Infinitum

Not since the update - and with the ATOs it should be fine - i have ran with an all brute team and we generated plenty of fury. Brutes now get bonus fury generation in teams - the larger the team, the larger the bonus.

Exactly. lol. To the point of 8 brutes vs 8 tankers The spawn size of 16 will be decimated either way - but if any bosses are present - the brutes with the higher dmg per attack will take them out faster than the tanker team every time. It would be close though but the advantage from a dps standpoint is in the brutes court.

Very good analysis! If you have a team of 8 brutes vs a team of 8 tankers which one will move faster? Mop up AOE is largely irrelevant in most team situations unless the tanker or brute is carrying the whole team - then 8 would say it favors the tanker. I think solo still favors the brute in terms of dmg output because eventually - if you are facing them - the bosses have to be dealt with.

I have been looking the last day and a half at my brute and tanker builds that have the same attack/defense sets in them. Basically on each one the Brute always has more dmg output from 50% fury up - usually i can hit and stay pretty close to 90% fury in most engagements which is where it blows the tanker dmg away. Thats not saying the tanker dmg i have is bad either - but the brutes are just better when it comes to dmg by anywhere from 15-40% depending on which attack was being cast. Now, having said that. The tanker numbers for Def/Res/HP are always better also - by anywhere from 15-30% depending on which defense set we are looking at. Now the long and the short of it is the Brutes i have never have any issue tanking any content - and the tankers i have never have any issue outputting decent damage - but they both play differently. The brutes never slow down when attacking hard targets where the tankers stagnate slightly - but not bad enough to notice and lose sleep about it. The tankers mop up minions a little faster than the brutes do but thats by design through the update. At the end of the day they both come out even from how i slot and build mine - which i place emphasis on survivability first on my brutes and tankers. A tactic i use on some of my brutes are to get both melee core and assault core so i can swap them out for particular mission content. If i need a brute to be extra durable i will go with melee core - if i want to move faster i go assault core. I use the same tactic on my tankers - even though melee core is massively overkill on them - sometimes having the extra regen is nice. Even when the brute is in melee core and the tanker is in assault radial the brute is still outputting more dmg than the tanker. From my perspective - which i know is not the only one - the tankers getting the boost they got - has not deterred me from running brutes - because they are a similar AT that plays a little more fast - and sometimes you want that rush, but at the same time any one of my 6 Brutes can tank any content - and has done so the past 2 years. My mindset is and was even before the tanker update - when i wanted to tank content i brought a brute or tanker - when i want to output extreme damage i bring a scrapper or stalker.

I am picturing GB with a sly grin on a roof somewhere with a 🎻 LoL

You are the one putting words in my mouth - I guarantee you I can build amsimilar brute to survive well like a tanker and exceed the tankers dmg output easily on probably 98% of builds. Why? Because thats how brutes play, how they are designed. You are purposely overlooking and sidestepping that. You want that axe really sharp.

I did not lie - I said far exceeds - it doesnt far exceed - it may exceed but its not a stretch amount unless you poison your build to make it that way.

You are still cherry picking one power and making a false claim that tanker mitigation far exceeds a brutes - thats simply false - you can get very close to tanker res and set numbers with a brute - while outputting far more dmg But You know this already. Keep grinding that axe big guy.

About as easy as factoring the dps of a whole attack chain vs 1 power Because the takeaway from your previous post looks like a claws tanker can out damage a scrapper and a brute. And thats not the case with either when you factor in dps over time.

Thats cherrypicking one freeze frame of 1 power - deliberately, so yeah your whole structure of your argument is flawed. I'm sure you will disagree but it wont make you any more correct. Ps I don't play on easy mode unless people ask me to. Its always +4/8 unless I'm being respectful to someone elses wishes.

And dont pretend like survivability is an issue with any of these ATs.

Their dmg is lower than the other ATs - doesnt matter how many they hit over time eventually the brute, scrapper or stalker will surpass the tanker.

They dont do more dmg than tankers Even your test showed that. Your tanker build has vastly more mitigation because you built it that way,,I'd be willing to wager you could,make that brute stronger.

Thats not even close to how the game is right now.

Following second 100*1 = 100 120*6 = 720 1600+100 = 1700 1200+720 = 1920 In two seconds against the same spawn what was the larger dps again?

Ah nope, mine don't have that issue you are pretending your little test is the only build in the multiverse for brutes - and thsts not correct.

Well mine do. * grin*

.its aoe dmg is greater too, its still hitting the hard targets with more rw aoe dmg even if its not hitting as many. The tank isnt dishing out more dmg - its just hitting more targets. Once the brutes cap catches the tanker its dmg output leaves it behind as it should.

What you are saying here is missing the point badly. Tanker kills 16 minions in 1 second Brute killes 10 in 1 second In the following second of time the brute kills the remaining 6 but also has whittled the boss down to 50 percent The Tanker is still at 75 percent on the boss In the following second the brute ST attacks the boss to finish it The tanker ST hits the boss and is only down to 25 percent. Both are good - both have a place - but the brute outputs more raw dmg. And it matters.

The brute will kill stonger enemies faster still no matter how many are around. Thats a fact.

It didn't imbalance anything - it gave the tankers a better role while not infringing on the brutes raw dmg output.

But.... Again..... The tanker is supposed to hit more now - thats it's schtick - the brute is supposed to excel at raw dmg output which wont necessarily translate out to a map clear which favors the tanker because of how tankers are now. Im not saying the aoe doesnt count - I'm saying its not gauging the brutes raw dmg output well. The fact that the brute still won with smaller aoe arcs demonstrates in my mind they still do more dmg by a good margin - 8% doesnt gauge 8% more dmg just a clear time because - again - if the tanker kills a 100 hp minion with 110 dmg in 1 second and the brute kills a 100 hp minion with 130 dmg in one second - the brute still did more dmg but wasnt noticed because it's dmg was overkill against the minion and tied the tanker in kill speed.

No, you started this you must suffer the consequences meow. 😆

But.... Again. lol the tanker is able to hit more through AOE. The brutes raw dmg is still a lot more by default - the fact that the brute won against the tankers strength is telling IMO