claws tank is 30 seconds behind my claws brute. A whole whopping 30 seconds while still have 20something % more mitigation. (Which is probably not an accurate number since we all know that mitigation truth comes from damage taken.)

Shield depends on how many targets are in range. Bio doesn't care.