Infinitum

Whether intentional, unintentional, nefarious or pure the topic was originally a call to nerf. No other way to spin it. So here we are.

the intent may be to ruin it though. if the desired result is to nerf it, that could be considered attempting to ruin it, especially when no evidence can be provided as to why exactly the game is broken because of it. Pointing to other games doesnt provide any evidence that the diseased imbalance exists here or will ever exist here. I believe that is where the opinion comes from, and why its a valid concern.

A little different here because people who are wanting to balance TW whether needed or not could ruin the game for someone whether or not that is rhe intent. So there is basis for not liking the stance and who has the stance of changing something they like.

Well show me where it is then.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, thats why I was wondering if the test couldn't be increased in difficulty as an additional metric so there is a threat and then a reaction to a threat.

There are no rules if you don't know them. You can poke at emotional reactions all you want but they have a place also. At least they are enjoying the game not freaking out about a mythical balance that doesnt yet exist and may never have existed with this game.

There is motive behind everything, just because a point is an emotional reaction doesnt make it a bad point even if its an illogical one. Who is to say which motive is right or wrong but just because its wrapped up in a sound logical argument doesn't necessarily make the intent pure. Quoting the debate rules handbook wont win anyone over that dont get it anyway.

Where are the numbers reported again?

Agree 100% to both points, though with enough tests run variances in player ability should be averaged out to a baseline eventually, however with newer sets like TW and sets that have mechanics that affect damage and recharge, the baseline could vary wildly because there is a certain level of skill needed to maximize those. The trick to those will be where should the balance point be? My stance for TW is high level performance should not be penalized because if it does bring the outlier in line the low skill or novice will suffer those versions of TW out of existence. I'm hoping that this will be a tool to illustrate what needs buffs moreso than what needs to be balanced down.

Everyone has a motive hidden somewhere even if its shrouded behind debate and formal argument terms. Doesnt make the persons point any less valid either way. They play the game too. For instance I couldnt tell you what an ad hominem is. And I dont care enough to look it up.

You are mistaking a debate team argument for a conveyance of feeling and opinion. And there is nothing wrong with either. It's getting a little annoying seeing logical fallacy this logical fallacy that, honestly. I'm not on a debate team, I'm not here to win an argument, it's opinion and sharing of feelings. Nothing more, you don't have to win a debate or prove anything to tell it like you see it. Right or wrong. The fact that it isn't structured in argument form doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion or what the are feeling, because that matters too.

I don't play TW though.

Yep thats what I was planning, thanks!

Psi melee is mah thang. lol im just hoping I do t get it nerfed by doing these tests. I think id probably puke.

Their opinion matters also though, a lot of us have been burned badly by nerfs in the past, unjustified ones IMO so you have to meet their opinion half way at and least understand why. There is reason behind them and I get it. Thats why this has to be tested till we are blue in the face to make sure its not a knee jerk in any direction.

I will post a screenshot of my slotting to see if its acceptable before I do anything though. Also what is the ae map number?

I'm going to test psi melee with wp and invul on a scrapper tomorrow, its my day off. Can you give me specifics on how we are slotting stuff like stamina and health power pools etc.

i wouldnt call that overperforming at all though. I missed that part, where did the 7:10 come from?

Unless its a game where you are supposed to be, and also at varying levels of being super and capable of doing it at least a thousand times anyway you choose. Super, not as super, most super, totally overpowered, no toggles, Ill advised designs. There js no excuse for having any issue in this game, because you are in the drivers seat. Lile the people wanting to take dbl xp away, why? You do t like it dont take it. Dont take it away from people that like it.

For instance, there was much butthurt surrounding EM back when that fiasco went down, and a lot of the butthurt ones are who ultimately brought it down. We would by lying to ourselves if we said it wasn't in some part the same about TW. Me, I just don't want sweeping downward changes to melee. If changes are needed it needs to be upward maybe not to top tier or above levels but upward then revisited later. I think a big problem is we don't know what the target balance point is or should be. No doubt TW is top shelf, but with a ton of drawbacks built into it. I think there are 3 or 4 up there with it though - from a brute perspective. Just out of curiosity, how accurate is the dps analyzer in mids? Btw. Haven't been posting as much because I have a sick kid at home, and im also having a UC flare, I'm not abandoning this topic and will help as much as I can, but I really don't feel well right now, so, sorry about that.

I thought we already decided that if it was within a reasonable range it wouldn't need toning down. Motives do matter also, to pretend like they dont is naive at best.

Thats probably not the best idea though, because everyone plays differently, if you want the most accurate result, the same person, group of people should do all the testing.

well pick 3 then average them, something this important shouldnt exclude the weaknesses and include only the ones that makes it stronger

I think invul would be fair, its one of the older sets so it would give you a good competing data set.

but to simulate how someone may choose something in game i dont see how running a different secondary could do anything but add to the data thats being collected - if you really are wanting the most accurate data that simulates what you would see in game thats one suggestion