Saikochoro

Childish behavior is not solely unique to those who don’t like changes. I agree that it does happen, but that is not always the case. There have been many times when people test a change, provide thoughtful feedback without any “childish behavior” and then proceed to get ridiculed for it. So they defend themselves and it turns into arguments. The assumption that childish behavior is unique to those expressing dislike of a change or even always starts with them is completely false. And yet you lump the whole group in with that false accusation and summarily dismiss them and their concerns.

Obviously my post went over your head. That first sentence was rude, but keeping it there to acknowledge that it was rude. Let me try to clarify. The changes themselves don’t actually matter. The way the discussion is handled is the problem. Most people will get on board with just about any change as long as they feel they are being heard rather than just tolerated at best and more often than not antagonized. Someone doesn’t have to agree with you or even accept your opinion for you to feel that your voice is respected and heard.

People absolutely have been shouted down for disliking a change. I’ll be honest and say I was even one of those people in the beginning of the game and for that I am ashamed. Sometimes it takes drinking your own medicine to see what you are doing to others (the “you” I’m talking about is me early on in the forums). I remember I think I was actually shouting down @Bill Z Bubbaat some point. I know I definitely shouted down the tactical arrow dissent. And yes, those people were actually testing things. And they expressed their dislike of it. My eyes were finally opening with the rune of protection changes. I experience what I did to others and finally saw what was happening. I had very thoroughly tested the changes and tried my best to put up meaningful feedback. Then I, along with several others, where repeatedly challenged and basically told to stop complaining. And honestly, after that, I realized it’s not really even the fact that things change that bother me. I can easily get over rune changes. If they nerf shield to the ground will I complain about it? Hell yes. But will that make stop playing the game? No. Nerfs happen. Big deal. If they nerf tankers to the ground will I complain? Yes. Will it make me stop playing? No. In the grand scheme of things nerfs and buffs and changes don’t really matter. It sparks debate for sure. What really bothered me was how certain portions of the player base heavily invested in testing and the homecoming team very much felt that they were not respecting all voices being heard. I know I am not the only who felt that way or continued to feel that way. Whether they are intending on that or not, it IS coming off that way for some people. And that does drive people away a lot more readily than ANY nerf or buff will. At the very least it heavily discourages them from doing any testing in the future. I can take just about any change to my favorite sets that you can throw my way. I, however, do not like feeling like I’m being relegated to the reject group and not respected just because I complained about something. My biggest regret on these boards was that I also did that early on. That’s why I bring it up again because people still do it. Maybe they don’t even realize they do it. But I know that several people feel that way including me. And honestly, that alone has made me feel like not logging in anymore.

People expressing discontent with the direction of the game aren’t drumming up drama. The drama does generally ensue from that, but expressing dislike of changes itself isn’t drama. Players have taken time to thoroughly test changes, post detailed feedback, and then get shouted down by the forum police in every beta. All the usual suspect happen almost every time. Someone tests and posts they don’t like something. Forum police come and say one of the following general ideas to antagonize those who already dislike something happening with the game: - devs are volunteers and don’t owe anyone anything -stop posting negative feedback back and go test. If you actually tested you would like it. -stop being negative -etc Then arguments ensue. GMs moderate and remove posts. Some posts on both sides get removed, but they clearly moderate those expressing discontent more strictly. They even have told people to stop talking about a change they don’t like and test other stuff. @Bill Z Bubba said it perfectly when he said that people can either agree with the devs/gms/forum police or STFU. People doing real testing get shouted down and discouraged from doing further testing. So it all eventually becomes an echo chamber. That is not a community coming together. That is beating a subset of the “community” into submission or driving them away.

I enjoy my ma/Regen brute immensely. It quit live before the power proliferations. Ma/Regen brute was what I had always wanted to make and I am not disappointed. It’s not a top tier performer, but it gets the job done without much fuss and is a lot of fun. I made a super strength/energy aura brute that I was really excited about since that is a combo only available to brutes. I was actually disappointed. It performed great. Both sets are very good. It was very tanky, and did great damage outside of rage crash. But I just hate the rage crash. Despite what I just said about hating rage crash, I still like the classic super strength/fiery aura brute. Hits like a freight train. You can proc out to be able to do something during the crash and it’s fun. Lastly, I also very much enjoy savage melee/bio armor brute. It is fast paced and really feels like a crazed brute on a frenzy. I think for the fun factor, since that is what makes me go back to characters, my ma/Regen is my favorite brute.

That beta was where I finally caught on to how the devs treat feedback threads. I did some very thorough testing and stated my opinions on the matter. Yes, I was against the change. But then putting the change through is not what ultimately bothered me. It was the dev response to negative feedback, clearly biased moderation, and how’s the devs decided to obtain and weigh feedback the really bothered me. Bothered me to the point that I just had to take a break from the game for close to a year. Fanboys can be annoying, but they honesty don’t bother me to much. Other forum users can fanboy, spout doom and gloom, fun police, or just straight up troll. It can be annoying, but it doesn’t really get me to reconsider spending time in a community. If that were true I wouldn’t last more than a couple minutes in the overwatch cesspool of forums. I know I mentioned the direction of the game in my post. I don’t even have a problem with that. It’s how the devs engage in feedback threads that I have a problem with. I felt, and continue to feel, that the way the devs ask for and respond to feedback is very poor. This extends to moderation. It is very clearly biased against negative feedback. Those supportive of a change will get in arguments with those against. It will get heated and often both sides will become antagonistic. Those against a change will be heavily moderated and those for a change will not. I even recall that in the rune thread. I had comments deleted that said almost the same thing as those supporting a change and the support was left up. The devs also discourage negative feedback from threads telling people to stop discussing a change and that stating you don’t like the change is not feedback. That over simplifies peoples concerns and brushes them aside. Telling someone to stop caring about what they care about and go test something else isn’t helpful. The devs have also been straight up rude at times. Not saying players haven’t. And honestly, that’s fine. It’s their game. They can conduct themselves and their betas however they see fit. I, however, feel “feedback” threads are not actually feedback threads. Sometimes they roll a change back, true, but the track record has been to generally discourage negative feedback and encourage positive feedback. If they just want a bug testing thread, then they should call it such. If they want an echo chamber of positive affirmations, then they should call it such. I don’t expect the devs to change to suit my preferences. Again, it is their game. But I am not going to waste hours testing something just to get backlash from the dev team who supposedly wanted feedback. It’s not worth my time. So I’m not invested in the game or the dev team. I still like the game and play it. The devs are still doing a great service keeping it alive. But their behavior in betas has muted my interest in trying to be a part of its development via feedback. And because I’m not invested in how the game changes, it just overall lessens my interest in the game. But that is just me. I don’t claim to represent how anyone else feels. The devs should continue to do what they feel is best. I will also continue to do what I feel is best with free time.

100% agree. Early on I joined in with the nothing being done is bad crowd. I then felt what some of the others felt in being shouted down for having unfavorable opinions. I then observed that there is a double standard applied especially in beta testing. Those that agree with all the devs decisions often get a pass even when being antagonistic. Those that disagree with the devs are moderated. It’s really not the actual changes that have caused me to scale back my interest in the game. It is the double standard that is applied and the backlash from part of the community and the devs themselves when people express discontent. That and the fun police mentality. To each their own though. I’m genuinely happy for the people that still very much enjoy the game and the direction it has taken.

I used to vehemently disagree with this statement. However, I have to say I now agree based on experiences in beta and whatnot in the last couple years.

I run ITFs every time I play. I always advertise in chat that it will be a kill most. I usually set it to +3 or +4 depending on the team composition and may adjust after the first mission. Once the team is full, I reiterate that it is a kill most and not a speed run. Once we get inside the first mission, I once again say it’s a kill most and not a speed run. Then if anyone tries to start speeding through I just kick them. I have only ever had to kick someone once. Usually players are more than happy to do a kill most. In almost every run, when I do the first reiteration of “this is a kill most” I get a response along the lines of “Yes! Those are the best anyway!” Don’t be afraid to advertise your own groups and let people know it’s a kill most. In my experience, people enjoy them.

You are right. There is no real behavioral difference. The only difference is farming task forces/trial/radios is acceptable to others while farming AE is not. The fact that there is difference in reward/minute is a smoke screen. The same is true with task forces/story missions/and radios. Some task forces are vastly superior in reward per minute and travel time and ease to others. Some enemy groups in radios are vastly easier. It’s easy enough to get the same group every time. Same with travel time. There are always these differences regardless of the farming activity. However, the core of the argument is that some people have an idea of the right way to play the game. Farming is farming is farming. Doesn’t matter if it’s in AE or not. It is still the same behavior. Someone can solo the heather townsend arc forever to get all their incarnates unlocked/slotted and make a ton of influence. Someone else can kill a bunch of mobs in an AE fire farm. It is exactly the same behavior. Just a different venue as you described. You can invite or not invite in either mode as you want. People who prefer to solo farm aren’t suddenly going to open up team invites in other venues. They will just solo a different location. The only potential caveat being afk farming. However, there are other ways to combat this that doesn’t hurt other farming. And honestly, other than my own opinion that afk farming is bad, it really isn’t hurting anything. Yeah, people get levels, incarnates, and influence for just sitting there. I don’t like it. But in all honesty, how does someone else doing that hurt me? It doesn’t. Other than me thinking they are playing wrong. Again, this change will barely affect me. Once I get to 50 I go straight to ITFs and other group content anyway. However, I am very against removing options and trying to enforce a “correct” way of playing the game. That only serves to alienate players. But the devs are free to do as they wish for whatever reason they want.

Quoting this for emphasis and truth. I was honestly super happy and excited when reading the patch notes, especially ITF challenge modes, until I read the changes to AE. This change makes it clear that the devs have an idea of how to play the game correctly and are trying to enforce that opinion on the player base. The reason I played and continue playing homecoming is because of the freedom to play how I wanted to play. I don’t even use AE much past 50, so it doesn’t strongly affect me. I would go to task forces and itrials. However, the fun police mentality of trying to make people play the way you think they should play is a seriously concerning implication of this change. People earning vet rewards in AE hurt nobody except for those that take offense at other people for not playing how they think they should. I don’t play to give the fun police a sense of purpose. I play to have fun. Everyone should play how they like to play and not be corralled into playing “the right way”. What else is going to be changed in the future to make sure people play the right way? I have a hard time believing this will be the only manifestation of fun policing through development.

Only only voted for two: shield defense and energy aura. Those two are easily the best with SR being an honorable mention. I believe shield defense to be the best armor in the game. It’s only real weakness is that it restricts attack sets. I don’t consider lack of native healing/recovery to be a weakness. Those are easily covered. It has great defense, great ddr, great resists, + hp, and great damage. Energy aura is a very close second in my opinion. It has better healing and recovery. Has similarly good defense (sans psi) and similarly good resists. It has + rech instead of + dam. It does have a psi hole, but that can be plugged or healed. Its ddr isn’t as good, but still serviceable. The biggest advantage it has over shield is not locking out attack sets. Both are incredibly solid armors that won’t disappoint.

I use it because even on live I didn’t care for story arcs or the slog to 50. I get my enjoyment by making tons of different characters and seeing them at the max potential from my point of view. It honestly doesn’t matter why people use it. Only that people do use it, and at least part of the reason is for farming. The real answer is that people need to stop trying to dictate how others play.

This sums it up for me as well. Though I’ll go a bit further and say that I just don’t like social media in general. Though I won’t go on my soap box about that.

Shield Defense (Tanker primary) & Empathy (cor, cont, MM). It’s not like I’m going to be attacking anyone in real life. So I want the best set and forget defense as well as being able to heal myself and my family. Shield also grants cover so that’s a plus. I would want the shield to be able to be an emblem though (maybe like a watch with a shield face or something like that). If I had to actually carry around a shield though, then switch that to SR.