Abraxus

They are considered that way, but only because folks (particularly younger folks) are always looking for that BBD (bigger, better deal). Forums might be older tech, but for archival information, they beat the hell out of Discord, or any social media outlet I typically use. Here, you "sticky" an important piece of information, and you never have to say it again. Just point new folks to it when the same old questions come up. I know Discord has the ability to pin some messages as well, but it's more limited. Plus, the infinity scroll in Discord, means you probably miss out on some valuable conversations just because there is no telling how far you have to scroll up to find it. Here, you can scan page by page, or jump a couple to get to what you want. Take the monthly donations. So many folks complain that they never know when it's happening, because they don't go to the two main places where it's posted. The forum, and the HC Discord. For some, apparently even the in-game pop-ups aren't enough, but there will always be a few of those. Bottom line, the scrolling nature of most other platforms means that the same questions keep getting asked by newcomers, and folks who have answered them hundreds of times, get tired of answering. So, there are advantages to this "old" tech, even if it's not give the credit it's due for what it does better. Their failure to recognize it's advantages does not invalidate them, but rather brings them into sharp relief when they complain about the lack of information. 😎

Which is funny, considering that in order to even play on Homecoming, a forum account, and a game account had to be created right here. So, it's not that they were unaware, but it could certainly be assumed that not all of them picked-up on the fact that this, and the Homecoming Discord were going to be the main sources of information going forward.

I can totally see your point about it being a lower priority, because with the level of generosity out there, the window closes in just over an hour. But, if a simple sticky gives more folks the ability to contribute by way of having the information easily available to do so, it's probably worthwhile. The donation window will still close quickly, and more folks might get the satisfaction of having helped. As complaints go, not being able to give money is a pretty good one, but also one that is easier to address than most. 😉

Until the legal issues are resolved, we can't know what things currently fall under the NDA, and therefore cannot be discussed, or shared. So, sharing what the future may hold is very likely difficult once the things that are covered under NDA are stripped away. I sure wouldn't want to have to do that legal dance every day, if I were one of the Devs. I think they do a pretty good job of communicating the things they can talk about. But, continually telling us that most things can't be discussed because of the on-going legal talks (since that's all they can really say) isn't really necessary. Most of us know that, and for those that don't, there are plenty of us to let them know. 🙂

They do announce on their Discord, and here on the Forum. Not sure what else they can do. The donation window always opens on the last Saturday of the month, so all it takes is watching those sources on that day for the exact time. 😎🙂

*lol* I have 5 or 6 toons in the AE fire farms beyond my prime/main, so one of them will still be after ya!

Aye! The finished results will only be as good as the testing. That has always been the case, but with the smaller player numbers we have, compared to the "live" days, it is more incumbent on us to help out, and be a part of the process. If we're not willing to do that, then we don't really have much room to complain if undesirable side-effects show themselves when it goes into production. It's pretty obvious that we have some folks out there who are dialed-in to the workings of the game to have discovered, and document what happened once the changes went live. Just a bit of that same kind of diligence on Pineapple could potentially have discovered the problems, and a fix would have been done before proceeding. If we want the game to be better in the process change/improvement, then we are going to have to be partners in that process. Not bystanders.

I think the best, and only advice I can offer here, without wandering into very undiplomatic discourse is, to ask that you have a little faith in the folks who DO actually know this code, and are working quite hard to make a resurrected game, even better than it was. That is going to require a few of things on all our part. 1. Better participation in beta testing on Pineapple before these things roll live to ensure that all the variables, and combinations can be accounted for in proposed changes. If we don't test adequately, pointing the finger elsewhere isn't really right. Is it? 2. Less complaining when things don't go quite as planned, as a result of item number 1. 3. A modicum of patience for a group of folks who rely on US to tell them how changes affect game play, and are doing their level best on our behalf for no compensation. Personally, I don't think that's a lot to ask.

...and to the GMs and Mods of the present. May their course be true, and their determination remain steadfast.

It's natural over the course of time, and the longer things go on, the more of it we will experience. The Dev/GM team during the live days had their core members from start to finish (though not that many), but there was a lot of new blood that came along during the run of the game. I expect things to be no different now. The hope is that their enthusiasm, and fresh perspective bring things to the game, and our experience with that that just keep making it better.

Oh! Now you've gone and said it! I expect to see one before the end of the day! 😂

Personally, I agree with the approach so far. They do have something of a roadmap, and Jimmy was good enough to reiterate it here. 1. Get the legacy client issue resolved completely. 2. Fix completely issues with previous patches/changes before moving on. 3. Complete the legal process, on which so much depends. 4. Don't attempt anything HUGE (or promise/hint at such) until all of that is good Points 1, and 2 are well underway, and each of them is a lot of work on their own. Point 3, well things like that go at the speed of the corporate legal system, and there is nothing on the planet that will make it go any faster. So, have patience. Point 4 is a wise course, given the other 3. In the meantime, we have CoH to play, and that is enough to get me through to the good stuff on the other side. There are other servers doing things that folks are aware of, and wonder why the same things can't just be done here. I believe all of the respective servers are now on their own development path. Some of those changes might eventually come this way, but not before we get the current business finalized. Given all the plates currently spinning, we have been given a lot already, but we always seem to want the shiny objects we've seen elsewhere too. I think it's been said many times, but it's still applicable. We really have to keep expectations realistic, and look at what we've got, as opposed to what others have.

Jimmy just announced that a bunch of bug fixes for the I26, Page 4 patch are out on Pineapple. This is the chance for us to hit it hard, and see what works, and what still doesn't! Test, or forever hold your peace! 😉

Yeah, it's hard to think of every possible permutation. But, the idea is that no one person will know it all, or be able to test it all. But, the combined efforts of multiple folks doing testing on the same feature will typically happen upon a problem, if there is one to be found.

It's the "deep cut" equivalent of the Homecoming Forum. 😎

It's nobody's duty. We do, because we want to do. The "feels" come from knowing we are supporting something that is worthy of not only existence, but also to flourish, and improve. Now that things are a little more personal with the small group of Devs that support this game, it feels more like helping them do what they do, rather than supporting a huge corporations pursuit of unrealistic profit expectations.

I can't speak for the Devs, but I would think reading through the patch notes to see what specifically is being changed, and to concentrate testing efforts on a power, AT, or mission that would seem most directly involved. That's how I approach it anyway.

True. But, the other side of that, is the possibility that some really bad ones can come from it as well. 😉 Leaving room for interpretation allows for both.

I do that with every character I have, typically more than once. I love that TF!

Feels good, doesn't it? Giving something back, for all that we get?

Once the changes went live, it didn't take long for reports of issues to appear. This tells me that more thorough testing could potentially have revealed the issue, but it would have taken folks to be testing diligently, and specifically for the changes. I don't know if that was happening for sure, or not. My original point was that the Devs are doing their level best to make things better, and following the best course possible to ensure that the likelihood of introducing an unintended issue to the production environment is minimal. They don't cut corners, and they don't rush things. In fact, I heard a lot of clamoring about the length of time some of these changes were in the test environment, urging them to hurry up and release them. Bottom line is, nobody ever promised, or even really implied that a bug, or combination of bugs making it through testing undetected was beyond the realm of possibility. Especially, as you rightly point out, with the lower overall population, with an even lower percentage willing to participate in testing. But, the Devs did their due diligence with this process. I only suggest that if we were as earnest in our efforts to validate them before they have an effect on our Fire Farms, or specific cherished ATs, the bugs could have been detected in test, as quickly as they were once they were released to the live servers. I would also agree that their response to the issues has been much quicker, and enthusiastic than we ever used to get during the live days, and I have no doubts about their dedication to correcting these issues as quickly as circumstances allow. I'm not saying that anyone in particular is fomenting ill will, or assuming anything other than good intentions on the part of the Devs. But, there have been comments that hinted at it, and I could not in good conscience let that go unnoticed, or unaddressed.

Mine is in. It's amazing that with a target that sizable, and the window only having been open for a small amount of time, at this time it is already at 80%. I've no doubt that the goal will be met in the next 30 minutes, or so; once again demonstrating the generosity of this community.

Are we really questioning the competence of the guy(s) who know this game from it's deepest levels (at the code base), rather than questioning our own diligence at testing all possible permutations prior to implementation? I do hope I am misinterpreting these comments. These folks are doing their best to interpret 15 year old code, that was not done in the most organized way from the start. Just ways that made what the original developers wished to do, happen in the most expedient way possible. Much has been stacked on top of that over the years, and now, in an effort to give us more of what we want, and make things better, the new developers are attempting to interpret all of that, and make changes to accommodate. They allow for the possibility that there could be inadvertent issues created by any change, since pulling any thread in this delicate, and intricate tapestry could have unintended consequences. They do this by putting those changes in a test environment, and imploring us to beat it up to expose the exact kinds of things we are seeing. That we apparently didn't test as effectively, or vigorously as the subtleties of the issue required, is regrettable. But, not the fault of the folks attempting to make the game better for us (for free I might add). It is incumbent on us, as players to help them sort these kinds of things out. We are their best source of this kind of information. They cannot do it alone. The same was true when the game was live, and there were times when the exact same things happened, despite the fact that there were many more players who participated in testing. So, before casting aspersions on these great folks that provide all of this for us, perhaps take a little more introspective look at ourselves, and admit that our dependence on others to test, rather than more of us helping out is more responsible for this, than any lack of skill on the part of the Devs. More thorough testing might, or might not have actually caught these latest bugs. But, it stood a greater chance than relying on the Devs to do it for us, blaming them when it had unintended side-effects, and insisting that the changes be rolled back, or fixed ASAP. I propose that we all have more of an investment in this endeavor, and act in the role of partners in the process of development, rather than just its beneficiaries. Things can only benefit from a situation such as that, and participation, rather than complaint is a lot more satisfying.

That sounds about right.

I agree. But, sometimes, some minimal context is useful, so that others to understand the inspiration for the sentiment. When I read it, the first thing that came to mind was another player who loved the game, only just realized that CoH was back, after being gone for so long, and was telling us he was home at last. Then I looked at your post count, and deduced that you were a player who has been around for a bit since the revival, and was still quite happy the game was back, and that it was there to play whenever the opportunity presented itself. So, in that context, it was a statement of contentment, and satisfaction. So, while my thoughts on your post lack the brevity, and simplicity initially expressed, I feel like it could be a somewhat accurate interpretation. In any case, I share your feelings on the game, and the contentment of knowing it is there when I can find the opportunity. 😀😎